One correction here; the first Debt (Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt.) is with Twiddle, and we reversed it.  I'm hiding Twiddle from the Wyld Hunt, after I failed to take down the Huntsman.

For the second suggestion (Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill.), this is something I proposed earlier.  My idea was that the Big Bad Wolf can't always blow the house down, and sometimes he needs someone with a little more... finesse.

---

Workshopping Question:
You're walking the streets one average night when you hear the sounds of a commotion behind a nearby construction fence. Inside you see four toughs harassing a young man you know from around. You come up, the young man runs off. When accosted, the toughs look at you and tell you maybe you haven't heard, but this street doesn't belong to you any more. Who are they and where do they get the spine to pull a stunt like this?

These men must have come from one of two places, depending on their dress.  If they are dressed in ratty clothing, bandages and filth, they are with the Mummy who has been pushing into my territory.  It's possible they didn't get the memo that the man they're dealing with during the day is not the same creature that emerges at night.  Or perhaps they are more fanatical towards their leader.

If, instead, they dress ANY different, it's more likely that they are another Wolf Pack that is pushing into my territory one street at a time, marking the new territory.  Wolf George isn't the largest Wolf, and can be seen as something of a pushover.  He also doesn't yet have his own Pack, so his strength is limited.  This Pack knows the strength behind it, so moving in isn't such a dangerous task.  The main reason the other Wolfs haven't taken his territory is that they don't necessarily want it.  Would you?

I could take this. Twiddle may have watched humanity for centuries, but the various details still escape him. For example, someone comes up to him, telling him he is Lilith 's very good friend and has not seen her in years. He knows just enough about Lilith and her relationship with Twiddle to be convincing. Turns out, he is a fundamentalist vampire hunter, and shoots Twiddle and then tries to stake Lilith. His then showed the error of his ways by Lilith, who manages to get first aid to Twiddle. Twiddle is very sorry.

Hm. Can we flip this back or re-work it? Conceptually, that Debt is supposed to represent the fact that the Wolf runs things in their territory, but there's a big giant world out there they're not paying enough attention to. So someone is protecting them from the consequences of their own actions. So they have Debts owed to them for patrolling their borders, but owe threats for nebulous things outside them.

Could Twiddle be hiding HIM from the Wyld Hunt (told him enough Lore to evade them, provided the means to secure himself against them, etc?).

Or leave it with Lilith, which would make the Debts work out as everyone has three, except Twiddle has four and Vincent two. Which works okay.

Note that, in terms of story, George can still be keeping Twiddle safe from the Wyld Hunt. It just means he's not owed a Debt for it. Which could be the case for any number of reasons.

I was seeing it as a mutual effort, with George providing the muscle to keep them at bay.  But I like your idea.  George tried fighting them off once and failed, which caught their attention.  Now Twiddle is helping hide him from the Hunt, and the Debts he has collected could possibly used for physical protection again in the future.

In reply to George Wolfe (msg # 56):

Yeah. It's a little counter-intuitive, which makes it more fun.

Leave it to a Fae...

Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you�ve forgiven them�they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions.
This is my debt. Tessa asked me to look for the mysterious punk and he became the enemy from my 3rd debt. I still don't know if she forgave me or not.
George, am I wrong?
L.E. George has confirmed


Considering the correction, may I still keep George's 3rd debt?
L.E. Still mine


Ok. I would like to hear your ideas.


For this one we have some options:





The way I have pictured my 3rd debt was related to the mysterious punk, which Tessa asked me to look for / intimidate or something. I failed (I owe her), someone betrayed me (someone owes me), Twiddle told me about George (Twiddle is keeping my new spot hidden - I owe him) and George is offering me protection (I owe him). 4 debts in one story.

George also offered for this one, but I don't think it fits with the above story, since I'm hiding in his territory from the punk.
Tessa's idea is not bad. I'm pretty sure she would not betray me on purpose, but Oracle things (visions/powers) might have happened.
Now, if (and only if) Tessa's 3rd debt is not mine anymore, then I like Twiddle's idea. L.E The debt is still mine.

L.E. There's also the NPC option. Maybe the Veteran / Hunter (see below) betrayed me and now he's coming to ask me for help?

I think things got really mixed up and I'm no longer sure which debts I still have. L.E. All clear now

-------------------------



Since no PC is from the Mortality faction, I would love 'they' to be a Veteran or a Hunter. I think they either need help with one of their jobs or someone from their past is following them and they need me to get the job done.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:07, Fri 28 May 2021.

You're correct in regards to Tessa's Debt.  As for the protection, that still works.

Good, thank you! I will update my above message.

Okay, thank you for clarifying, that puts the Debts like this:

FAE
TESSA. Someone broke an important promise to you and swore they would make it up to you. They owe you 2 Debts.
LILITH. You are keeping something hidden for someone. They owe you a Debt.
GEORGE. You entrusted someone with a dangerous task. Ask them if they succeeded or failed. If they succeeded, you owe them a Debt. If they failed, they owe you 2 Debts.

ORACLE
TWIDDLE. Someone helps decipher your visions with unique insights. You owe them 2 Debts.
VINCENT. You had a dark vision about someone, but gave bad guidance. You owe them a Debt.
LILITH. Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you’ve forgiven them—they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions.

VAMP
TWIDDLE. Someone makes sure you get fed regularly. You owe them 2 Debts.
TESSA. Someone relies on you for their fix. They owe you a Debt
OPEN. (GEORGE?) Someone recently sold you out to one of your enemies. You avoided the worst of their attacks, but your betrayer owes you a Debt.

WOLF
TWIDDLE. Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt.
TESSA. Someone hired you for a job and you fucked it up. You owe them 2 Debts.
LILITH (VINCENT?). Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection. They owe you a Debt.

REVENANT
TWIDDLE. Someone mourned your death, truly and deeply. You owe them a Debt.
LILITH. Someone tried to get justice for your murder, but failed to lay your soul to rest. They owe you a Debt.
GEORGE. Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. They owe you two Debts.

And the count is:
Tessa - 3
George - 2
Lilith - 4
Twiddle - 4
Vincent - 1
Open - 1

SUGGESTION
Lilith: if you want to keep George's 3rd Debt, I won't tell you no. However, my suggestion is that maybe George is the one that sold you out. An investigation lead her into George's territory and, since she was an outsider, when some other outsiders came asking about her, he was like "She's over there it's none of my business." Later, he realized he did wrong, and invited Lilith to stay in his territory, under his protection, as recompense? Or something along those lines. And then we can give George's 3rd Debt to Vincent.

That would put the count at:
Tessa - 3
George - 3
Lilith - 3
Twiddle - 4
Vincent - 2
Open - 0

And I think everyone would have at least one link with everyone else. Which is as good as it gets.

Lilith/George: What do you think?

Ok, but I think Lilith would not move to George's territory, as she does not like the place. George owes me and I will collect later.
In this case, from whom is Twiddle hiding me and where? It would mean to also change the story of my debt to Twiddle.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 63):

Doesn't Lilith live there in this current version? All I'm suggesting is that, instead of Lilith owing a Debt for living in George's territory and benefitting from his protection, she lives there and benefits but doesn't owe him a Debt.

This is mostly a mechanical change. I don't think the story needs to change much.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 63):

After Twiddle was shot when he stupidly lead a vampire hunter to your home, he most likely showed you where to have an apartment in the city. It could be anywhere, but Twiddle can sense the lay lines. As a result, those lines could be altered slightly to bypass most people's notice while you are living in a location for a regular period of time. It's not invisibility, but people forget where you live as if it slips their minds. Even technology gets a 'error' when trying to find that location. It's most likely the same method Twiddle uses to stay off the cop's radar.

Needless to say, its not something that can effect PCs, or important or powerful NPCs. But it will keep people like your average vampire hunter and low level hostile vamps outta your hair.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:05, Fri 28 May 2021.

LOVE IT!!! Then Lilith is not in the slums. Lilith hates that place, and the smell of the wolves.

I will update my debt list a bit later, on the Debts thread. I think I'm all set for now.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 66):

Do you want Twiddle owing you a debt for 'betraying' you out of sheer ignorance?

In order to work out not living in George's territory, George could be protecting someone you care about in the slum area. They are too poor to live uptown, but with your protection and George's nobody messes with them.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:14, Fri 28 May 2021.

It's fine. George has betrayed me to someone (mysterious punk or idk).
You are keeping my safe location hidden (from most of people and low power non-humans). I have two places. One is my office which I'm no longer visiting and I have a second place (like my own condo/apartment) where I'm hiding now. Tessa knows my location since she comes to make both of us happy when needed.

'Little Bit', gang banger and former childhood friend of Omar owes money. He borrowed from Bloodgrill, a gangster known for running people over when they fail to make good on thier Debts. Each time with a diffent car and a diffent driver.

Twiddle goes to see Bloodgrill, and manages to trick him into offering Twiddle a debt. Then he can use the fae magic on him freely. Bloodgrill starts to have terrifying hallucinations, which Twiddle suggests could last.

The Fae cannot lie...but they dont have to play fair ether. Besides, now that Twiddle has a human body, lying is possible but comes with a cost.

In any case, Bloodgrill forgives the debt on Little Bit, and is unlikely to try anything due to fear. He may have a grudge against Twiddle however...
This message was last edited by the player at 16:12, Tue 01 June 2021.

So I'd like to say these are four people at the mid-level who represent the various factions. They work together to manipulate situations to their own mutual financial advantage, a pursuit which has benefited each of them greatly.

The mortal representative among them brought something with him--a goat-legged, bug-faced creature that has taken to living in his spirit, and its parasitic offspring. In the vision, Tessa can see this creature embedded, as it were, in the chest cavity, although none of his associates seem to notice.

As the meeting draws on, the creature vomits out its offspring, which Tessa perceives as motes of variegated light. The motes of light perforate the faces of the attendees, wiping their faces and identities from Tessa's vision (she can't remember them distinctly following the end of the vision).

Tessa doesn't know what the motes/creatures do, but she can see that they're attaching to them, and she can see the dark welling up under the perforations, so she knows that they're affecting them negatively. The darkness welling up spreads out, smoke-like, and leaves oily impressions everywhere which seem to form letters communicating incoherent and violent messages to Tessa.

That's my idea. :)

I have this:

THE VAMP’S WEB
When someone comes to you to ask for a favor, look for advice/info, or
threaten your interests, they enter your web and owe you a Debt. When
someone is in your web, you gain the following when dealing with them:
• Get +1 ongoing to lend a hand or get in the way of their efforts
• Add this question to figure someone out: “What is your character’s
true hunger?”
At the start of a session, choose someone in your web and learn a secret
about them that they’d rather keep buried.
They leave your web only when they no longer owe you a Debt.

Tessa is in my web. I would like to know a secret about her.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:11, Mon 07 June 2021.

Ooh, let me know what you think of this one (which I'm going to leave as a PM because, hey, secret!):

That sounds really good! Thank you!
This message was last edited by the player at 08:57, Tue 08 June 2021.

PM

Man...just when I felt like I was getting up to speed...

Anyhow, I'm back...still a little sporadic as I try to settle into a rhythm with all the new responsibilities this summer, but ready to try and catch up a bit.

I'm sure I've missed a few points earlier in the thread...but I think owing George a Debt for sheltering Vincent would fit well.  The church that Vincent died in could be in George's territory...with it having been desecrated, and in the slums, I could see it being left vacant after the two murders...maybe occasionally occupied by squatters whose activities drew George's wrath, until Vincent came along.  George probably didn't know him in his first life...but something about him just seemed to belong in that church...and he's not doing anything untoward (at least, not in the church), so George not only tolerates his presence there, he relies on it to keep unsavory types from trying to claim the church as home...?

Oh, I like that!  The Church is in my territory, but not necessarily the crowd Vincent used to associate with.  One of the issues with my territory is that it is plagued by a supernatural or mystical presence, is it possible that that has something to do with you?  Or you have something to do with it?  This might be something that the GM could come up with.

We've already established that George is a little Wolf in a big world, and there are things out there he doesn't understand, such as Fae shenanigans.  Perhaps some of the afterlife and supernatural vengeance escapes him, and Vincent is a resource for that.  Also, George isn't nearly as terrifying during the day.  Plenty of reasons he has come to rely on you!

Well...Vincent died as part of some kind of ritual that desecrated the church...could easily be that the guys performing the ritual had some kind of supernatural agenda, or aid, or something of the sort, which is the source of your problem.

The weird thing may be, that isn't necessarily what brought Vincent back.  It would work out really well if it was...but he was called back by someone else's cry for vengeance, not his own.  It's up to our esteemed GM to decide whether our problems conveniently align, or if this is basically some kind of side-quest for Vincent, to potentially distract him from his true purpose...