In reply to Player 5 (msg # 51):

I can't speak for the others, but I think for every covenant, the Beta-Sg is gonna insert their own ideas as well as those of the players involved.

If you're the SG, we can definitely have a discussion, preferably via PMs or in a thread.

In reply to Player 5 (msg # 51):

A conversation is always good. If everyone’s expectations are out in the open, it just works better.

So regarding betas and their preferred covenants.

Traveling and Redcap are as of yet unclaimed, if i didnt miss anything. If we do go with first claimed and the theory that Betas shouldnt control their own covenant the list would have to be something like this:

• Player 4 (Traveling or Redcap (really wanted Library or Border))
• Player 6 (Library)
• Player 7 (Traveling, Border or Redcap)
• Player 2 (Border or Traveling)
• Player 5 (Menagerie)
• Player 14 (Hedge)

Has Alpha SG expressed his views on Betas controlling covenant that they are part of?

Edit: Prob best to ignore this due to OOC thread update.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:00, Thu 25 Mar 2021.

Put me down for Redcap, if unavailable, Travelling.

Should we wait for the Beta SG discussion before we carve up the rest of the pie for Gamma?

Probably better to choose another, but I don't have a problem with it.

One option with extras who might choose any of a few covenants is that they might have some ideas that cross over between a couple of the covenants based on some setting thing. Another is that they might run some things for one and some for another.

If Gammas have something in mind, might as well mention it.

I feel misrepresented. But I can take care of our vagrant magi.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 58):

I offered to give you the Library...

It's not that. I opened with "I don't want to do Hedge or Redcap and this is why." Then we were going back and forth on weather the SG should be in or out of the covenant. There were two that didn't have potential SG's as residents and I said I could take the one I hadn't already said I didn't want, if that's the route we were going to take.

Now we were are decided on non residents acting as SG's which is fine and what I assumed initially. So Boarder is where all my characters live and I didn't want Hedge or Redcap. I hadn't actually given a preference for the other three.

Which is to say. Ya, I'll take the Travelers.

And Ya, we'll take you, too.

I know this is mostly a question/s for the Alpha SG, but I'm sure the answers might affect the stories we all tell.

Harco certainly seems to be for this venture, and presumably so are our parens, but do you have general thoughts about how the various tribunals, or certain covenants, might feel about it?

Some stories will likely involve Magi from other Tribunals, whether they invite a magi over to visit them, or come visiting themselves. How free are we in making up these Magi? What about using canon characters? say one of those featured in Magi of Hermes...

Seems to me that no matter what the answer be it near unanimous or pushed through by an elite few. That still leaves more than enough magi to act as antagonists or allies. Like you are only going to need like 3 or 4 magi max to use as assistance or to cause trouble.

If we for some reason use "canon" magi, we should probably discuss here so we don't double up what they are doing on a given season. I won't be using anyone with a stat block, maybe that animal guy. I'm far more likely to use one of the magi from the tribunal books that only have a name and a set of personality traits.

Good morning all, and I hope you all had a lovely Easter (however, and if even, you celebrate it).

Questions for the Alpha SG:
1/  are the ‘1219: Arrival in ...’ threads the official game start?  Or, like ‘Tribunal 0’, are they still historical-games-setting?
2/  when the the Covenant-Beta-ST’s take over for those Covenants?

My perception of this setting is that travel will be harsher on folk than in the more temperate and populate lands north of the Mediterranean.
I am considering using the following as a guide for making ‘Stamina + Survival’ rolls for my PCs when they are travelling.
It assumes ‘uneventful travel’ during the described time periods:  if I plan an encounter, the described travel time will end at that encounter, then start again afterwards.

* the general Description of travel assumes that one is travelling with appropriate supply of water and basic foods, and a wagon for shade and rest.
As always, the ST running the story is the final arbiter on these matters.
Players are always, however, welcome to politely suggest ways to mitigate travel time and the Fatigue therein.

The PCs will make their ‘Stamina + Survival’ roll at the end of the described travel time; and will take a ‘Long Term Fatigue’ for each point they fall short of the Ease Factor.
For example:
~ a weeks travel along well paved/supplied roads, with adequate supplies = Ease Factor 12.  A character with Stam+Surv of +5 will likely make this without much Long Term Fatigue … as they well rest each night, mitigating most of the fatigue accumulated that day.
~ several days travel, through the unforgiving desert, with no supplies = Ease Factor 21.  Most characters, if they survive, are likely to be extremely weak and fatigued (and sunburned) by the end of it.



I am seeking the advice of the Alpha and my fellow Beta ST’s on this.
Please offer your advice on how that sounds.  It is a guide that I intend to use, and not unwaveringly set in stone … but I’d like your general thoughts before I start implementing it.

So, is this just for like dieing of exposure? Not other survival stuff like finding food and shelter?

Like for exposure, you don't really even need a roll for a day without there being harsh conditions.

The Survival skill is, of course, about "Finding food, water, shelter, a direct route, and relative safety in the wilderness (a very dangerous place in Mythic Europe). This Ability covers such mundane tasks as building a fire and cooking food without implements".

And I want to be able to gauge with a quick roll, how any given character will fare on/after a journey ... dependant on a Survival skill roll they make for that journey.

 A guide and mechanical roll that I can make to be able to say, "At the end of your journey, you are feeling ..."

Does that make sense?
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:37, Sat 10 Apr 2021.

In reply to Beta-SG The Aerie (msg # 67):

I think the difficulty is too harsh, though I can see that it would be harsher on most character who aren't natives to such a harsh climate.

I'd suggest lowering the difficulty by 3, and add a +1-3 depending on where a person is from, and have that drop the longer they spend here, as long as they are not lab-bound.

For example, Qais should be better adapted to these conditions than a Magi who just came off the Rhine. So Qais might have +1, or even +0, while the Rhine Magi might have +3.

That is my take on it.

In reply to Player 6 (msg # 68):

I agree with Player 6's suggestions. I would also suggest the following mitigating factors:

-Traveling with a caravan subtracts from the difficulty (variable depending on caravan size).
-A native guide subtracts his Area Lore from the difficulty, and/or
Area Lore of the traveler subtracts from the difficulty.
-Proper clothing subtracts 1-2 from the difficulty.
-Mode of travel subtracts from the difficulty. By appropriate riding animal -1, flight -2, at night in the desert -1 (considering appropriate place to rest during the heat of the day), other modes of travel considered in difficulty.

So traveling as natives do is arduous, but not impossible. Deciding to strike out on your own, or being trapped alone, is going to be difficult. Alone, unsupplied, in an area you don't know? Dead without magical aid, and even magic might not be enough.

Are you using "difficulty" to refer to a +3 EF?

I really don't like it being based on origin. There is no mechanical support for that elsewhere in the game and it is fairly lilly that some of us will be living here for multiple muggle lifetimes. An alexandrian scholar is going to have no better chance surviving in the desert than a parisian scholar.

If you are from the desert you should have a specialty in deserts, because that's where you are from.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 70):

As I said, the increased difficulty would lessen with time. And an Alexandrian Scholar would be more accustomed to the heat of day and the cold of night. Much more than a Magi from the Rhine, or England.

Is there a rules precedent? no. But Beta-GM Aerie did want to simulate how harsh life is.

Survival rolls should only be made if we are trying to live off the land. Travelling through the desert is hardly pleasant, but shouldn't be risky and dangerous if supplied. Certainly, if we are hit by a sandstorm or other problem we will have to adapt. If we get lost, and supplies run low, yes, then we make survival rolls.

The magi of the Aerie can all shapeshift to birds. I'm assuming that if we stay in bird form, we only need to eat commensurate with a two pound bird, rather than a 160 pound adult male.

Which is a lot less of a difference than you would think. But also for a lot less time.



Ah yes the heat of day and the cold of night. Since they are at all experienced with any of it when they grew up living in the city. Take my ass from Michigan and my buddy from texas and throw us in the desert or the wood in either of our states and we are both screwed because we are untrained suburbanites. A specialty is the easiest way to say you are accustomed to the environment. The house rule makes it plausible that you could get used to living in your new environment and get rust living in your old one. All handled.

Would it be helpful to have a little table on the wiki with what covenant is Beta'd by whom?

From reading this thread, I'm not really clear on who has a beta SG, who wants one, or what their scope is. The redcap thread has already basically petered out waiting on SG answers, and I'd like to get a move on.

The Alexandria thread seems to have the right idea for keeping moving without SG involvement, but for everyone else it might be good to have some clarity.

I myself am not really comfortable "claiming" a group, but I posted a little "SG bio" upthread if any group wants to ask me to help run their covenant!
This message was last edited by a game editor at 02:21, Sun 11 Apr 2021.

Pretty sure it's decided but the groups haven't been passed off to us yet.

Oh, Qais has spent the point to represent such.   I would expect him to be one of the true survivors in these harsh lands.  But if we (the GMs) are just going to hand-wave away the harshness of travel in these lands, I think that his point expenditure is diminished.


I also see the value in 6's suggestions.  My first thoughts are:
- this is just a guide I would use ... and if I find it too harsh, I'll simply mod the effects on the spot.  But I don't want to, as I say above, hand-wave away an essential element of THIS game setting that we have chosen.
- I don't see want a LOT of modifiers.  Like I say, I am willing to listen to PC suggestions and IC attempts to mitigate the effects of  this hostile land.
- This 'Survival' guideline for travel will dictate how well a character can do things like find 'appropriate place to rest during the heat of the day', and wear 'proper clothing', etc.   The PC's who've paid the points for high, Desert-spec'ed Survival skills ought to survive these treks much better than others.
- I do NOT intend to kill players during a downtime trek.   What I want is to be able to say, "after several days journey, Qais is still in good health, but John is obviously struggling, and is going to need a few nights rest to overcome the Long-Term Fatigue of this arduous journey".


See, I don't see 'just being a bird' giving a PC immunity to heat stroke, and need for hydration, etc.
That said, I'd happily agree that a bird could fly in 'a few days' what it would take another PC 'a weeks journey' overland to do. And that would affect the roll.   But birds die from this harsh land also.

And, as I've said, as a GM I don't mind of PCs come up with all kinds of strategies as a player: if their character doesn't have the skill to represent (including hunt, or survive) then the character shouldn't be allowed to just ignore a threat.