This is where we'll talk about the characters and Debts and sort out the initial group dynamics.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:01, Wed 05 May 2021.

Debts as of now:

Someone broke a promise to you, and now owes you 2 debts.

You are keeping someone hidden for someone else. They owe you a debt.

You asked someone for a service. If they succeeded, you owe them a debt. Failed, they owe you 2 debts.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:59, Fri 21 May 2021.

So when we're talking about characters, there are two main things we want to think about:
1. Goals. Everyone should have at least one strong goal. Something specific and important they want to get done as soon as possible, and that gives them something important to do in the first scene (I'm not saying we'll do that in the first scene, but hitting the ground with somewhere to go makes a big difference in terms of momentum).

2. Look for places and ways where your character's goals or themes or conflicts or story can cross other players'. If you're tracking down a drug lord, and someone else is tracking down a union boss, maybe make that person the same person.

I'll be keeping an eye out for both of these things as we go along as well, but the more eyes the better.

Currently the main sources of conflict in the City are:
-The streets are no longer safe. It's possible that your physical location is either filled with chaotic street violence, or perhaps has been seized by someone in the wake of the collapse of the Sulejmani Family. This would be a good link for any PC's who live close to each other.

-A large, organized group of Wizards and Oracles have seized control of the economy. This is unprecedented in Bay City, where historically arcane groups are small, insular, isolated, and spend all their time arguing among each other. It's possible that something of yours in the 'mundane world' (job, house, savings) have been threatened or destroyed as a result of one of their schemes.

-City Hall has created a very independent, very well-armed police force that seems to know more about the supernatural world than they should ("The Unit"). It's possible that you've been targeted by the Unit, or is being tracked by the Unit. Or maybe you're working for them, or know someone who's part of it.

I'll have some more questions for everyone as we go.

Lilith's debts:

1) Someone makes sure you get fed regularly. You owe them 2 Debts.
Twiddle provides me with a ready supply of willing victims.

2) Someone relies on you for their fix. Ask them what you provide that keeps them sane. They owe you a Debt.
Tessa is relying on my 'vampire kiss' to help her with her headaches.

For the third one, considering that Lilith is a born vamp, I would go with the debts from the second edition of US. Pending GMs approval on this:
3)
1st edition: Someone bears responsibility for you becoming a vampire. They owe you a Debt.
2nd edition: Someone recently sold you out to one of your enemies. You avoided the worst of their attacks, but your betrayer owes you a Debt.


I can take one of these two.
The first one works with my 3rd debt. I see a good link between you keeping me hidden from my enemy (I owe you) and someone else sold me and they owe me.
The second one works with my career (Private detective).
This message was last edited by the player at 08:45, Sat 22 May 2021.

That's totally fine. Approved!

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 4):



That works for me.

Debts for the Wolf:

1. Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful.  You owe them a Debt.
   
   • I am helping hide Twiddle from the Wild Hunt
   
   
2. Someone hired you for a job and you fucked it up.  You owe them 2 Debts.
   
   • Tessa hired me to track down some punk, but I went overboard and alienated her from the group.
   
   
3. Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection.  They owe you a Debt.
   
   • Lilith is hiding in my territory, taking advantage of the untoward location.

For the first one, I wounder if George is being hidden without his knowledge.  He's been pretty aggressive on the streets, and doesn't truly understand the extent of the danger he' in.

For the second, he does a lot of tracking jobs, and a lot of PI work.  He's pretty good at it, too.  But he isn't always successful.

For the third, anyone want to live in the slums?  You'll have Wolf George watching your back...
This message was last edited by the player at 15:00, Tue 25 May 2021.

I would take number 1. Last thing I need is the Wyld Hunt coming after me trying to drag me back to the Summer Court.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:25, Thu 20 May 2021.

In reply to Twiddleskimershim (msg # 8):

So you want to reverse this one, where I'm hiding you from the Wyld Hunt, and you owe me a debt?  I'm down for that.  While our world may not cross often, I could see the Hunt having to deal with different Wolf territories (most of whom don't tend to care about the Hunt, as I assume they mostly come after Fae).  Not only has George been pushing the other Wolves to fight back against them, he doesn't allow the Wyld Hunt in his territory.

Idea: Twiddle's RTJ mentioned him 'selling dreams.' What if the 'dreams' he sold was a substance created/produced by a Place of Power (Wild) that exists in George's territory?

In which case Twiddle could take George's 'Lives in his territory and benefits from his protection' Debt. Or Twiddle could be keeping George safe from the Wyld Hunt (who covet the place of power).

Or both.

In reply to System (msg # 10):

Well, my own powers would allow me to do all the sales I need. Maybe there is a lay line that enhances Fae abilites? Normally you have to make a deal with the Fae in question. There could be a seedpod plant, where Twiddle can place the deal inside the plant. Thus allowing the person in question to get the magic in question just by eating the pod.

Lilith, how do vampires feed?  I might allow you to feed in my territory, but that's not a guarantee.

I've been thinking and i have a proposal. Since i told the GM that Lilith never killed anyone (for hunger) and I'm not sure yet if feeding on animals is something Lilith would do either, i would tie this debt to my 3rd, again.

Some background info so the following would make sense: as a PD, before things went nuts, most of Liliths clients were mortals. But when shit started happening, because of low to no request, Lilith started taking jobs from other factions. Somehow (not decided yet) she made an enemy during one of her jobs. Someone sold her (my 3rd debt), Lilith decided to move and hide. Twiddle suggested to hide in your territory and he's one of the few who know where Lilith stays (I owe him). You accepted me in your territory and offered me protection for a debt.

How does it sound for you?

That would work for me.  I do want to point out, though, that my territory is the slums.  It's the area outside the Industrial district, where the windows are boarded up and half the residents are squatters.  When I think Vamp, I don't think ghetto.  Though there was probably a movie in the 90s about that very concept...

I think that's perfect!

That's exactly the reason why I have accepted to hide there :)) no one would expect to find me here. I would love to move back tho. But I must figure out how to get rid or make peace with my enemy.

Right.  Staying in my territory is one thing.  But four walls and protection?  That's worth a debt.  Don't mind the other residents, they're mostly harmless.

---

If we want to spread these out evenly, it looks like we can each select three "debt" choices from other players.  That will cover all of them, and provide a good variety.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:37, Thu 20 May 2021.

Chiming in now with my own Debts, which I'll bold and add in names for once someone has taken them:

- Someone helps decipher your visions with unique insights. You owe them 2 debts. (Twiddle!)

- You had a dark vision about someone, but gave bad guidance. You owe them a Debt. (Vincent!)


- Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you've forgiven them--they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions. (George--and I don't think Tessa's forgiven him yet!)

(look at post #37 in this thread.)

I'm gonna read over everyone else's starting Debts and then I'll chime in again with whichever ones I'd like to take.

I'll also introduce my character here by briefly explaining who Tessa is:

Tessa started off as a regular college student with a bad habit of getting very lost, and exactly six months before the trouble started, she started having headaches, which escalated to visions. Along the way, her professor in Gnostic religions gave her some books to read and, while reading them, she fell into a fugue state one day and woke in the subterranean guts of the city conversing with a psychic rat-thing.

Presently, she's trying to track down a mysterious punk that people say can do what she does--maybe even better than she does it. :^)
This message was last edited by the player at 08:13, Sat 22 May 2021.

In reply to Tessa Combs (msg # 17):



Your visions could have led you to Twiddle, and due to his otherworldly nature he could give you insight into something you saw that made no sense to a earthborn person.

Love it!

MC/System, will I be using the 2e Oracle, which has the Benefactor? If I am, then this could be a potentially good source of tension.

(Also, I think that the 1e and 2e Debts differ, so I can edit it to the 1e Debts if not.)

I think I'd like to take that second, following on from my current goal. Maybe something you did while looking for the punk alienated Tessa and yourself from the group he's a part of.

Oh, absolutely!  Just because George can find anyone, doesn't mean he can get you to them. George has absolutely garbage social skills, so any of the subtle crap tends to slip right past him.  Things may have gotten a little hairy at a bar where he was following a lead (pun intended), and now some of the other Oracle's outer echelon is wary of you (and unaccepting of George).

I think Wolf George's primary goal at this time is to handle a Mummy that has been encroaching on his turf.  The bandages and lepers moving in from the east (of his slums) were slow to be detected, but he's onto them now.  The problem is that this creature can disappear into a crowd like no other, slipping through George's fingers like sand.

I am actually taking Psychometry, so...might be able to help you with that, sometime soon.

That could actually tie in well with me...

Vincent used to be a somewhat lackluster Catholic priest (Father Charles Brown) who had more loyalty to the guys from the old neighborhood than he did for the Church.  One of them turned out to be a Very Bad Person and poor Charlie died...and spent an indeterminate amount of time in Purgatory before someone else's call for vengeance was strong enough to Bring Him Back.  But he remembers Charles as another person, practically, dissociated from his current psyche...and those who knew him before may or may not recognize him (suffering in Purgatory changes a soul in very profound ways...)

And, since Vincent isn't sure who Called Him Back, he needs to find the person to be their avenging angel and redeem his soul.  An oracle could be very helpful for that...if he can ever find you...

I could take this one. Maybe you asked me to track down the mysterious punk and something bad happened? Maybe he is (also) the enemy I made in my 3rd debt?


Or you could take one of mine. All 3 are still up for anyone to take.


@Vincent
I've checked your play book and saw this debt: Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. They owe you two Debts.
I'm looking for someone who killed my great-great-grand-father and someone told me that this city is the last place were he was seen. Could it be that you were the one who told me that?
This message was last edited by the player at 08:49, Fri 21 May 2021.

Vincent

Twiddle could have mourned you. While you could have known the human Omar, you might have tried to rehabilitate him from his criminal ways, unsuccessfully.

Despite not truly being Omar, Twiddle loves mortal life. He finds any ending of it a loathsome waste.

Lilith

Does Twiddle provide you with a ready supply of willing victims? After all, he is a drug dealer...sorta of. As long as you are not killing people to feed he can find those who are up for the experience.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:47, Fri 21 May 2021.

Vincent

The dirty and corrupt often find their way to George Wolfe's territory.  He lives with the filth of the city, with those that are Bad Men.  But when those Bad Men get out of line and do bad things, that's where Wolf George has to hunt them down like dogs.  I could take the Debt of "Someone tried to get justice for your murder, but failed to lay your soul to rest. They owe you a Debt."  Out of all the men from your old neighborhood, I may have put down the wrong one.  Or perhaps the actual Bad Man was untouchable.

Sounds good!

Vincent, I may have asked you for a service which you failed.

In this case, as Twiddle might have figured out your true nature, he asked you for a promise to find Omar's dead father and bring him a message from his still living wife. As you are a revenant and not a haunt, you don't have access to spirits of the dead. Therefore you tried and failed, thus owing me 2 debts.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:03, Fri 21 May 2021.

Twiddle
'You entrusted someone with a dangerous task. Ask them if they succeeded or failed. If they succeeded, you owe them a Debt. If they failed, they owe you 2 Debts.'  This could be a fun story between the two of us.  Did I do a job for you and succeed too well, in a manner that it basically failed?  You wanted one person taken care of, perhaps they were moving in on your career or they were a representative of a Court.  Did I slaughter a whole room of reps, bringing too much attention on you?

Tessa
'You’ve had a dire prophecy about someone, but you don’t know how to help them...yet. You owe them a Debt.'  George lives a brutal life, picking fights with those bigger than he and trying to protect those smaller.  It's unlikely that he has a good outcome, so this could be perfect for him!
This message was last edited by the player at 15:29, Fri 21 May 2021.

In reply to George Wolfe (msg # 30):

Most likely, I asked you to kill the Huntsman-the Leader of the Wyld Hunt. In the mortal world, the Fae are vulnerable to death. Despite that, they still possess a fraction of the enormous power they wield in the Faelands.

Despite the fact you are a Wolf, its unlikely you could killed the Huntsman given his power and the pack of Fae hunting dogs and fae hunters that join the Hunt. They come to 'reclaim' fae who refuse to remain in the Faelands. They are allowed to vist, with the permission of the rulers, but none of them are allowed to stay. Normally Fae creatures just return automatically because they cannot sustain themselves on earth, but some like Twiddle find a loophole. Those are the ones marked for the hunt.

Heck, it might have been after I pissed off the Huntsman by attempting to kill it that you asked for my protection!  One of my goals (not immediate) is to gather more power and build a pack so that I can finally stop the Huntsman.

In reply to George Wolfe (msg # 32):

Sounds good!

Lillith--I don't know that I'd consider that any sort of reliance on my powers.  That's just asking for some information...

I'll leave that one for Higher Powers to rule upon...*grin*

Twiddle--that's possible.  Back when Vincent was still 'Father Charlie', he went out of his way to help a lot of people, many of whom were not exactly poster-children for Living a Good Life...so Omar may easily have been one of the many who benefited from his generosity (and/or poor judgment, depending on who's asked about it...)

George--Very possible (again, one that I'd have to let System rule upon)...but Father Charlie's killing was part of a dark ritual that desecrated the church in which he'd served.  It's the sort of thing that would likely have gotten your attention, and it could easily be that the perpetrator gained enough clout in his organization to be effectively out of reach...you could have cleaned up some/most of his gang and missed him and some of his closest associates.

Where I'll likely be coming into the game somewhat behind everyone else, I don't want to commit to anything without talking through concepts for how Vincent shows up with our GM...if everyone is off and running a couple of weeks ahead of me, I don't want to tie up potential resources on people too greatly.  I'm also unfamiliar with PbtA as a system, so I don't know how crucial Debts and Favors are...

In reply to Vincent Nero (msg # 34):

What about this? Would this work for you as well? Only Twiddle would make such an odd request of you. Then again, when Omar was a boy he might have asked for you get God to return his dad to his mother. You could not really do ether, and it would connect Omar and Twiddle togeather.

Vincent
In regards to the unsurety of starting with debts:
I've dabbled in some PbtA, and it seems each one has its own resource system as well as advancement system.  Urban Shadows (which I've admittedly never played before) uses Debts as both a resource and tool for advancement (Cashing In a Debt marks the faction involved, which itself is a step towards advancement).  But they don't start balanced, as the Wolf starts much more in Debt than the Fae, for example.  As a player, I'd say not to worry about it.  When you do make your appearance, you won't be starting from ground zero, since you'll already have debts owed and collectable.

In regards to the discussion of George owing Vincent a debt:
I like this a lot!  Sure, you weren't necessarily a good man.  But you weren't a Bad Man.  No, a Bad Man is one who uses these dark arts on someone like you.  Wolf George tried to get him, but the Bad Man was too well guarded, too high up.  The Wolf let you down, rest your soul.

Twiddle
I look forward to learning more about the Huntsman and their Wyld Hunt.  Sounds like a worthy challenge for the Big Bad Wolf.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:26, Fri 21 May 2021.

Whew, lot of messages to catch up on--taking into account some Debts which I already agreed to and trying to spread the connections around a bit, I'm looking at this for my Debts:

- Someone helps decipher your visions with unique insights. You owe them 2 debts. Twiddle!

- You had a dark vision about someone, but gave bad guidance. You owe them a Debt. Vincent! As a suggestion, maybe Vincent's mind can appear in Tessa's visions, producing mixed visions of both Vincent and whatever else is going on, which become impossible to understand and constitute "bad guidance" as Tessa tries to help in her vision state. Alternatively, your Daemon appears in my visions, to the same effect.

- Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you've forgiven them--they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions. Lilith, maybe! Not George, I'm getting similar debts mixed up. I actually like the idea that, just maybe, Tessa tried to hire both George and Lilith to look for the punk, but by a series of bad/disastrous consequences, both of them managed to escalate the situation--maybe George by being himself after finding the punk, then Lilith because, like, when someone sends a vampire after you it just plain comes off as an attack.

I think out of the Debts I don't think have been claimed yet, I like Lilith's "fix" Debt a lot--Tessa is living with a permanent headache, and maybe the only thing that calms it down for a bit is the weird ecstasy of a vampire feeding on her. Maybe it was even Twiddle who arranged this!

Also, I noticed this on Vincent's Revenant playbook: "Someone  tried  to  get  justice  for  your  murder,  but  failed  to  lay  your soul to rest. They owe you a Debt." Maybe this could work for Tessa in this way: leading on from the vision visitation, Tessa tries to look into Vincent's life and murder on her own and badly screws up, leading to some bad consequence I don't want to further speculate on without discussing it with you. :)

With the Debt I maybe took from George's playbook, that would be three if everyone agrees to these.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:12, Sat 22 May 2021.

So I met you through Twiddle (who's bringing me willing 'donors'), and my 'vampire kiss' is helping you with your headache. Love it!
Some time after that, you asked me to look for the punk (I might need a few more details here) and my attempts of intimidating him failed (let me know if you forgave me. I'm already on the loosing side with my debts :)) ). Now he's keeping an eye on me and I'm hiding in George's territory.

I need someone (or an NPC) to take my 3rd debt, to tie everything together.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:46, Sat 22 May 2021.

Okay! Hey everyone. Really good work in here so far. Answers to a couple of questions.

1. First edition or second?
-I'm going to stick with 1st, since that's the one I know well and the version that's in the rules threads. If anyone's Archetype has something different in 2E (move, debts), feel free to use it. Just make sure you tag it on your sheet.

2. Vincent and Debts and Delays
-Vincent, go ahead and participate in the Debts talk like anyone else. You're not going to mess anything up if your entry is delayed. The main purpose of Debts at this stage is jump-start some connections. So it's good you have them when you come on board.

And some vague workshoppy bits. You don't have to answer every question, they're just to get some thoughts down on how everyone interacts with the setting. Feel free to riff as necessary.

LILITH
Tell me about vampire society in Bay City? We know the Sulejmani were ruled by one Clan, but how usual/unusual was that Clan? How many vamps are there? Lots? Few? No one knows? Are there any major divisions within their ranks (ie born vs turned, etc)? How usual/unusual is Lilith compared to 'normal' vamps? How hard has she had to work for her independence? What did it cost to establish? What does it cost to maintain?

GEORGE
In your RTJ you mentioned that few Wolves take up in the City, and the ones that do are typically not very nice. What's the 'default' state of a Wolf? Both in terms of morality and geography? Why is George so different? What drove him to the City and to this mission? Other Wolves in the City, the not-so-nice ones, what's their story? Are the organized around any kind of unifying principle, or are they all individual exiles? How do (presumably) country Wolves feel about City Wolves? And vice versa?

VINCENT
So, you died. And there are, in this setting, other creatures that have died (Spectres). How is your experience of dying different from theirs? Does everyone who died lose their memories? What's different about the process that brought him back vs whatever brings them back? Does Vincent feel like he's alive? Or dead? Or neither/both? In the absence of knowing who brought him back, what's driving him right now, tonight, this moment? What's his relationship like with his Daemon (especially seeing as how he's not sure why he's back yet)?

TESSA
Her story is interesting both because she has no pre-existing relationship with others of her kind (although I have many plans), and because as the game starts her life is on the verge of changing drastically, one way or the other. So for her, I think what would be good is to think about what her 'human' life looks like, how has it already been changed by her sudden foray into the supernatural, and what does she have that she values, that will be threatened as her 'other' life starts to take precedence? The first few major steps into her new life should involve some hard choices about what it costs her to go one way or the other.

TWIDDLE
How does Twiddle pay the rent? If he's using his magic to sell 'dreams' then who are his clientele? How do they hear about him? What circles does his name travel in? What does it cost (other than money) to buy Faerie dreams? Who is he pushing out of business by plying his trade? What enemies has he made by doing so, and how does he keep himself safe? How does he walk the line between 'easy enough to find to do business' but 'not so easy to find that the Wyld Hunt comes calling every day'?

That'll do to start. Feel to let me know if you have any questions.

Twiddle does sometimes accept money as a 'debt'. He is not 100% clear on the concept of money, but knows it pays for Omar's apartment and helps take care of Omar's sick mother who lives with him. Twiddle keeps her healthy via his magic.

His clients spread info about him via word of mouth and his cell phone. Twiddle is willing to have any customer, from the curious to the desperate. As he is 'the only game in town', he does not really have anyone that can compare to what he offers. The other visting Fae will return to Faeland useally within 24 hours.

He has made enemies. The drug cartels do not like independent operators, but trying to send thugs after him does not seem to work. Many of them come back with insane stories about falling in love with trash cans and turning into squirrels.

The police really hate Omar. He has a criminal record, is black and makes a better living then a lot of them do. However, trying to find Twiddle, catch him, or even get in his way is difficult for normal humans. Being able to change into a bird, rat, and create illusions makes his human foes job near impossible. Not to mention he does not actually sell drugs. He only violates the laws of physics. The 'Unit' will most likely take an interest at some point, but Twiddle is not violent enough to be on thier radar...yet.

As the Wyld hunt does not really grasp human society that well, they useally travel in the Hunting Pack during the three nights of the full moon. Twiddle is not the only Fae to have found a loophole not to return to Faeland. As a result, they are not always after him. However, he has successfully avoided at least one hunt, with the help of George. The Huntsman does have a long memory however...
This message was last edited by the player at 03:12, Mon 24 May 2021.

1. First edition or second?
I don't mind either way. I don't know the rules well so I'm good with sticking to the 1st edition if you're more comfortable with that.


Tell me about vampire society in Bay City? We know the Sulejmani were ruled by one Clan, but how usual/unusual was that Clan? How many vamps are there? Lots? Few? No one knows? Are there any major divisions within their ranks (ie born vs turned, etc)?
Considering the Game Intro: less than a year ago, the Elder vampire Konstandin Sulejmani and his seven progeny were slain in one night by an unknown assailant
Sulejmani was a born vamp, and his seven subordinates were part of his family. Four of them were his children, and the others were his nephews. It was a family kind of clan of around 50 born-vamps. They believed that vampires can achieve their greatest potential by being born, not turned. (Want more drama?) Sulejmani's dream was to 'clean' the vamp society of half-bloods (turned ones). Because of his desires, he was a threat to a lot of clans (vamps and more). His assassination was somehow expected.


How usual/unusual is Lilith compared to 'normal' vamps?
The truth is that there is almost no difference between born and turned vamps. The only difference is how they cope with being a vamp and how being turned have affected their life. Some of the turned ones have accepted their fate, but also some of them did not. Some vamps are turning people into vamps to raise an army (or a clan of their own). Those are loyal soldiers and have accepted their fate. But the ones who were not lucky to be part of a 'family' hate their new life.
Born vamps are already part of a family. Their family. They have no idea how would it be, to not be a vamp. It's like you would be born with a specific skin colour or in a specific country. It is what it is. Their potential power is the same. They can get more powerful only by practicing (like some people go to the gym or not).

How hard has she had to work for her independence?
If you are referring to financial independence, she has not reached that point yet. Especially with the market crash and low new requests from the clients. She is receiving a monthly allowance from her parents. But indeed, she would like to gain her independence. She thinks that bringing justice to her family (killing the one who killed Vlad) would make her father appreciate her more and stop from always comparing her with her brother, Lazarus, who has a business of his own.
To reach her independence, she's trying two things: get well known in the community through her PD services (she might open her own business after); become the mistress of a powerful politician (to get enough money and influence to open a business).

What did it cost to establish? What does it cost to maintain?
So she's not there yet. And the cost is that she might make even more enemies by trying to get there.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:43, Sun 23 May 2021.

Wolves tend to avoid the cities for several reasons.  More hunters (of the supernatural sense), more corners in which danger can lurk, and less freedom to roam.  Those that do stay tend to play the power game and attempt to carve out a territory of their own.  Much of the city is claimed by different Wolves, though what they do with the territory differs from Wolf to Wolf.  The youth in the packs are always looking for opportunities to (often literally) claw their way to the top, so it is a dangerous life in general, but cities tend to bring out ambition in people.  Without a pack or pack leader, the default state of a werewolf is the man unaware of his violent persona, a position that more often occurs outside of major cities.

George, being a smaller wolf (despite being a larger man) was exiled from his previous pack for being a runt, but instead of fueling his anger, this led him to seek out a new family, one that he may have to create himself.  He surrounds himself with the rejects that society looks down upon and provides them some semblance of protection.  To be fair, the niche he controls is not one that is often contested by other Wolves, but usually by other creatures.

The hierarchy of Wolves is not well-defined, nor well understood.  Most areas where Wolves congregate have an Alpha, one to whom other Wolves show respect but not necessarily obedience.  The Alpha of Night City is a businessman, a Wolf in the conference room and out.  It is said in hushed tones that he has literally killed off his competition, using their vacations as opportunities to enjoy the hunt.

Country Wolves, when involved with a pack and therefore more informed as to their curse, tend to look down on City Wolves as caged beasts.  In addition, they tend to be more spiritual, in tune with their bestial side.  On the other hand, City Wolves tend to not have the time to ponder the existence of Country Wolves, as their lives are dedicated to survival and strengthening themselves.

Each individual wolf shifts in a unique way, though sometimes a method is passed on through the bite.  Many Wolves shift only on the full moon and lose all focus.  Some shift every night.  A very unlucky few shift and lose control every night- these Wolves are hunted down for the betterment of everyone.  Wolf George transforms each night, but only loses control around the full moon.  He does not remember when he got the bite, nor from whom.

Awesome. I think I might take the Benefactor then, just because it seems like a really interesting and varied relationship to have. (Also, without thinking about it, I wrote a character in who fits for this relationship.)



So, Tessa's human life right now is fairly innocuous. She still lives in her old apartment, and she is taking a term off from university while attempting to finish up a late paper. Before too long, she's expected to return to classes for her degree.

The foray into the supernatural caused this absence, and is likely to prevent her returning to university any time soon. Although she loves studying esoteric matters, the ability to study at a distance and at leisure is something which she greatly enjoyed, and something which she's likely to lose permanently.

Tessa, of course, had a number of friends and other relationships at the university, and it's likely that she will come to be forgotten by these people. Those who won't forget, like traditionally long-remembering professors of religious studies, are likely to become disappointed in Tessa--her family already is. I think this will probably get worse in time, and Tessa might find that mundane sorts are not as benevolent as she thought.

I think that Tessa's noticed that her new...companions are in a weird spot with the law, and she wonders if she's going to have to cross that line eventually. I even think that there might be a symbolic threshold that Tessa will have to cross--a moment of casting off whatever in her is suited to normal/mortal life. The question, I guess, is when Tessa will be willing to give up the warmth of the sun, so to speak, and to descend into the cold, harsh world she's meant for.

Regarding the Benefactor, I think that Padbit's gang might be a dangerous association for Tessa, and might themselves bring harm to people Tessa loves or might endanger those people through their conflicts with others.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:39, Mon 24 May 2021.

Lilith, given that Debts are running scarce, did George betray you at one point?  Perhaps when he first learned of your... condition?  This was in the past, reparations have been made, but the Debt still stands?

I've actually been thinking about that a few days ago. But i don't think it fits.

So, the story so far: I met Tessa through Twiddle (as blood 'donor'). Tessa hired me to intimidate/ follow/ do something to a mysterious punk. I was bad at it and I made myself a new enemy. (Here is supposed to happen my 3rd debt - someone sold me, then) Twiddle has put me in contact with you (to hide) and you have accepted (allow and protect me) in your territory.
That's all created from the debts so far.

At this point, you betraying me to the mysterious punk since I'm living in your territory under your protection, would not really fit. It would at least cancel the debts and it would mean that Lilith is no longer hidden from her enemy (to not mention her trust in you also).

I was thinking that Vincent could take this one. If not, I guess we will have a first NPC debt.

So if Tessa ends up taking Vincent's Debt of "Trying to avenge him!!!", then that leaves "Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. They owe you two Debts."  While I'm not stoked about owing so much, I did sorta like the idea that George sometimes has to call on Vincent for assistance.  The Revenant has a way with people and destruction that George finds useful, especially when he can direct it towards his own goals.

If Vincent doesn't want this, I could perhaps take it. Maybe the punk is a bit sharper as an Oracle, and something slipped into his visions from my mind.

Hmmm... that could work. Let's wait for Vincent as well on this. I would like to have a relationship with his character too.

Oh, yeah, I'd only take it if Vincent doesn't want to for some reason. :)

Also, I have a Vincent Debt that may go unclaimed.

Sorry about the relative silence, it's been a busier week than I'd anticipated.

I have the Debts standing here:

FAE
OPEN. Someone broke an important promise to you and swore they would make it up to you. They owe you 2 Debts.
LILITH. You are keeping something hidden for someone. They owe you a Debt.
GEORGE. You entrusted someone with a dangerous task. Ask them if they succeeded or failed. If they succeeded, you owe them a Debt. If they failed, they owe you 2 Debts.

ORACLE
TWIDDLE. Someone helps decipher your visions with unique insights. You owe them 2 Debts.
VINCENT. You had a dark vision about someone, but gave bad guidance. You owe them a Debt.
GEORGE. Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you’ve forgiven them—they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions.

VAMP
TWIDDLE. Someone makes sure you get fed regularly. You owe them 2 Debts.
TESSA. Someone relies on you for their fix. They owe you a Debt
OPEN. Someone recently sold you out to one of your enemies. You avoided the worst of their attacks, but your betrayer owes you a Debt.

WOLF
LILTH. Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt.
TESSA. Someone hired you for a job and you fucked it up. You owe them 2 Debts.
LILITH. Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection. They owe you a Debt.

REVENANT
TWIDDLE. Someone mourned your death, truly and deeply. You owe them a Debt.
OPEN. Someone tried to get justice for your murder, but failed to lay your soul to rest. They owe you a Debt.
OPEN. Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. They owe you two Debts.

Is that correct? Did I miss anything? Or get anything wrong?

That puts the count as:
Lilith - 3
Wolf - 2
Twiddle - 3
Tessa - 2
Vincent - 1
Open - 4

Which is not bad.

Assuming I'm correct in my accounting, I would suggest the following:

1. Change George's Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection from Lilith to Vincent. Both because Lilith has two with George, and they overlap. And George can be keeping Vincent safe without even really knowing much about him (since it's *his* territory).

2. Give Vincent's Someone tried to get justice for your murder, but failed to lay your soul to rest to Lilith, since it dovetails well with her PI background, and again could be done without Lilith even knowing much about Vincent (I'll work with you on this one, Lilith, I have some ideas).

3. Tessa take Twiddle's Someone broke an important promise to you and swore they would make it up to you. They have prior association due to the dark vision, and Tessa could have promised that her Benefactor would render some aid, which then they could not or would not, leaving Tessa holding the bag.

4. George take Vincent's Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. I'm not sure what that would be just yet. Maybe something as simple as use of the church to hide, or knowledge of a sector of the underworld.

5. Give Lilith's Someone recently sold you out to one of your enemies to an NPC. Unless someone else really has a good idea for it. And we make sure that NPC is up front and important to the start of the game, so they're on-screen a lot.

That would give everyone 3 Debts, except Vincent with 2 (which is fine since he's coming in a little late). And I think gives everyone something interesting to lean on as we get started.

Are there any objections to the above? Is any of it resting on incorrect assumptions?

If everyone's cool with that, I'll get started on opening scenes right away.

***NOTE: this is a double post, please read the one above this as well***

Final-ish Workshopping Questions:

LILITH
You're sitting in your favourite bar/cafe/restaurant on a day when the office is closed (and your hours are posted prominently on your office door). Someone comes up to you, clearly in a state, they tell you they've looked all over for you, they're desperate and afraid and need help immediately. Who are they and what do they need?

GEORGE
You're walking the streets one average night when you hear the sounds of a commotion behind a nearby construction fence. Inside you see four toughs harassing a young man you know from around. You come up, the young man runs off. When accosted, the toughs look at you and tell you maybe you haven't heard, but this street doesn't belong to you any more. Who are they and where do they get the spine to pull a stunt like this?

TESSA
You wake up with a splitting headache. Worst one in weeks. You stumble through going to the bathroom and splashing some water on your face, and you're about to call Twiddle when you're slammed with a vision of something deep and vast and horrible happening. Not just to one person, but to several people. Maybe even many people. The vision clears and your headache is mostly better. But you're shaking and filled with dread. Who are these people? How are they related? What's about to happen to them?

TWIDDLE
You're walking your beat, doing your deals, handing out dreams and pocketing cash. Same old same old. Someone comes up to you, clearly nervous. You know them from around. Everyone knows them around here. They sidle up. Say that they heard you could help them. That you could sell them something to make everything better. Who are they? Why are are they coming to you now of all times? What can you get out of them once they're in your pocket?

I'll leave VINCENT for later. We'll workshop him in once he's free.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:39, Thu 27 May 2021.

One correction here; the first Debt (Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt.) is with Twiddle, and we reversed it.  I'm hiding Twiddle from the Wyld Hunt, after I failed to take down the Huntsman.

For the second suggestion (Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill.), this is something I proposed earlier.  My idea was that the Big Bad Wolf can't always blow the house down, and sometimes he needs someone with a little more... finesse.

---

Workshopping Question:
You're walking the streets one average night when you hear the sounds of a commotion behind a nearby construction fence. Inside you see four toughs harassing a young man you know from around. You come up, the young man runs off. When accosted, the toughs look at you and tell you maybe you haven't heard, but this street doesn't belong to you any more. Who are they and where do they get the spine to pull a stunt like this?

These men must have come from one of two places, depending on their dress.  If they are dressed in ratty clothing, bandages and filth, they are with the Mummy who has been pushing into my territory.  It's possible they didn't get the memo that the man they're dealing with during the day is not the same creature that emerges at night.  Or perhaps they are more fanatical towards their leader.

If, instead, they dress ANY different, it's more likely that they are another Wolf Pack that is pushing into my territory one street at a time, marking the new territory.  Wolf George isn't the largest Wolf, and can be seen as something of a pushover.  He also doesn't yet have his own Pack, so his strength is limited.  This Pack knows the strength behind it, so moving in isn't such a dangerous task.  The main reason the other Wolfs haven't taken his territory is that they don't necessarily want it.  Would you?

I could take this. Twiddle may have watched humanity for centuries, but the various details still escape him. For example, someone comes up to him, telling him he is Lilith 's very good friend and has not seen her in years. He knows just enough about Lilith and her relationship with Twiddle to be convincing. Turns out, he is a fundamentalist vampire hunter, and shoots Twiddle and then tries to stake Lilith. His then showed the error of his ways by Lilith, who manages to get first aid to Twiddle. Twiddle is very sorry.

Hm. Can we flip this back or re-work it? Conceptually, that Debt is supposed to represent the fact that the Wolf runs things in their territory, but there's a big giant world out there they're not paying enough attention to. So someone is protecting them from the consequences of their own actions. So they have Debts owed to them for patrolling their borders, but owe threats for nebulous things outside them.

Could Twiddle be hiding HIM from the Wyld Hunt (told him enough Lore to evade them, provided the means to secure himself against them, etc?).

Or leave it with Lilith, which would make the Debts work out as everyone has three, except Twiddle has four and Vincent two. Which works okay.

Note that, in terms of story, George can still be keeping Twiddle safe from the Wyld Hunt. It just means he's not owed a Debt for it. Which could be the case for any number of reasons.

I was seeing it as a mutual effort, with George providing the muscle to keep them at bay.  But I like your idea.  George tried fighting them off once and failed, which caught their attention.  Now Twiddle is helping hide him from the Hunt, and the Debts he has collected could possibly used for physical protection again in the future.

In reply to George Wolfe (msg # 56):

Yeah. It's a little counter-intuitive, which makes it more fun.

Leave it to a Fae...

Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you�ve forgiven them�they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions.
This is my debt. Tessa asked me to look for the mysterious punk and he became the enemy from my 3rd debt. I still don't know if she forgave me or not.
George, am I wrong?
L.E. George has confirmed


Considering the correction, may I still keep George's 3rd debt?
L.E. Still mine


Ok. I would like to hear your ideas.


For this one we have some options:





The way I have pictured my 3rd debt was related to the mysterious punk, which Tessa asked me to look for / intimidate or something. I failed (I owe her), someone betrayed me (someone owes me), Twiddle told me about George (Twiddle is keeping my new spot hidden - I owe him) and George is offering me protection (I owe him). 4 debts in one story.

George also offered for this one, but I don't think it fits with the above story, since I'm hiding in his territory from the punk.
Tessa's idea is not bad. I'm pretty sure she would not betray me on purpose, but Oracle things (visions/powers) might have happened.
Now, if (and only if) Tessa's 3rd debt is not mine anymore, then I like Twiddle's idea. L.E The debt is still mine.

L.E. There's also the NPC option. Maybe the Veteran / Hunter (see below) betrayed me and now he's coming to ask me for help?

I think things got really mixed up and I'm no longer sure which debts I still have. L.E. All clear now

-------------------------



Since no PC is from the Mortality faction, I would love 'they' to be a Veteran or a Hunter. I think they either need help with one of their jobs or someone from their past is following them and they need me to get the job done.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:07, Fri 28 May 2021.

You're correct in regards to Tessa's Debt.  As for the protection, that still works.

Good, thank you! I will update my above message.

Okay, thank you for clarifying, that puts the Debts like this:

FAE
TESSA. Someone broke an important promise to you and swore they would make it up to you. They owe you 2 Debts.
LILITH. You are keeping something hidden for someone. They owe you a Debt.
GEORGE. You entrusted someone with a dangerous task. Ask them if they succeeded or failed. If they succeeded, you owe them a Debt. If they failed, they owe you 2 Debts.

ORACLE
TWIDDLE. Someone helps decipher your visions with unique insights. You owe them 2 Debts.
VINCENT. You had a dark vision about someone, but gave bad guidance. You owe them a Debt.
LILITH. Someone interfered with your destiny. They owe you a Debt. Tell them if you’ve forgiven them—they owe you another Debt if you still hold a grudge for their actions.

VAMP
TWIDDLE. Someone makes sure you get fed regularly. You owe them 2 Debts.
TESSA. Someone relies on you for their fix. They owe you a Debt
OPEN. (GEORGE?) Someone recently sold you out to one of your enemies. You avoided the worst of their attacks, but your betrayer owes you a Debt.

WOLF
TWIDDLE. Someone is hiding you from someone, or something, powerful. You owe them a Debt.
TESSA. Someone hired you for a job and you fucked it up. You owe them 2 Debts.
LILITH (VINCENT?). Someone lives in your territory, benefiting from your protection. They owe you a Debt.

REVENANT
TWIDDLE. Someone mourned your death, truly and deeply. You owe them a Debt.
LILITH. Someone tried to get justice for your murder, but failed to lay your soul to rest. They owe you a Debt.
GEORGE. Someone has already come to rely on you and your powers. Ask them what unique need you fill. They owe you two Debts.

And the count is:
Tessa - 3
George - 2
Lilith - 4
Twiddle - 4
Vincent - 1
Open - 1

SUGGESTION
Lilith: if you want to keep George's 3rd Debt, I won't tell you no. However, my suggestion is that maybe George is the one that sold you out. An investigation lead her into George's territory and, since she was an outsider, when some other outsiders came asking about her, he was like "She's over there it's none of my business." Later, he realized he did wrong, and invited Lilith to stay in his territory, under his protection, as recompense? Or something along those lines. And then we can give George's 3rd Debt to Vincent.

That would put the count at:
Tessa - 3
George - 3
Lilith - 3
Twiddle - 4
Vincent - 2
Open - 0

And I think everyone would have at least one link with everyone else. Which is as good as it gets.

Lilith/George: What do you think?

Ok, but I think Lilith would not move to George's territory, as she does not like the place. George owes me and I will collect later.
In this case, from whom is Twiddle hiding me and where? It would mean to also change the story of my debt to Twiddle.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 63):

Doesn't Lilith live there in this current version? All I'm suggesting is that, instead of Lilith owing a Debt for living in George's territory and benefitting from his protection, she lives there and benefits but doesn't owe him a Debt.

This is mostly a mechanical change. I don't think the story needs to change much.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 63):

After Twiddle was shot when he stupidly lead a vampire hunter to your home, he most likely showed you where to have an apartment in the city. It could be anywhere, but Twiddle can sense the lay lines. As a result, those lines could be altered slightly to bypass most people's notice while you are living in a location for a regular period of time. It's not invisibility, but people forget where you live as if it slips their minds. Even technology gets a 'error' when trying to find that location. It's most likely the same method Twiddle uses to stay off the cop's radar.

Needless to say, its not something that can effect PCs, or important or powerful NPCs. But it will keep people like your average vampire hunter and low level hostile vamps outta your hair.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:05, Fri 28 May 2021.

LOVE IT!!! Then Lilith is not in the slums. Lilith hates that place, and the smell of the wolves.

I will update my debt list a bit later, on the Debts thread. I think I'm all set for now.

In reply to Lilith Voss (msg # 66):

Do you want Twiddle owing you a debt for 'betraying' you out of sheer ignorance?

In order to work out not living in George's territory, George could be protecting someone you care about in the slum area. They are too poor to live uptown, but with your protection and George's nobody messes with them.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:14, Fri 28 May 2021.

It's fine. George has betrayed me to someone (mysterious punk or idk).
You are keeping my safe location hidden (from most of people and low power non-humans). I have two places. One is my office which I'm no longer visiting and I have a second place (like my own condo/apartment) where I'm hiding now. Tessa knows my location since she comes to make both of us happy when needed.

'Little Bit', gang banger and former childhood friend of Omar owes money. He borrowed from Bloodgrill, a gangster known for running people over when they fail to make good on thier Debts. Each time with a diffent car and a diffent driver.

Twiddle goes to see Bloodgrill, and manages to trick him into offering Twiddle a debt. Then he can use the fae magic on him freely. Bloodgrill starts to have terrifying hallucinations, which Twiddle suggests could last.

The Fae cannot lie...but they dont have to play fair ether. Besides, now that Twiddle has a human body, lying is possible but comes with a cost.

In any case, Bloodgrill forgives the debt on Little Bit, and is unlikely to try anything due to fear. He may have a grudge against Twiddle however...
This message was last edited by the player at 16:12, Tue 01 June 2021.

So I'd like to say these are four people at the mid-level who represent the various factions. They work together to manipulate situations to their own mutual financial advantage, a pursuit which has benefited each of them greatly.

The mortal representative among them brought something with him--a goat-legged, bug-faced creature that has taken to living in his spirit, and its parasitic offspring. In the vision, Tessa can see this creature embedded, as it were, in the chest cavity, although none of his associates seem to notice.

As the meeting draws on, the creature vomits out its offspring, which Tessa perceives as motes of variegated light. The motes of light perforate the faces of the attendees, wiping their faces and identities from Tessa's vision (she can't remember them distinctly following the end of the vision).

Tessa doesn't know what the motes/creatures do, but she can see that they're attaching to them, and she can see the dark welling up under the perforations, so she knows that they're affecting them negatively. The darkness welling up spreads out, smoke-like, and leaves oily impressions everywhere which seem to form letters communicating incoherent and violent messages to Tessa.

That's my idea. :)

I have this:

THE VAMP’S WEB
When someone comes to you to ask for a favor, look for advice/info, or
threaten your interests, they enter your web and owe you a Debt. When
someone is in your web, you gain the following when dealing with them:
• Get +1 ongoing to lend a hand or get in the way of their efforts
• Add this question to figure someone out: “What is your character’s
true hunger?”
At the start of a session, choose someone in your web and learn a secret
about them that they’d rather keep buried.
They leave your web only when they no longer owe you a Debt.

Tessa is in my web. I would like to know a secret about her.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:11, Mon 07 June 2021.

Ooh, let me know what you think of this one (which I'm going to leave as a PM because, hey, secret!):

That sounds really good! Thank you!
This message was last edited by the player at 08:57, Tue 08 June 2021.

PM

Man...just when I felt like I was getting up to speed...

Anyhow, I'm back...still a little sporadic as I try to settle into a rhythm with all the new responsibilities this summer, but ready to try and catch up a bit.

I'm sure I've missed a few points earlier in the thread...but I think owing George a Debt for sheltering Vincent would fit well.  The church that Vincent died in could be in George's territory...with it having been desecrated, and in the slums, I could see it being left vacant after the two murders...maybe occasionally occupied by squatters whose activities drew George's wrath, until Vincent came along.  George probably didn't know him in his first life...but something about him just seemed to belong in that church...and he's not doing anything untoward (at least, not in the church), so George not only tolerates his presence there, he relies on it to keep unsavory types from trying to claim the church as home...?

Oh, I like that!  The Church is in my territory, but not necessarily the crowd Vincent used to associate with.  One of the issues with my territory is that it is plagued by a supernatural or mystical presence, is it possible that that has something to do with you?  Or you have something to do with it?  This might be something that the GM could come up with.

We've already established that George is a little Wolf in a big world, and there are things out there he doesn't understand, such as Fae shenanigans.  Perhaps some of the afterlife and supernatural vengeance escapes him, and Vincent is a resource for that.  Also, George isn't nearly as terrifying during the day.  Plenty of reasons he has come to rely on you!

Well...Vincent died as part of some kind of ritual that desecrated the church...could easily be that the guys performing the ritual had some kind of supernatural agenda, or aid, or something of the sort, which is the source of your problem.

The weird thing may be, that isn't necessarily what brought Vincent back.  It would work out really well if it was...but he was called back by someone else's cry for vengeance, not his own.  It's up to our esteemed GM to decide whether our problems conveniently align, or if this is basically some kind of side-quest for Vincent, to potentially distract him from his true purpose...