Could we actually give each covenant its own page(s), instead of a full link tree on the front page of the game wiki?

I'll do a mockup for the Redcap Tribunal (name still being settled on I think).


EDIT: Are we going to be following the mundane income rules for covenants, tracking income streams and so on? I think it was mentioned that we're not going with the extended book resonances rules and so on from Covenants? Sorry if I missed that discussion earlier.

My preference would be to... not. Have mundane resource management be a story for the interested, but it's typically pretty easy for magic to obviate mundane resource acquisition unless there's a political or ethical question involved, in which case the bean counting doesn't really add interest anyways. You can just say "We need more money to keep our covenfolk, how will we get it" without needing to known down to the mythic pound what the shortfall is.

Also, what is the power level involved for BP on covenants, for buying libraries and so on. You provided some rules for boons/hooks and maximum vis sources, but not BP. I would assume spring, low power?
This message was last edited by the player at 19:20, Thu 18 Mar 2021.

We are not using BP at all. Books and other stuff is purchased with the pvf system discussed in Character Gen (how much you get) and Hermetic Price list on the wiki. Each covenant will have 15p/year locally available vis sources that will be found relatively quickly and easily and, far as I am aware, without an adventure. We have base labs. Our basic income sources will be relatively easy to set up initially requiring minimal narrative action (least as I understand it). Unless the site has buildings there will be no buildings on the site at the time we arrive.

I like Player 2's suggestion of giving each covenant its own page on the wiki rather than a link tree on the front page.

Ya, the PFV took the place of the BP along with the static values for some of the other variables. If you don't want to have big fancy labs, big fancy armies, big fancy scribe farms then don't track your MP and live off your normal income. If you do want to do something exceptional that takes MP then that is the choice you have.

I suggested not using resonances but I think it was shut down in favor of everything being "in" since there are so many players and GM's.

About the only way to search this site is to click the "All" button for pages and then do a Ctrl-F

I could move each covenant to its own page. Hopefully that won't break the links. I don't have folder-type access, so I just have to hope it's all essentially in a single folder. The thing I really like about the one page is being able to find where a character is instead of having to search about through each covenant. I can just do a find with someone's name and see what covenant and what role in the covenant. But if that's not of value, we can move the covenants to their own pages.

I think the other questions were answered.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 754):

We could list the main characters on the front page under each covenant. Grogs anf covenfolk this seems less important.

Oh, how are we handling grogs? Do we each play the grogs we made or will they be available for others to play as needed/interesting?

The P.V.F. math is... funky.

It also means we (the players) need to coordinate resources for each covenant... and that more experienced and established magi have less to bring to the table. That seems backwards, am I missing something? I read that section and thought it was just for personal equipment and so on, not as a stand-in for group covenant design.

In reply to Player 2 (msg # 757):

My sense of it is that if there wasn't a trade-off, there'd be no reason not to take the extra couple years post gauntlet.  As it is, you can choose stuff (including resources relevant to covenant founding), or you can choose xp.  Given the range of choices made, seems reasonably balanced.

FMB

Funky but fair. It is a game after all. I expect most of the covenants were discussing what books they were bringing among themselves.

In reply to Player 2 (msg # 757):

Different groups did it differently. The hedge group pooled all the pvf and discussed what we needed and wanted as a group while the two other covenants where I saw some of their creation work did it by choosing what those characters wanted and then discussing if there was overlap or some particular thing seemed necessary. Both seem acceptable methods but some level of coordination is necessary.

Are there any covenants who would be interested in taking in a scholar/librarian companion and his linguist/translator grog friend?

Javan is a reasonably competent scholar/librarian/scribe who can serve as a lab assistant when needed. He can fight but isn't great at it. Due to a recent injury, he is mute and his companion Sirena acts as his voice when needed.

Be aware that his virtues and flaws include Blood of the Nephilim and Supernatural Nuisance. His writing has a base quality of 14. He is a non-practicing Jew if that matters to your covenant.

The Alexandria one seems fitting. Hedge covenant is very happy to have them however, espically since we have no companions at the moment. And have many magi interested in languages and translations from both Arabic and classic Greek.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:49, Fri 19 Mar 2021.

Are you ready to live in the deep desert, very distant from civilization? It will be a while before you'll see new works. We can always use a lab assistant.

I shall double check with the Alexandran Library, my fellow players there.  I will say that Vespera would definitely pursue his knowledge and skill, since the Tremere love drafting the unwanted and making them feel wanted.

While Alexandria was my initial thought, the Hedge covenant could work as well. Sorry, but the deep desert isn't for him.

And while with Magic Theory 4, he can serve as a lab assistant, it would really be a waste of his actual abilities. Javan has served the Order for over a hundred years. During that time he has been a lab assistant for maybe a total of five years.

He would like to have the time and resources to make flawless translations of Aristotle's works into Latin. He could also write a few useful books of his own. A couple of Quality 14 Tractatus on Magic Theory could be useful to most covenants.

In reply to Player 17 (msg # 765):

You might be interested in the Tunis / Mercere covenant house.  Likely to be a fair bit of traffic, good access to Europe, lots of space, and a viable distribution / trade hub for whatever you generate.  Also, we have cookies.

FMB

In reply to Player 17 (msg # 765):

While we dont have the allure of some 40,000 burned books. We hope to have elemtantal philosopher, leanred magicians and other wise men living at our covenant, sponsor their research while learning about them at the same time.

Roman ruins and ghost might be an interesting pull as well. And while not as urban as some of the others, the City of Bridge is closeby so sending letters and getting supplies wont be an issue.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:28, Fri 19 Mar 2021.

Replacing Covenant BP with PvF leaves you with... BP rules, but players are allowed to unilaterally opt out of putting any resources into the group aspect, while still benefiting from whatever is provided. It's not posed that way, and the mechanism is a bit obscured, but this is what happens following the guidelines presented. I don't think it's really a great choice.

Of note, it's probably a bad idea for anyone to take more than one year out of gauntlet, because the math is pretty bad in terms of what you could buy with that versus a measly extra 30xp. Even if it makes some sense for your character, you're really eating into your covenant's already tight starting BP.

It's probably fine as long as everyone in the covenant is more or less on the same page with how much pvf they have, and just pretending they're working with BP. I'm going to slightly revise my magus and knock a year off, possibly change a virtue or two.

Also in the Mercer House, Klaudios REALLY REALLY wants to do this specific thing, and have translations of all of the ancient greek works back out of arabic. Sending letters promising great new academic texts to universities in Italy, there's a whole trade network being set up...

Oh, near Constantine, the City of Bridges? That is interesting.

A Roman ruin? Eh, not exactly uncommon.

A ghost? That is interesting.

Learned Magician? Now you're talking.

How do they sign up?

P2 If we ever wanted to get out ov covenant creation it was the only real choice.

In reply to Player 17 (msg # 770):

Just ask Alpha SG to add them to group H and promise to cherish the various hedge magician running around.

Unless some sort of special dispensation was made, I do not believe he can be a lab assistant without the Failed Apprentice virtue and that makes no sense for a Blood of the Nephilim character since they could never have had the gift. He could teach apprentices or pre-apprentices the basics of Magic Theory and write a couple Tractatus though. He may also copy texts on arts without messing them up.

Also, regarding work, a companion or grog that works for the covenant and is supported by it only offers two seasons of work to the covenant per year, the other two seasons are their own to decide what to do with.

There are a ton of people building book- and library-focused covenants, it seems. Hmmm.

Having conferred with my other covenant mates, the Library being built at Alexandria is going to be delightfully interested in housing the wandering Javan, if he has an interest in joining our desire to build the greatest library outside of Durenmar.

Surprising nobody, however, anyone who says 'I can make Q14 books' is suddenly going to be approached by a lot of people, let alone 'Q14 MT books'.  Still, I'm hoping the covenant's stated purpose for a library would have some attraction.