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15:12, 24th April 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC Discussion.

Posted by Alpha SGFor group 0
Player 17
player, 34 posts
Leander and Javan
Koray, Sirena, Zandra
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 17:18
  • msg #801

Re: Teachers

The Divine, page 34:
Blood of the Nephilim
     Major, Supernatural
     You have the blood of angels in your veins and descend from the great heroes of the Antediluvian Age, the Nephilim. Unless you take the Mythic Companion virtue, your heritage is somewhat diluted, although still significant.
     Your size is increased to +1, and this increases by +1 for every century you are alive.
     You may learn Dominion Lore during character creation without needing to take the Arcane Lore Minor Virtue.
     You age incredibly slowly, and may live for thousands of years. You need make an aging roll only once every ten years after the age of 150, and receive a –5 to Aging Rolls. You gain no benefit from Longevity Potions or any magic or supernatural power that slows or relieves Aging or Decrepitude. Once you gain your first Decrepitude Point, it becomes increasingly difficult for you to learn new things: subtract your age รท 10 from all Advancement Totals, although the Advancement Total for a season cannot drop below 1.
     Due to your great size, you must eat vast amounts of food (equal to what three normal people would eat in a day), and have the Minor Personality Flaw Greedy. If you go without food for even a single day you fall into a deep slumber, a kind of supernatural hibernation. You will starve to death in (2 + your Divine Might) days unless you are fed your own body-weight in food. (Note that this Virtue does not itself grant Divine Might; see Strong Angelic Heritage, below.) After awakening, you suffer a number of lost Long Term Fatigue Levels equal to the number of days you went without food.
     You may not take The Gift or True Faith, Hermetic Virtues or Flaws, Methods or Powers, Virtues such as Giant, Mythic, or Faerie Blood, Flaws such as Age Quickly or Lycanthrope, or Virtues or Flaws that affect your size.
     Magi and Grogs may not take this virtue.

Take a look at the bolded text in the fourth paragraph.
Player 14
player, 33 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 17:20
  • msg #802

Re: Teachers

Ouch
Player 17
player, 35 posts
Leander and Javan
Koray, Sirena, Zandra
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 17:35
  • msg #803

Re: Teachers

Yep, if he gets a bad roll at 150, his advancement is basically done. But he could still spend time writing down what he knows. And he is Driven to share his knowledge.
Player 17
player, 36 posts
Leander and Javan
Koray, Sirena, Zandra
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 17:48
  • msg #804

Re: Teachers

For long-term viability, I should have gone with Strong Faerie Blood and Unaging. And to avoid Warping in a strong Magic Aura, I could have given him a Supernatural virtue tied to the Magic Domain.

Really, I should drop his Martial Abilities. I could make him younger and recover a minor virtue. He has Single Weapon 7 and Thrown Weapon 3, dropping those would give him 175 experience back. I could drop his age to 139 and still have 25 experience to put somewhere else.
Player 4
player, 128 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 18:05
  • msg #805

Re: Teachers

He explicitly can't take SFB and Unageing won't help. He still has the Point and stops going.

He will never have very many stat losses. He's just gaining a -1 every time he has to roll so he will roll bad and die just like anyone else.

And yes. It should be /100 for the ageing roll to get the effect they wanted. They just didn't write it or errata it so it's not.

EDIT: If he does accumulate stat losses then magi can repair them.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:11, Fri 19 Mar 2021.
Player 17
player, 37 posts
Leander and Javan
Koray, Sirena, Zandra
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 18:10
  • msg #806

Re: Teachers

Yeah, what I meant was take Strong Faerie Blood and Unaging instead of Blood of the Nephilim.
Player 4
player, 129 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 18:14
  • msg #807

Re: Teachers

Player 17:
Yeah, what I meant was take Strong Faerie Blood and Unaging instead of Blood of the Nephilim.

Ya, SFB gets you a few years. Really any Unageing with a Supernatural Ability so that they can get full strength longevity rituals will do fine. Out last the magus that made the ritual in all likely hood.

Honestly the Mercere head honcho should have been a 500 year old Redcap with like 6 major flaws. No way they couldn't get a top of the line LR in that position.
Player 7
player, 21 posts
M: Macrinus
C: Guenter
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 19:16
  • msg #808

Aging

Player 4:
Honestly the Mercere head honcho should have been a 500 year old Redcap with like 6 major flaws. No way they couldn't get a top of the line LR in that position.

I can see a 200 year old redcap. He's likely to have some Supernatural Virtue derived from the Magical Realm, so he gets the preferred Aging ritual (-1 to roll for every 5 points in Lab Total, rather than 10)

The issue is creation of the Longevity Ritual. You need a point in Magic Theory for every 10 years of age for the recepient.  There just aren't many magi with over a 12 in Magic Theory, so I assume that people aged 120+ have had their last ritual formulation.

And it could be really good, but every year you must roll. It's even money that you'll get two successive one's on the roll within 70 years. You'll likely get a Crisis when that happens, which may not kill you, but will certainly give you Decrepitude. Yes, the ritual can be recast, but eventually it won't be good enough.
Player 4
player, 130 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 19:22
  • msg #809

Aging

Pretty sure that's not how it works, Longevity Rituals aren't actually rituals, investing the vis in the ritual isn't a lab activity so neither of the normal vis limits apply.
Player 13
player, 147 posts
M: Salma ex Misc
C: Qais, redcap
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 19:30
  • msg #810

Aging

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 809):

My understanding is it's a lab activity the first time that ritual is created and limited by the standard vis use in the lab rules but you can keep using a good ritual just upping the vis requirement due to aging but providing the same bonus. Eventually the negatives from age will outweigh the bonuses because no one in the world can design a more powerful one for that person. The other side though is that at a certain point vis limits are going to be too onerous as well, even using the arts of the one who performs the ritual as the vis limit is going to get to relatively impossible levels. Not to mention that deciding to spend 60 pawns on a ritual that likely won't last very long seems a bit overboard to me.
Player 15
player, 56 posts
Vespera of Tremere
Kelemen Ronol
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 19:55
  • msg #811

Re: Teachers

Player 17:
Yeah, what I meant was take Strong Faerie Blood and Unaging instead of Blood of the Nephilim.


It's certainly cleaner to be a faerie than a nephilim, but I am much more interested in your character this way. Both IC and OOC.

With regards to language teachers, I had to a few. For Good Teacher as a virtue, I avoid giving it to grogs because it feels cheap. Vespera's talking cat has teaching 3 and Com 2, and our scholar/bookbinder has teaching 3 and Com 0(high Com didn't make sense for the character)
Player 4
player, 131 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 19:59
  • msg #812

Re: Aging

Player 13:
In reply to Player 4 (msg # 809):

My understanding is it's a lab activity the first time that ritual is created and limited by the standard vis use in the lab rules but you can keep using a good ritual just upping the vis requirement due to aging but providing the same bonus. Eventually the negatives from age will outweigh the bonuses because no one in the world can design a more powerful one for that person. The other side though is that at a certain point vis limits are going to be too onerous as well, even using the arts of the one who performs the ritual as the vis limit is going to get to relatively impossible levels. Not to mention that deciding to spend 60 pawns on a ritual that likely won't last very long seems a bit overboard to me.

That was my interpretation as well.

But my example of a very 'powerful' redcap could have gotten the best of the best with tons of assistance to get a -50 LR or something. Similarly they have control of the whole vis trade so they could afford to spend 60 vis, potentially per year, to keep it running.

But at that point it would be better to just find something infernal to handle it. You are going to hell for your greed at that point anyway.
Player 6
player, 70 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 20:22
  • msg #813

Re: Aging

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 812):

Remember that a -50 LR means someone has to have a Lab Total of 246-250 on Creo Corpus. That's gonna be a legendary Magus. Since he'll need his Creo and Corpus to be around 100 each, plus a legendary Magic Theory, high Int, a Creo Corpus maximized lab, and an awesome Familiar with high MT.

That might be something a player Magus could strive for, but is unlikely to just happen in a saga, in my opinion.
Player 8
player, 42 posts
Jaegar of Merinita
Giovanni the Redcap
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 20:54
  • msg #814

Re: Aging

In reply to Player 6 (msg # 813):

In another saga my mage has a -22 LR, and that took the assistance of several, with a high leadership Creo Corpus Specialist, experimentation, and a specialized lab. We considered that about the outer limits for a specialist less than 50 years old. It also took some dealing to get the group together to do it.

Just saying, having only one specialist do it isn't going to hit a -50 LR. But it is possible, just unlikely, to put together a substantial LR. (Definitely needed stories of gathering the necessary resources.)
Alpha SG
GM, 309 posts
General rules
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 21:00
  • msg #815

Re: Teachers

Giovanni of Mercere:
Who do we have that could act as a teacher of Latin for any aspiring writers, mage or mundane, to get their score in Latin up to 5 quickly? (and who has the time and willingness to do it?)

For that matter, what other mundane skills do we have good teachers for, who could teach classes? Getting grogs and companions up to speed on Latin, AL, Philosophy, MT, and Scribe could only help everyone.

There are a fair number of excellent teachers scattered around. Getting great teaching shouldn't be hard. You'll just have to go to an appropriate covenant and pay whatever they're demanding.

Player 6:
He has the appropriate Virtue to learn Academic Abilities, and was trained at a covenant. But if our Alpha SG rules otherwise, I'd drop that, and spend the 30 xp allocated to it elsewhere.

It's an Academic Ability, so access to those allows it.

In reply to Player 7 (msg # 808):
In reply to Player 4 (msg # 809):
In reply to Player 13 (msg # 810):

The LR is a lab activity when first done. Refreshing a failed LR later is not a lab activity. So when creating it you do have MT limits. But that can be increased, too. Faerie Magic, if using all Faerie-tainted vis, will allow you to use more. Same with Chthonic Magic, but with Infernally-tainted vis. Imbued with the Spirit of Corpus/Vim (or maybe another), allows you to get further, as well. For those with the appropriate Virtues, making an LR for someone 100 years old isn't much of an issue if they have the vis. Difficulties really show up more in the 140ish ballpark for them, though Faerie Magic plus Imbued with the Spirit of Corpus/Vim and some Puissant could handle 200ish pretty easily, assuming you can actually find that much Faerie-tainted vis of the appropriate types. Still, best to do it really, really well when you're not that old and keep refreshing it. Rack up the favors so you can get several people acting as laboratory assistants when you get your LR, and 200+ can be pulled off without those crazy Arts. There are some other tricks, but I think I've successfully curbed them.
Alpha SG
GM, 310 posts
General rules
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 21:04
  • msg #816

Re: Aging

In reply to Player 8 (msg # 814):

Yes, that sounds a lot like my Becoming lab total of 210+. I did that something like 20 years out of gauntlet. That was a combo of good teaching and good leadership and a CrMe specialization as well as excellent Magic Theory. Find assistants. Earn favors by boosting their Intelligence (and other things). Teach them all Magic Theory. Profit a lot while doing so as well. Eventually you have a cluster of assistants who can each give you +15ish for a season. That can be 100 points right there. Throw in +20 for a lab and +20 for your own Int+MT+Aura, and you're at 140 before even counting Arts.
Player 14
player, 34 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 21:09
  • msg #817

Re: Aging

Are we going to break out to separate rp threads for the covenant groups soon?  And figure out Beta-SG duties?
Alpha SG
GM, 311 posts
General rules
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 21:17
  • msg #818

Re: Aging

Player 14:
Are we going to break out to separate rp threads for the covenant groups soon?  And figure out Beta-SG duties?

Yes, I think we need to do that now. We can start with those as RP threads breaking off from the larger tribunal grouping. Then we can add companions as they connect. I should start new threads for actual arrival in Africa.

I'm going to leave the tribunal thread open as a broader RP thing since they'll all be in the same spot for a couple days. That can be for used by magi socializing with magi of other covenants, for example.
Player 2
player, 27 posts
Plays: Klaudios
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 22:34
  • msg #819

Re: Aging

Will we potentially have a season or two in Harco or the surroundings before traveling off? Notably if we want to spend a season in a (basic?) lab to use one of our lab texts or the like.
Player 5
player, 8 posts
Andre ex Miscellanea
Marius Lazarescu
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 22:55
  • msg #820

Re: Aging

Harco might be big, but I dunno how many ‘spare, basic labs’ they have lying around behind their proverbial couch.
Longinus ex Merinita
Magus, 88 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 22:56
  • msg #821

Re: Aging

In reply to Player 5 (msg # 820):

I am pretty sure Hacro has a rather poor aura as well.
Andre ex Miscellanea
Magus, 51 posts
Warrior, Vagabond
'Hedge Wizard'
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 22:57
  • msg #822

Re: Aging

After leaving Harco, Andre intends to head into Africa via the western regions ... Algeria, etc.
If any groups are headed that way, he’d be happy to join up with that travel.  He’s very strong, and can help with the heavy lifting.
Player 4
player, 132 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 23:23
  • msg #823

Re: Aging

I hate that I have to call out every instance of hyperbole to you guys. With a specialist it is relatively easy for a magus to hit Twilight before old age so a Supernatural Un-Gifted can live longer.

Alpha SG:
In reply to Player 8 (msg # 814):

Yes, that sounds a lot like my Becoming lab total of 210+. I did that something like 20 years out of gauntlet. That was a combo of good teaching and good leadership and a CrMe specialization as well as excellent Magic Theory. Find assistants. Earn favors by boosting their Intelligence (and other things). Teach them all Magic Theory. Profit a lot while doing so as well. Eventually you have a cluster of assistants who can each give you +15ish for a season. That can be 100 points right there. Throw in +20 for a lab and +20 for your own Int+MT+Aura, and you're at 140 before even counting Arts.

Second, ya, all this B.S. Also no one even considered taking a magic focus into account. Even the guys in MoH can hit 60 with just arts if they had a Focus. Also depends a bit on how familiars count on assistance. Does someone else automatically bring their familiar with them or does it count as a second slot for leadership or can they not help at all if they aren't your's?

Strictly speaking we probably have some place to stay for the year before we move to Africa? Weather it is Harco or not seems immaterial.
Zahir, the Smith
Companion, 10 posts
Fri 19 Mar 2021
at 23:43
  • msg #824

Re: Aging

All this talk makes me really mad I'm not a Neph. Of being huge justifies adding strength then it adds straight to smithing and I have useful things I can do every day from the time I gain a single Decrep until I die.
Player 7
player, 22 posts
M: Macrinus
C: Guenter
Sat 20 Mar 2021
at 00:03
  • msg #825

Re: Aging

Player 4:
Does someone else automatically bring their familiar with them or does it count as a second slot for leadership or can they not help at all if they aren't your's?

My rule is that your own familiar doesn't count, but another magus and his familiar counts as two additional helpers, for Leadership purposes. Note that a magus can always have one helper, in addition to his familiar, regardless of Leadership. So a Leadership score of 1 (without specialties) is useless, only valuable as a waypoint to being a research team leader.
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