I'm new to the Savage Worlds game system, but it looks very versatile without a lot of nit-picky details to get bogged down in. I'm hoping to work through character creation in front of everybody because we are all grown-ups and can see one another's stats without cheating and because I am soliciting input from the players to make the game better.

I'm thinking that the PC's will be:

• Humans
• Hobbits
• Elves
• Dwarves

I'd really need a good reason to go outside this set, so please don't suggest you play an Ent or a Warg. No half-elves or half-orcs either. Elrond was half-elven in the books and he lived for thousands of years. So he's an elf.

I'm thinking that the characters in Aragon's council chamber will likely be at least Seasoned (3 + 1d4 Advances). The 1d4 roll can Ace, so you may end up being quite advanced if you're lucky.

No PC's have any magic abilities. (One of the things that I like about Savage Worlds -- the ability to extract out magic from the rules and character types.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:03, Wed 09 Mar 2022.

============================= HALLS OF STONE ===================================
Character Name:                     Character Rank    :
Character Race:                     Total Advances    :
Concept       :                     Unspent Advances  :
Player Name   :
==================================ATTRIBUTES==================================
Pace (---/---)   | Parry (---/---)     | Toughness (---/---)

Agility     Dx | Smarts         Dx | Strength Dx | Spirit       Dx | Vigor Dx

====================================SKILLS====================================
Athletics   Dx | Academics      Dx |             | Intimidation Dx |
Boating     Dx | Battle         Dx |             | Performance  Dx |
Fighting    Dx | Common Know    Dx |             | Persuasion   Dx|
Riding      Dx | Gambling       Dx |             |                 |
Shooting    Dx | Healing        Dx |             |                 |
Stealth     Dx | Language       Dx |             |                 |
Thievery    Dx | Notice         Dx |             |                 |
               | Occult         Dx |             |                 |
               | Repair         Dx |             |                 |
               | Research       Dx |             |                 |
               | Science        Dx |             |                 |
               | Spellcasting   Dx |             |                 |
               | Survival       Dx |             |                 |
               | Taunt          Dx |             |                 |

====================================EDGES====================================


=================================HINDRANCES==================================


====================================ARMOR====================================
Name           Locations Covered   Protection   Notes

===================================WEAPONS===================================
Name                 Range     Dam RoF   Ammo  Weight Shots Notes

==================================EQUIPMENT==================================


=================================DESCRIPTION=================================


==================================BACKGROUND=================================


================================ADVANCEMENTS==================================


This message was last edited by the GM at 17:32, Thu 10 Mar 2022.

NOTE: These are pulled directly from the core rule book, but I will listen to options you may request

DWARVES

Dwarves are short but stout, hardy people who come from massive caverns or high mountains. They are a proud, warlike race, usually made so by frequent contact with hostile races such as orcs and goblins. Dwarves usually live upwards of 200 years.

LOW LIGHT VISION: Dwarven eyes are accustomed to the dark of the their underground dwellings. They ignore penalties for Dim and Dark Illumination.

REDUCED PACE: Dwarves have short legs compared to most races. Decrease their Pace by 1 and their running die one die type.

TOUGH: Dwarves are stout and tough. They start with a d6 Vigor instead of a d4. This increases maximum Vigor to d12 + 1.

ELVES

Elves are tall, thin souls with pointed ears and deep-set eyes of various colors. Whether they hail from the deep forests or hidden valleys, they are all born more graceful than humans, though somewhat slighter. Elves may live many hundreds of years.

AGILE: Elves are graceful and agile. They start with a d6 in Agility instead of a d4. This increases maximum Agility to d12 + 1.

ALL THUMBS: Elves have an inherent dislike of mechanical objects, and thus have the All Thumbs Hindrance. They shun most mechanical items and designs.

LOW LIGHT VISION: Elven eyes amplify light. Other races often claim they can see stars in the elves’ eyes. They ignore penalties for Dim and Dark Illumination.

HOBBITS

Hobbits are small, nimble people with fuzzy brown or black hair. Though they are frail compared to most other races, their cheerful optimism (or wily cunning) gives them a “never say die” attitude that makes them more than a match for creatures twice their size. Hobbits see no reason
to invite trouble and tend to live in their own close-knit communities far off the beaten path.

LUCK: Hobbits draw one additional Benny per game session.

REDUCED PACE: Decrease the character’s Pace by 1 and their running die one die type.

SIZE −1: Hobbits average only about four feet tall, reducing their Size (and therefore Toughness) by 1.

SPIRITED: Hobbits are generally optimistic beings. They start with a d6 Spirit instead of a d4. This increases their maximum Spirit to d12 + 1.

HUMANS

ADAPTABLE: Humans begin play with any Novice Edge of their choosing. They must meet its Requirements as usual.

Are creation rules unmodified?

I mostly mean for equipment, as the initial %500 don't allow for much, and to be a Rohirrim (and having a horse) it seems you must take a hindrance for money or be nearly naked...

In reply to Berthold (msg # 4):

Or take the Rich edge.  Which, if you're a mounted, armoured warrior in Middle Earth, you'd be anyways, I figure?  I mean, you're not playing the mook with the hayrake, you're playing a Rider, I think?

That probably applies to all of us then, so does that even make it an edge worth taking?

In terms of Rohan and possibly Gondor, most weapons, armour and horses are probably the property of a lord. In the book it talks of a "weapon take" at Edoras, implying that swords an armour are, in general, stored until needed.

In reply to Wort Halffield (msg # 6):

I've generally intepreted the Rich edge as implying access to a particular level of resources.  It boosts starting wealth (you have better stuff), and provides income through the game (you can afford stuff), but doesn't involve, for example, property.

So, taking the Rich edge means you can start with a horse and armor, and have the means to support them (can provide fodder, stabling, etc.), without having to devote in-game time to acquiring those resources.  Whether that means you're independently wealthy, or a household warrior employed by a lord, the effect is the same.  If you're the latter, you might want to consider the "Vow" flaw for flavour reasons.

In fact, if you want a "knight" package, Aristocratic, Rich, and Vow are a pretty good basis.  You've got status, a general education, resources, and social obligations.  Fits pretty well.

In reply to Falin (msg # 5):

So, you  think any Rohirrim cavalry warrior has an income equivalent to $150000 per annum?

Not the way they are depicted in Lord of the Rings, IMHO...

And even then, starting with $1500 (triple the usual), would not allow to buy a warhorse (750), saddle (10) chainmail, (300 if only shirt), Medium shield (100), Longsword (300), Bow (250 `quilver and arrows) or lance (300), that already sum more tan this inital money for a rich character.

You can, being rich, if you have a non combat horse (though  Iguess most Rohirrim warriors have warhorses, or at least trained for combat, as they are depicted) and only leather armor...

But even if on foot, anyone having a sword and a boe already has spent more tan the $500...

In fact, the $500 given as standard in SWADE is, IMHO, far too low. In current times, see that a digital chamera costs $300 (so 60% of non-rich Budget), and anyone having a desktop computer has already more tan the given money, and a laptop more tan touble of it. As  Iguess all of us are loging in from one, are we all rich?
This message was last edited by the player at 12:13, Thu 10 Mar 2022.

In reply to Berthold (msg # 8):

I mean, it's up to the GM, obviously, but personally I don't see an issue with the starting resources.  My point was to bring to your attention that there are Edges you can take to compensate (I mean, if you want REALLY nice gear, take Rich and Filthy Rich).  My understanding is we've got players here with little experience of SWADE, it wasn't clear if you were one of them, and since we're all getting to know each other, I wanted to make sure you were aware that options to boost starting wealth exist.  Another option for a Rider would be to look at some of the "beast" edges, that give you an animal companion, and let you assist them.

In terms of "do I think Riders are Rich", absolutely; the average "Rider", certainly one serving in household troops like an Eored, has that kind of income, or the in-kind equivalent.   If they have a horse, armour, and the means to support both, they're rich in property (because, as you point out, these things are EXPENSIVE).  If they have time to train at arms (rather than farm), they're rich in income; the reason "fighters" and "rich people" were the same thing for most of history is that people who could derive income from sources other than farming or herding had time to train; everyone else was too busy digging in the dirt. It's a fantasy world, obviously, but one written by someone with an intimate knowledge of pre-modern societies.  Anyone who fights for a living is rich, almost by definition, and has sufficient income to support both the means and training of fighting.

The mass levy (most of the fighters at Helm's Deep, and the ones left behind in the ride to Gondor) are foot troops - rando peasant farmers given a dented cap and a spear, i.e., the not-Rich.  Even the bulk of the cavalry that follow the household troops (the latter being the various Eoreds) would NOT be as well equipped.  Maybe a warhorse, because Rohan, but probably not wearing full mail, and with cheaper weapons - axes most likely.

Falin has a bow, hand axe, dagger, arrow, leather jacket and cap.  And comes in just under the $500, with some money for snacks.  But he's NOT Rich.  He's just a guy who spends his time running back and forth between the Lonely Mountain and Minas Tirith.

In reply to Falin (msg # 9):

I have little experience with SWADE, that's true, and the Little I have is on a campaign whre equipment and money is not an issue (characters are under employment of somone who cares about those details), and that's why I was so surprised about it.

About the edges, see that taking more tan one means taking several hindrances, as you need 2 hindrance points to have one. And the Beast Master one, that you suggest (or so I understand), aside from needing Spirit 8, only allows you to have a small pet, not a horse.

About the Rich edge, I find absurd that gives you so high yearly income, you only have 1% of your yearly income to spend as equipment...

To fight from horse, you need at least a longsword, as shortsword is for infantry. You cannot reach infantry well with a shortsword. And a longsword costs as much as a horse, and 60% of your intial Budget.

Rohirrim are descended of horse nomads, so having (at least) a horse does not mean you're rich, and being also a warrior culture, I guess a sowrd or a bow are also usual belongings (I agree armor may be less common).

And, don't forget our characters are seasoned at least, so it's assumed they already have had some adventuring and probably would have obtained some equipment...

Dinally, as ) already said, if you look at contemporany costs, anyone having a computer (so I guess all of us) has either spent at least one hindrance point on money or has the rich edge, so earns about $150000 per year. I may swear you I'm not any close to those earnings, and yet I have the computer, and some more things that would be fully unavailable with SWADE intial founds...

In reply to Berthold (msg # 10):

Income =/= disposable income.  I mean, it's a game system, so it's never going to be perfect, but that income, in the context we're describing, covers cost of upkeep, sufficient food and shelter to ensure the warrior is healthy, the cost of maintaining weapons, your horse, food and shelter for the animal, food and shelter for your depenendents, and so on.  And all of this without you having to farm, or whatever.

And yes, taking edges means taking Hinderances.  But Hinderences are part of character design, OF COURSE you take them.  I don't think I've ever made a SWADE character that didn't take the full 4 at CharGen, because, as you point out, that's precisely how you pay for upgrades and extras.

If you want a rohirrim, take Vow, Code of Honour, Rich, Filthy Rich, and you've got an extra "buy" to spend on whatever (because Code is a Major).  You're a pround, honourable warrior, with an oath of service to the King of the Riddermark (or whatever), and all the horse and armour shenanigans you want.

I'm afraid taking those hindrances would not compensate the two edges, as you need 2 hindrance points to buy an edge...

Or one Advance.

The economics of middle earth is also based on an ideal, not a reality.

Something that I only understood recently is, by the standards of the Shire, the four companions were not poor. Pippin was the son of the Thane (charged with keeping good order), Merry was in line to inherit Buckland after his father. Frodo is related to both of them and was adopted by the occupant of No. 1 Bag End, a sign Bilbo was well to do before going on an adventure with the dwarves and ending up with more money than he knew what to do with (by Hobbit standards). He had to buy back most of his possessions and still had more money than he could use in 17 years

Even Sam was due to inherit no.3, but frodo gave him no.1. At the start of the adventure, each of the four hobbits had claim to more realisable money than Aragorn, who traded mostly on reputation and friendship.

EDIT: I made a mistake Hamfast Gamgee (the Gaffer) was a Tenant Farmer, so Sam didn't have as much wealth as the other three.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:44, Thu 10 Mar 2022.

Contemporary costs are not a good variable either due to inflation Vs when rules were written. A £3k laptop over 3 years is less than £100 per month if you don't consider interest.

A prime, branded video game 30 years ago was £35 They can cost anywhere between £70 and £100 now. A certain miniature company sold 5 figures for 5.99 now it can vary between £35 for 20 or £60 for 3, and I'm not sure I chose the most expensive ones.

Your sword may be 60% of your starting wealth, but how often do you expect to change swords?

Anyway, I'm not sure this is a productive discussion, and it's certainly a silly thing to make mountain of ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 14:30, Thu 10 Mar 2022.

Thank you all so much for jumping in, helping one another, having serious discussions about wealth, etc. In general, I am not a stickler for exact rules. With the exception of a couple of your characters, you are all visiting the king in Minas Tirith and will not have access to all you might own after several years of advancement anyway. Make a reasonable list of what you think your character would have with them. Everyone will get a horse or a pony provided by the king if they do not already own one.

In terms of weapons and armor, pick what you would like that fits in with your character, and the setting (chain rather than plate, for instance).

We do have a large company, though I expect that the normal winnowing will bring us down to a handful within a few weeks. Here's how the grouping breaks down, in my imagination:

These characters are residents in Minas Tirith, serving the king directly, and they will know one another.

• Roclindhir - a knight of King Aragorn
• Mercury Fleetfoot - a female hobbit serving the white city in a military capacity

These characters are visitors to the city who arrived recently for their own reasons. The two dwarves, both from the cour of Dain II, King Under the Mountain, are likely they traveled together and will know one another

• Falin  - Dwarf and messenger of the court of Dain II
• Admina - Dwarf, daughter of Dwalin

These characters are visitors who are unconnected in any way until now:

• Adunaphel - a lady of the northern Dunedain
• Wort Halffield - a hobbit from the Shire
• Telric Traventor - elf from Mirkwood

These characters are Riders of Rohan, who only just arrived with the prisoner. They know one another:

• Herubrand -  scout in the Riders of Rohan
• Berthold - a Young Rohirrim

And finally, our wizard, Silence Mulciber, NPC

Yeah, my bad - was thinking in terms of advancements (where 1 adv = a minor Hindrance removed or a new Edge).

If you want to change the amount of starting money to account for the higher level characters that can easily be done by giving a number of months worth of income as spending cash, that could be as simple as picking a number like 6 or 12, or you could fix it to the same as the number of total advances on the character for a little bit more logic.

In reply to Incantrix (msg # 15):

I had talked with Herubrand, and he and Roclindhir are cousins-in-law. That being said, I like the idea of Roclindhir knowing Mercury.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:52, Thu 10 Mar 2022.

Rolling a 1 for advancements is not good luck, but it fits to the young warriopr I intended to play...

Here he is (unless the Gm wants to make some change)


============================= HALLS OF STONE ===================================
Character Name:    Berthold                 Character Rank    :  Seasoned
Character Race:   Human (Rohirrim)                  Total Experience  :
Concept       :     Rohirrim warrior                Unspent Experience:
Player Name   :  Lluís
==================================ATTRIBUTES==================================
Pace (6/6)   | Parry (6/6)     | Toughness (6/6)

Agility     D8 | Smarts         D8 | Strength D6 | Spirit       D6 | Vigor D8

====================================SKILLS====================================
Athletics   D4 | Academics      Dx |             | Intimidation D4 |
Boating     Dx | Battle         D4 |             | Performance  Dx |
Fighting    D8 | Common Know    D6 |             | Persuasion   D4|
Riding      D8 | Gambling       Dx |             |                 |
Shooting    D8 | Healing        D6 |             |                 |
Stealth     D4 | Language       D8 |             |                 |
Thievery    Dx | Notice         D6 |             |                 |
               | Occult         Dx |             |                 |
               | Repair         Dx |             |                 |
               | Research       Dx |             |                 |
               | Science        Dx |             |                 |
               | Spellcasting   Dx |             |                 |
               | Survival       D4 |             |                 |
               | Taunt          Dx |             |                 |

====================================EDGES====================================
Soldier
Command
=================================HINDRANCES==================================
Code of honor
Vow (minor) to the king of Rohan (and his allies by extension)
Loyal
====================================ARMOR====================================
Name           Locations Covered   Protection   Notes
Chain shirt torso and arms +3
Chain hood Head +3
===================================WEAPONS===================================
Name                 Range     Dam RoF   Ammo    Weight Shots Notes
Bow           12/24/48    2d6      1                        3
Longsword NA Str+1d6   3
==================================EQUIPMENT==================================
Horse (war if possible) and saddle
Bacckpak
Quilver (with 20 arrows)
Bedroll
Hooded cloack

=================================DESCRIPTION=================================
Berthold stand on nearly 6 feet and masses nearly 200 pounds weight. He’s blond, with short beard and blue eyes, and uses to stand tall, making an imposing presence.
He uses to be formal when speaking to strangers, but may be a good fellow when his trust is earned

==================================BACKGROUND=================================
Berthols’s father was among the Rohirrim standing with Eomer when he was disgraced for his challenge to Wormtongue, and was among the group who met Aragorn, Gimly and Legolas when they were looking for Merry and Pippin. He followed Eomer to Helm’s Deep, Minas Tirith and the Black gate battles, and after the war he served in the Rohan Army and married.
Berthold has also entered in the King Eomer army, and has been serving in the patrols since he was 16. Now, at 19, he was learning commanding troops, serving as a subordinate leader in the patrol that captured the wizard, and being sent with the troop that took it to Minas Tirith

================================ADVANCEMENTS==================================
1: attribute (+1 to Smarts)
2: +1 to both, Riding and Shooting
3: +1 to healing and common knowledge
4; edge: command


This message was last edited by the player at 02:54, Fri 11 Mar 2022.

Here's my WIP sheet - thanks to Telric for helping me since I'm new.

Name: Roclindhir
Race: Human
Profession: Knight of Gondor

Attributes
Agility D8
Smarts D4
Spirit D6
Strength D8
Vigor D8

Charisma: 0
Pace: 6"
Parry: 7
Toughness: 6

Skills
Athletics D8
Persuasion D6
Common knowledge D4
Stealth D6
Notice D4
Survival D6
Fighting D10
Riding D8


Edges & Hindrances
Edge • Notes.
Human
Free Edge-Aristocrat: +2 common knoweledge for nobles & +2 Persuasion when rank comes into play.

+1 Strength

Rich-More starting Money

Hindrance • Notes.
Code of Honor-Major

Enemy-Family of spouse who hates Gondor-Minor

Driven-Prove himself worthy of Family name-Minor

Fatigue & Wounds
Fatigue:
Wounds:

Equipment
Total Weight: 0 • Weight Limit: 0 • Encumbrance Penalty: 0
Armor:
• Head:
• Torso:
• Arms:
• Legs:
Gear:


Advances
Novice
- 5 xp: Fighting +1
-10 xp: Steady Hands: no minus when riding
-15 xp: Vigor +1

Seasoned
-20 xp: Combat Reflexes: +2 vs shaken/Stunned.

I'm still working on equipment and hindrances.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:04, Fri 11 Mar 2022.

I can do background connections with anyone who has spent a bit of time in Minas Tirith before the mission starts.

In reply to Mercury Fleetfoot (msg # 21):

Well, you'd definitely know Roclindhir and his two younger brothers, Mithrion and Northoron. You'd probably know their husbands as well - Deorwine, Fréawulf, and Aethelward respectively - granted, they split what time they can between Gondor and Rohan.

I'm afraid SWADE removed charisma...

In reply to Berthold (msg # 23):

Oh! let me see what I can do to fix it

Knowing young knights seems likely, Mercury isn't exactly one of them but their paths no doubt cross a bit.  Remembering their names and or family seems a lot less likely.

Valid. Well, 3 are in the same family so they hope that helps make it slightly easier

Hi all. This is my current thinking. I'm sure I made mistakes and I still have 3 advances left by my count.

Str d4
Dex d6
Smart d8
Spirit d8
Vigor d6

6 advances
Common Bond, Healer, Great Luck

Common skill: Athletics, Common Knowledge, Notice, Pursuasion, Stealth

Skills [12]
Athletic d4*
Fighting d4
Driving d4
Shooting d4
Stealth d4* +1

Common Knowledge d4* +1 (Shire)
Knowledge Herbs d4
Language d4
Healing d4 +2
Notice d4*
Survival d4

Performance d4
Persuasion d4*

--
Reduced Pace
Reduced Vigor

Lucky

In reply to Wort Halffield (msg # 27):

You should definitely raise your skills with your advances. Particularly healing.

So it looks like this now: he is kind of a one trick pony. He heals, and is a Benny slot machine. Not sure to add Academics d4 to represent the idea he is starting to come around to the idea he has to look up new (and old) healing practices in *on paper* (heart attack); or to increase herbology to d6. The d4 in language is so he actually can read and write. Because most Hobbits can't.

Str d4
Dex d6
Smart d10
Spirit d8
Vigor d6

6 advances
Common Bond, Healer, Great Luck, +1 smart, +1 heal. 1 left

Common skill: Athletics, Common Knowledge, Notice, Pursuasion, Stealth

Skills [12]
Athletic d4*
Fighting d4
Driving d4 (pony and cart)
Shooting d4
Stealth d6

Common Knowledge d6 (Shire)
Knowledge Herbs d4
Language d4
Healing d10
Notice d4*
Survival d4

Performance d4
Persuasion d4*

--
Reduced Pace
Reduced Vigor

Lucky

Quick question / rules call on Beast Master. Can it be a horse? I know the description points to a smaller animal, but, specific to Herubrand, it seems like the Rohirrim might have developed an uncanny bond between rider and mount.

Seems pretty clear in the rules that you need to take the Edge a second time to increase the size of the animal. If you agree that it is the very next Edge you will take, and since the Riders clearly do have a special connection with their mounts, I will allow it.

In reply to Incantrix (msg # 31):

I know I hadn't taken the Beast Master edge, but what size horse would Roclindhir have? Assuming he has one because he's a knight of the White City.

NOTE: I am using English 21st century names for these breeds. I have no idea what they would be called by elves, for instance.

Quarter Horse: This is the standard horse of the Rohirrim. Not as fast in a race as the Arabian, but able to ride all day. Height: 14 hands (56 inches) to 16 hands (64 inches) Weight: 950 to 1,200 pounds

Arabian: A rare and spirited breed, hard to handle. Light and fast, but not well suited for all day riding. A sprinter. Height: 14 hands (56 inches) to 16 hands (64 inches) Weight: 800 to 1,000 pounds

Apaloosa: A hardy, versatile horse is great for herding and long-distance trail riding. Equivalent in many ways to the Quarter horse, but not typical for the herds of Rohan. It will have come from elsewhere. Tends to have colorful coat patterns. Height: 14 hands (56 inches) to 15 hands (60 inches) Weight: 950 to 1,200 pounds

Pony: These smaller animals are strong, intelligent, gentle, and a bit wily. They can ride all day, but are not very fast in a sprint. Height: 7 hands (28 inches) to 11.5 hands (46 inches) Weight: 400 to 450 pounds

Pack Horses: These horses are very large and can carry heavy loads all day long. Not fast runners. In spite of their imposing size, pack horses are typically calm, docile, and eager to please. Height: 16 hands (64 inches) to 18 hands (72 inches) Weight: 1,800 to 2,400 pounds

Just for completness (I don't expect or any to appear in the game) you should include the Mearas...

In reply to Berthold (msg # 34):

I certainly do NOT have a Mearas...