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08:39, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

Out of Character Discussion.

Posted by ZagFor group 0
Zag
GM, 4 posts
Sun 14 Mar 2021
at 07:21
  • msg #1

Out of Character Discussion

Whatever you like.
Zahariel
player, 1 post
Mon 15 Mar 2021
at 06:47
  • msg #2

Out of Character Discussion

I bought the Advanced Race Guide (to get the race creation rules) and wrote Kayla a custom selkie race. Please comment, particularly if this isn't amphibious enough to suit you (Hold Breath is ok, but... not that great. It could be extended without serious balance concerns, probably; being fully Amphibious is only 2 RP anyway.)

Selkie (10 RP):

Selkies are mischievous aquatic fey. Seal-like in their natural form, all selkies can also transform into a humanoid form unique to each selkie (usually a human or elf, but occasionally a gnome or goblin) in order to infiltrate coastal settlements.

+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Intelligence (0 RP): Selkies are as agile and beguiling as most fey, but usually do not feel drawn to intellectual pursuits.
Fey (2 RP): Selkies are fey creatures, connected to the First World.
Medium: Selkies are medium and have no bonuses or penalties for their size.
Slow Speed (-1 RP): Selkies (in their natural form) are ungainly on land and have a move speed of only 20 feet. This speed is never reduced by armor or encumbrance.
Swim (2 RP):  Human form swim speed of 20 and +4 bonus on Swim checks; Seal form swim speed of 40 and +10 bonus on Swim checks.  I mean, come on, seals are some of the best swimmers in the ocean.  Selkies do not need to make Swim checks to swim normally, and may always take 10 on Swim checks even in stressful or dangerous situations.
Low-Light Vision: Selkies can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Shape Change, Lesser (Su) (3 RP): Selkies can change into a single particular humanoid form, as the alter self (https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDi...temName=Alter%20Self) spell except that it does not change the selkie's statistics. This form is static and cannot be changed each time. The selkie gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks made to appear as a true member of this other race (in its altered form). Assuming this form is a standard action. The selkie's humanoid form has the move speed typical to a member of its race (usually 30 feet).
Fey Fascination (Su) (3 RP): Once per day, a selkie can create a 20-foot-radius burst that causes humanoids within the aura's range to become fascinated with the user (as the bard's fascinate bardic performance). Affected humanoids may resist this effect by making a successful Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the user's level + the user's Charisma modifier).
Hold Breath (1 RP): A selkie can hold its breath for a long time before risking drowning or suffocating.  In human form, this is 6 times its Constitution score in rounds.  In seal form, it is 10 times its Constitution score in minutes.  (So, with a CON of 10, that's 6 minutes in human form or one hour forty minutes in seal form.  (I base this on https://www.nationalgeographic...oxygen-ocean-science which says that elephant seals frequently hold their breaths for 2 hours while hunting.  A heroic one should be able to get a little over 3 hours.)
Languages: Selkies speak Common and Aquan. A selkie with a high intelligence score can choose from the following: any human tongue, Aboleth, Aklo, Draconic, Elven, and Sahuagin.


Also, would the undine Aquatic Ancestry feat also suffice to make an undine character playable in this campaign (if you wanted to keep the Hydraulic Push ability)?
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:00, Sat 03 Apr 2021.
Zag
GM, 6 posts
Tue 16 Mar 2021
at 00:08
  • msg #3

Out of Character Discussion

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, though I'd say minutes rather than rounds for Hold Breath -- what they have there is not a whole lot above skilled human limits.  Maybe that amount for human form, and 10 times it (i.e. minutes rather than rounds) in seal form.
Zahariel
player, 2 posts
Tue 16 Mar 2021
at 01:39
  • msg #4

Out of Character Discussion

Yeah, I thought it was more than this, but the limit given by Hold Breath there is only twice what normal land-dwelling surfacers get (I thought it was four times but I read it wrong). This is all straight from the ARG; I didn't want to make up rules for you, but your suggestion seems perfectly reasonable.

I threw Nereid Fascination in there because I thought it sounded fun and thematic, and I had 3 extra RP. I was also toying with Hydrated Vitality, or Natural Armor + Bite (which makes them a little more like the monster selkie https://www.aonprd.com/Monster...aspx?ItemName=Selkie) but I thought this would be more fun.
Zag
GM, 7 posts
Tue 16 Mar 2021
at 01:58
  • msg #5

Out of Character Discussion

Zahariel:
Also, would the undine Aquatic Ancestry feat also suffice to make an undine character playable in this campaign (if you wanted to keep the Hydraulic Push ability)?

Sure.
Kayla
player, 1 post
Sat 20 Mar 2021
at 16:59
  • msg #6

Out of Character Discussion

Thanks Paul, I will need your help in making my character if you don't mind. I'll need sometimes help in any case!

I would like to have a bite attack in seal form, otherwise I won't have any attack in that form.
Zag
GM, 17 posts
Sun 21 Mar 2021
at 18:18
  • msg #7

Out of Character Discussion

I don't see the natural form of a selkie to be actually a seal.  From the description here https://www.d20pfsrd.com/besti...us-humanoids/selkie/

quote:
Selkies are clever and brutal seal-like humanoids that often inhabit the colder oceans of the world. Although capable predators, selkies are best known for their mysterious shapechanging ability, which allows them to come ashore in the guise of land dwellers and even live among other races before luring their victims beneath the waves to drown. In its natural form, a selkie has webbed, clawed hands and a muscular trunk ending in broad flippers. A selkie’s head is a blend of human and seal, with large eyes and a mouth full of curved teeth.


So you'd still have hands to hold weapons, plus you should have a bite attack for (let's say) d6+strength bonus.  You can only use it in addition to your regular attack in a full round attack, and it only gets half strength bonus if it is an extra attack.  So it is like 2-weapon fighting but without the penalty.  Hmmm ... rogue ...  Paul, should it get a sneak attack bonus if the target is flat-footed?  That seems overpowered to me.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:19, Sun 21 Mar 2021.
Zahariel
player, 3 posts
Sun 21 Mar 2021
at 20:04
  • msg #8

Out of Character Discussion

I didn't give the PC-race version of selkies a bite (or claws) attack; the monster version is wildly overpowered for a PC race. That would have to take the place of Nereid Fascination (along with a 2 RP trait like Natural Armor), and it's not worth it; the basic bite attack is only d3, and yes, it's a secondary attack (for 1/2 strength bonus) if you're also using real weapons. But yes, all attacks get the sneak attack bonus if the victim is flat-footed or flanked. Sneak attack is really good! It's intended to feel overpowered; if a rogue actually manages to get into a situation where they get to full-sneak-attack something, the victim gets deleted. It's not easy to do!
Zag
GM, 18 posts
Sat 3 Apr 2021
at 16:35
  • msg #9

Out of Character Discussion

In reply to Zahariel (msg # 2):

So, Kayla wants her seal form to be actually a seal, keeping with the myth of selkies in the real world rather than the Pathfinder version.  @Paul, I have some questions about the RP costs.

Fey (2 RP): Selkies are fey creatures, connected to the First World.
What does this get you for it's 2 RP?  Looking at the Fey Animal Template it gives a bunch of the things that you're charging for:  darkvision, swim speed, spell-like ability, and they even throw in a natural armor bonus.  I'm not sure what the RP to CR conversion rate is, though, if there even is one.

I changed these:
Hold Breath (1 RP): A selkie can hold its breath for a long time before risking drowning or suffocating.  In human form, this is 6 times its Constitution score in rounds.  In seal form, it is 10 times its Constitution score in minutes.  (So, with a CON of 10, that's 6 minutes in human form or one hour forty minutes in seal form.  (I base this on this article which says that elephant seals frequently hold their breaths for 2 hours while hunting.  A heroic one should be able to get a little over 3 hours.)

Swim (2 RP):  Human form swim speed of 20 and +4 bonus on Swim checks; Seal form swim speed of 40 and +10 bonus on Swim checks.  I mean, come on, seals are some of the best swimmers in the ocean.

How many RP would it be for a useful bite attack that is available only in seal form?  Since that would be her only attack in that form, it doesn't seem unreasonable to add.

As for existing underwater, most of time, an ability to go 10 * CON in minutes will be enough (so about two hours), but that would require her to stay in seal form, plus it won't always be enough.  @Kayla, Here are some solutions
  • Take the Child of Two Worlds feat, to say that you are not pure selkie but include some merperson in your ancestry and can breath underwater in your human form.
  • Spend 750gp of your starting cash on a Wand of Air bubble.  It only gets you one minute of air, but that's enough to recharge your 10 * CON in minutes.  However, it does mean you have to stay in seal form most of the time, which is going to be awfully limiting.
  • Paul has pointed out that by 5th level, he'll have access to the spell Water-breathing.  However, are you really going to want to spend 2 of your precious 3rd level spell slots every day to keep her alive?
  • Just add amphibious to the definition.  It's only a couple more RP points, and I've already said I'm allowing the Adaros race with only some minor modifications and just a small penalty to the starting point buy.  In fact, looking at it now, I'm concerned that it is still overpowered.  I'm going to nerf it a little bit more.  However, even with the changes, I think it is in the high teens on RP.

This message was last edited by the GM at 16:57, Sat 03 Apr 2021.
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