It does help a bit.
According to Apprentices the average age at the start of apprenticeship is 8 years.

I usually have my characters start around 9-14

I hadn't thought about that. For that one, that makes a lot of sense. With the other one (ghosts, animate dead, and similar), it's messier; maybe Me or Co depending on what you're affecting? I'm debating that v. the standard version of Summoning.

Too bad Corpse Magic is Major. It looks fun, but it's a big investment without being Major, and so much can be handled by Hermetic magic anyway.

I would start with "duende." Here is the wikipedia page I get when I do that search on Google:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duende

In reply to Player 9 (msg # 201):


I always want to take Magister in Artibus, but then your character ends up awfully close to needing a longevity ritual.

And if you're valuable, your covenant may get one for you. My mage will be good at longevity rituals, though only OK at the start.

Regarding Skinchanger Virtue. when transformed, can the Magi be affected by Animal spells cast on him?

Other forms of summoning should not be confused with goetia. My understanding is they do not allow swapping Rego and the relevant form in the same way as goetic summoning nor is their a mastery ability associated with them. Obviously any of that can be house ruled.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:24, Fri 26 Feb 2021.

In reply to Salma ex Miscellanea (msg # 208):

I mean...the Summoning feat performed by the Terra Cult is not really that different from what standard Hermetic Magic can do. If I'm not mistaken, Tytalus contributed his knowledge of Goetic Arts to Bonisagus' theory, and Guernicus likely did the same with his earth magic.

Assuming the Summoning formula for the Terra-Cult's Summoning variant is the same as for Goetic Summoning, you could still argue that a Hermetic Magus should be able to swap out Realm Lore in that formula with his Terram Form, or summoning itself with Rego, but of course that is up to the DM. I agree that you wouldn't gain access to Goetic spell Mastery.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:39, Fri 26 Feb 2021.

Salma will happily be your pen pal.

Callen, I'm thinking of reworking Salma and while Gentle Gift is a fantastic virtue removal of a negative is not very "fun" compared to other options. I noticed you allow for the alternate Elemental Magic rules that give XP during Character Gen and I was curious if you were thinking something similar with Secondary Insight. I still might not choose that but knowing if that was the case and what the benefit at character gen is would be useful to know in deciding where to go with the character.

Ok, I tried to cut and paste to Character Description. It stripped out all formatting, and made a mess. Is there a way to do this that isn't plain text? I am assuming I am doing it wrong, considering the mess created.
If there is no possible way to use a chart or table, these are going to require complete reworking, so they aren't a mess.

In reply to Player 8 (msg # 212):

Use Bars


|This| is |a|tabel|
|Str|+1
|int|+3

Yes, by Animal or Corpus or Mentem. He needs to penetrate to claw/bit/etc. something, too.


They do have you use the same rules as Summoning. They are variants rather than something entirely different. The necromancy one is tainted as well, making it even more similar.

I agree with several that Goetic Mastery doesn't apply because they aren't Goetic.


I would be totally open to a house rule that does similar with Secondary Insight. Secondary Insight has some flavor, but it's the worst of all the Major Hermetic Virtues. That TMRE rule for Elemental Magic makes a good chunk of difference. Doing the same for Secondary Insight makes it finally palatable in my mind. It's a little trickier figuring out where the points go since it's predetermined with Elemental Magic. I'll have to think on that a little.


There are a few ways. If you have a png, gif, etc., you can post an image or a group of images. I did that with GURPS. The site accepts EZ tables as well as the more complicated BBcode tables. I think you an also have BBcode handle html if you can export it as html.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 214):

Re: Secondary Insight - Don’t think too hard about it I’m definitely  leaning more towards Flawless Magic.

OK. Tell you what: You know I'll adjust if you take it, so keep that in consideration. For now I won't bother. Then, if you do decide you'll probably take it, we'll work out the specifics.

In reply to Salma ex Miscellanea (msg # 215):

I was considering taking Secondary Insight, even before you posted your question.

Sundered Eagle they literally reference their summoning as the one from RoP:I but only for earth might so the formulae are for sure the same. The Goetic Mastery isn't that great without a Heirarchy score. I don't see a reason to disallow it, gaining the score in an ability I have no reason to level and books all belong to a secret cult to my casting total isn't worth a mastery slot. Granted that also means I don't care if I can't take it because I never would. May as well ban Secondary Insight or Sound Constitution.

I really want to get Binding if possible but in the one side bar describing the initiations available to that specific mystagogue it isn't listed so it will be between me and a GM.

Then I should come up with something... Quick estimate working off of Elemental Magic: Of the points put into Arts for character creation 50% of the points put into Techniques are added to Forms, spread evenly over at least 5 Forms, and 25% of the points put into Forms are added to Techniques, spread evenly over at least 3 Techniques.

Does that seem to be a reasonable parallel? I chose 5 and 3 because the minimum is 4 and 2, but they're likely to be spread broader.

Binding, as purely Infernal, not just Tainted, doesn't show up with anywhere near the same breadth as Summoning. RoP:tI is pretty up-front about that. But, you can still get a Familiar without it, and I've said my interpretation is that the Terrae Cult's summoning opens up some breadth of available Familiars.

In reply to Player 4 (msg # 218):

Goetic Mastery or a house ruled ability that is similar is pretty powerful, being able to add a third quick advancing art is good, even without a hierarchy score and upping one’s mastery is helpful as with summoning you will likely want Penetration as the first mastery special ability.

In reply to Alpha SG (msg # 219):

It seems reasonable

Ah, missed that parenthetical the first time through. I have too many breakthroughs on my plate already to try and figure out a was to make a magical equivalent.

Also Missed that summoning increases as an Art. But I still probably wouldn't have hardly any ranks because of source availability and the fact that only one helps me invent other useful spells.

Strictly speaking I'm part of the cult so I have a cult lore to do my own thing. Summoning is nice, especially when we don't have other grogs or livestock, but with being a Quaesitor I'll be stretched thin. InVi for investigation, ReTe for the murder make, Abilities for being a competent member of society.

In reply to Salma ex Miscellanea (msg # 221):

Yup. That's why Ceremonial Casting is so nice: add two Abilities and maybe a couple other points. Doesn't work in the heat of battle, but it is fabulous for general penetration.

Oops. I fixed the lock on the spell and effect threads. I forgot it auto-locks them when you pin them.