I believe that is how my table interpreted it too. Granted half my covenant it would be better to just have their familiar help me. So we disallowed that.

Jaegar is going to walk around in North Africa, until everyone is ready to go to their new homes. (I think we have a year.) Looking for local guides, and others to join in the adventure.
He also wants to learn a new shape. The mountains are as good a place as any to study lions. A huge man with a big dog, that should be interesting...

If the internet has taught me anything it's that all giant dogs are owned by tiny women. Look up any giant breed. It's true.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 828):

But what if the dog is the owner, not the owned?

You are thinking of cats my friend. Or possibly that magic glove I've been wearing the whole time...

Is everyone settled on their companions? If not, would anyone be interested in coming to Apicem Domus? I believe all of our companions are spoken for and at other covenants. Yes, we have an aura of 6 so warping is an issue if you don’t have a magic-aligned supernatural virtue but if you do have a magic-aligned supernatural virtue (and even if you don’t if you are alright with warping) you would be most welcome. The aura is also Mentem-aligned so if your supernatural ability relates to that (such as Touched by Magic Realm) then that may be a draw as well.

I have not made a companion yet, and haven't really hit on a concept yet. I was mulling over some kind of Siren-esque person with the Inducement skill but haven't really thought it out yet.

The last year of whatever you have in your pre-start design can be fit as desired. Some have another year of apprenticeship, then they'll head to Africa. Others have years doing other things. If you spent seasons of your final year before game start in the lab, you are welcome to assume they were in a lab at Harco or wherever else is reasonable and fits your story. Lab texts picked up with p.v.f. will show up once the game starts, just as normal.

I think we were all broadly misunderstanding how the year was happening. This is all prologue. So I'm gaining my last 15 XP for apprenticeship and people that took years are taking whatever they spent that last year on?

Or is it 2 years and we are off screen in Africa? What year do we start assigning un assigned seasons? Winter 1219?

My understanding was that the Harco meeting was prologue, and we have our last year before we meet in Africa, before our seasons start. I am confused as to which season we are starting in, and whether we are meeting at our chosen covenant site, or somewhere else.
So, clarification on what year and season we are starting, and where, would be great. (The middle of the desert will take a bit longer to get to than the Redcap Covenant.)

Exactly. If we have a year of time to travel and get early set up going, I'd really like part of my set up for the covenant to be learning from a lab text for a building ritual, which requires a lab

If not, I may just arrive in Tunis, we start... I take a boat back to Europe (a trip of like two days tops) and spend the first or second season to do this, travel back... and some of the more wild covenants may still be transiting!

Does anyone know off hand if you can learn from a casting tablet? looks like no
This message was last edited by the player at 19:45, Sat 20 Mar 2021.

In reply to Klaudios Bonisagi (msg # 836):

Yeah, a Casting Tablet is a great tool to cast a Ritual you might not be able to otherwise, but when it comes to researching the spell, or even creating a more suitable version of it, it doesn't count for anything.

I assume that most of us will eventually research better AotH and such spells, but for now, a Casting Tablet is the best choice.



Regarding the game start, my assumption was that the meeting in Harco was to hash out basic details, and then each goes to finish apprenticeship, or their first/second/third year after, whatever your choice was, but we'd already spent the XP for those.
And then we start the game either embarking on the journey to our respective sites, or already there.

This was prologue, set 1 year before where we have developed the characters to. They arrive in Africa in 1 year, at the point they have been created. Everything from there is in-game advancement. Sorry for the confusion.

We'll arrive in Africa, at least roughly at our covenant sites, at the beginning of spring in one year. If you want to meet up nearby or somewhere else, you can. Starting with spring is nice since it's the first season of both the calendar year and the Ars Magica progression of seasons.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:06, Sat 20 Mar 2021.

Unless anyone with the Library Covenant objects, I would like Javan and Sirena to join them.

And what's going on with income sources. I thought it was all chill and was being hand waved as we either integrate into the local economy or bring basic labor with us. But my covenant OOC you seemed to indicate that is not the case.

Like what are the other covenants doing for cash. I was the only one who has talked about income that I remember.

I think income needs to be considered in terms of labs.  Labs are the big consumer of cash. If you want labs with a lot of customization, then you need to worry about income streams to pay for all the upgrades and outfittings. If you are ok with a basic lab, and don't want anything extravagant, then money is handwaved.

The Menagerie plans to generate an income stream, so that we can qualify for Summer covenant, and thus have better Living Conditions. It's going to be herding; in short order we'll be able to bring animals to maturity in a day.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 841):

I'd written, "As long as you get it set up over the first two years, you can figure you have the baseline over those two years." My intention was to say you are not arriving with an income source in place. But any reasonable effort to establish the income source over those first two years will provide the baseline income, and you can be considered to have that income over those two years (maybe a loan ends up paid off quickly; maybe the income steam starts quickly; maybe something else - regardless of the particulars, we'll hand wave that). Maybe a covenant's companions are doing this, maybe the magi. So long as someone establishes it, you'll have it.

Right, but is that seasons of labor? Is it on screen negotiations with natives? Off screen explanation of the less than 1 week per season of effort?

Like I assumed that I didn't need to bother picking one of the Free inhabitants perks because there would just be someone there to work the land and produce money for us.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 843):

So, if the "final starting configuration" of the covenant will have X pounds per year of income, we are allowed to start with that much income immediately - just make up some reason why it relates to our setup adventures. Other than that, we are using the full income rules from covenants??


That last part is what I (and I think others) am really wanting to know. If we aren't going to use the detailed mythic pounds yearly accounting rules in the long term, our covenant needs to change boons and hooks around. We would still have the same overview, but would just focus on slightly more interesting angles on those stories (imo).

Sorry, maybe I missed something.  Why do we need to change our boons and hooks?  And, shouldn't this be something we discuss in the covenant thread before announcing it here?

FMB

In reply to Player 16 (msg # 846):

Check the first half of the post you quoted?

 It's still really murky if we're using the RAW income rules from covenants or not. It's important to be clear on it now because it will impact covenant starting boons and hooks.

The detail of "well you can start with your full income for the first two years" may be important too. Are our covenant build choices representative of two years after starting?

In other words, if we don't have "Criminals" on our sheets but an adventure comes up that would recruit a cadre of forgers to the covenfolk... do we need to wait until we catch up to our Covenant build before we can add to it via stories, as that would throw the 7 points of boons/hooks out?

In reply to Player 2 (msg # 847):

It's really not that important at all; book-keeping minutia in general isn't, especially in a pbp online game with dozens of characters.

When we put together the Tunis covenant, we worked on the assumption that income isn't going to be a major concern.  We've been told not to take pre-existing income B/H, but also given the green light to either play out obtaining it, or have it be backstory / offscreen as we like it.  We've got B/H that address that, and we're bringing cash to rationalize a "grace period" while we set it up.  We're located near a quarry, we've got smugglers, we'll probably burn some seasons setting them up, and if we want to, we can game aspects of that out.

I'm not sure what you mean by "catch up to our covenant build"?  If we play out in game recruiting a gang of criminals, then we have a gang of criminals, whether that's reflected in our list of boons and hooks or not.  If we get hit with a comet day 2, that happens whether its in the boons and hooks or not.  B/H are a crude descriptive shorthand for the characteristics of a covenant, that's all. We're using them to sketch out ideas for locations, and a preliminary sense of what we want the covenant to be; so far, ours is is bunch of coastal caves, with a regio, a hidden harbour, a quarry, and some shady smugglers who use the harbour.

We're also trying to get the game going; overhauling the boons and hooks to get them to match up economic descriptions that have been left deliberately vague is just going to slow things down.  I don't see a need for accurate, to-the-penny accounting, I do see a need to start playing.  Klaudios wants to build a university, right?  So, let's get into it, and figure out how to make that happen.  I have a mad doctor who would love to set up shop in the uni's basement (or possibly on the roof for some Frankenstein action), and a smuggler who'd be happy to Indiana Jones some artfacts for the Uni's collection.  Let's play, and develop the covenant in game.

I agree. I don't think it's that important either... but if other players or the SG do, it's important to know that!

So the question still is, will we be expected to do the accurate accounting as in Covenants, or not? It sounds to me like the answer is yes, we will use them with the "quick start" modification mentioned above.

Are we using the covenant income rules, or not? Everyone who has replied thus far seems to have a different understanding and expectation, and every clarification sparks off further muddled responses.

If everyone has widely different expectations, that will only cause increasing difficulties later. It's not particularly important what the answer is, just that there is a clear common understanding of the expectation.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:37, Sun 21 Mar 2021.

I hadn't necessarily expected a magus's season would be used. More likely work seasons from grogs or companions or similar. And things might not really eat up a season, as they might be done here and there over those first two years. That I figured could be left up to the covenants.

I would warn people that CrFo Rituals to create wealth could be objectionable, and there are plenty of Redcaps who might do that objecting. A little bit here and there is fine. But if the plan is to finance the whole covenant off that, that goes way, way beyond 2 mythic pounds of silver per year per magus. Be warned.

As for bookkeeping, some people love it and some hate it. Let's say this: If someone in the covenant wants to do it, go for it. If not, don't bother. But if you're going to rack up the expenses (e.g. huge lab costs, hundreds of men-at-arms, etc.), then you'll need to justify it. As long as the overall size of the covenant (grogs, companions, magi, mounts, etc.) remain small enough and you don't have huge expenses, standard income is enough to cover living decently, paying Redcaps, etc. Does that work for people? I'm hoping that gives some flexibility to keep everyone happy while requiring more effort if you want to get every penny of benefits you could out of it.