This thread is for questions

Okay, it seems they changed a few things between the Savage Species and The Expanded Psionics Handbook.
I assume we use the latter rather than the former.

Neither...3.0 Psionics Handbook

Darksun setting=
https://documentcloud.adobe.co...0f-ac2e-587b94468a3a

Will the crystal used to make the gythka and the chatkcha be made using thri-kreen venom and the spice the dra call fezjik as it is in 2nd edition?

I haven't read that part in the linked doc

So, they removed it, then.  That kind of sucks.  In the 2nd edition Thri-kreen of Athas splatbook, it was considered brave to make a crystal blade for a gythka or a chatkcha, because one blade required three uses (three days worth) of venom to create.

The way I read it, it wasn't "brave" but "basic" as you weren't considered an adult until you had done it and used it as part of your initiation into adulthood.

Question on the classes - I'm going to be psionic.  As I'm reading it, if I go Psychic Warrior, my 2nd level can't be Psionic so I'm left with just having a "wild talent" like the non-psionic characters until we hit level 3.  Is that right?

It had more to do with making multiple blades one after the other.

In reply to Ka-Hak'cha (msg # 7):

Non-Psionics require 2nd level Psychic warrior (or psion) for Wild Talent...

Psionic classes need 2nd level Multiclass for balance.

So

• A Ranger will have 1st level Ranger with Skills to match [(4+Int mod)*4]...I should note for future reference Rangers are not TWF in my games, they are Ranged specialists, which leaves Kreen free to pursue Multi Attack instead...then 2nd level Psychic warrior with 2+Int Mod skill points for Psychic skills. Then 3rd will continue as Ranger with access to Psycho Feats, but Psychic Skills are Cross Class and Exclusives are barred.
• A Psychic Warrior starts with [(2+Int Mod)*4] Skill points for Psychic skills and access to Psychic Feats, then must MC for balance reasons. If he takes Ranger he gets (4+Int Mod) skill points which are Cross Class for non-exclusive and barred from Exclusive PW skills.
• At 2nd level both Characters would be PW1 R1, but HP, skills, and probably Feats would be different, and moving on through 3rd and beyond they would diverge even more

Question for you 2...I am toying with the idea of not bothering with the 2 ECL...this will advance you faster, but cost you an immediate feat (for 1 level) and Attribute bump (for another level); what are your opinions?
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:19, Sat 16 Oct 2021.

Since we'll all be the same as far as level goes, dropping it simplifies things and I like it.  Not having to remember to account for the different levels is a big plus.

Also, I read the race section of the Dark Sun 3 rules you posted and now understand better why we need the off-level multiclass for balance.  Everywhere else, Kreen have racial hit dice that already penalize non-mundane characters by 2 levels and I was wondering why they needed to be penalized a third.  Without the racial hit dice, it makes a ton of sense and restores the "all Kreen can hunt/fight" idea that would have been lost.

Sorry for the double post but I didn't want this question missed if I edited it into the above post:

Speaking of simplifying, are we streamlining power save DC's (sidebar on p. 33 of the 3.0 Psionics Handbook)?  Basically, instead of all powers being:
 1d20 + Power Level + Key Ability Score for the Discipline
They would be:
 10 + Power Level + Key Ability Score of the Manifester (Str for Egoists, Dex for Nomads, etc)

Main benefit here is simplicity.

1) My Half Dragón game was built to use the ECL, but this one is a "throw together". I think simplicity beats ECL

2) For Save DC's, sticking to each attribute.

I am going to have to read the rule more.  I haven't had much time, and am going on a vacation starting tomorrow.  I will read more when I'm not driving.  Then I will post an opinion.

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 13):

I am on vacation now...if we start by November 7th I will be happy.

Is 3.0 point buy the same as 3.5?

In reply to Ka-Hak'cha (msg # 15):

8 =0
9 =1
10=2
11=3
12=4
13=5
14=6
15=8
16=10
17=13
18=16
19=20
20=24

At 44 points, with a minimum 10, you can't afford 2 scores over 18...and racial mods apply after.

I always thought the Charisma modifier should only apply to races other than the character's own.

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 17):

For Telepathy, it does.

I know Monk's in the first version of ADnD.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:48, Sat 16 Oct 2021.

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 19):

Now Charisma does much more than it did in 1E or BXCMI.

The reason given for the penalties in the reference work make the Charisma penalty valid, except for Telepathy among Kreen.

So is this correct?

Thri-kreen Racial Traits
• +2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, —2 Intelligence, +2
Wisdom, —4 Charisma: Thri‐kreen are fast, but their alien
mindset makes it difficult for them to relate to
humanoids; furthermore, their “clutch–mind” instincts
leave them with a poor sense of themselves as
individuals.
• Monstrous Humanoid: Thri‐kreen are not subject to
spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm
person or dominate person.
• Medium: Thri‐kreen receive no advantages or
penalties due to size.
• Thri‐kreen base land speed is 40 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Sleep Immunity. Thri‐kreen do not sleep, and are
immune to sleep spells and similar effects. Thri‐kreen
spellcasters and manifesters still require 8 hours of rest
before preparing spells.
• Natural Armor: Thri‐kreen have a +2 natural armor
bonus to AC due to their naturally tough and resistant
chitin.
• Multiple Limbs: Thri‐kreen have four arms, and thus
can take the Multiweapon Fighting feat (MM 304) instead
of the Two‐Weapon Fighting feat. Thri‐kreen can also take
the Multiattack feat. (These are not bonus feats).
• Natural Weapons: Thri‐kreen may make bite and
claw attacks as a full round action. Their primary claw
attack does 1d4 points of damage for each of their four
claws. Their secondary bite attack, deals 1d4 points of
damage, and has a chance to poison. A thri‐kreen can
attack with a weapon (or multiple weapons) at its normal
attack bonus, and make either a bite or claw attack as a
secondary attack.
• Leap (Ex): Thri‐kreen are natural jumpers, gaining a
+30 racial bonus to all Jump checks.
• Deflect Arrows: Thri‐kreen gain the benefit of the
Deflect Arrows feat.
• Poison (Ex): A thri‐kreen delivers its poison
(Fortitude save DC 11 + Con modifier) with a successful
bite attack. The initial damage is 1d6 Dex, and the
secondary damage is paralysis. A Thri‐kreen produces
enough poison for one bite per day.
• Weapon Familiarity: To thri‐kreen, the chatkcha and
gythka are treated as martial rather than exotic weapons.
These weapons are more common among thri‐kreen
than among other races.
• Thri kreen have a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks in
sandy or arid areas.
• Automatic Languages: Kreen. Bonus Languages:
Common, Dwarven, Elven, Entomic, Saurian, and Terran.
• Favored Class: Psychic warrior.
• Level Adjustment: +2.

Some of that reads as wrong in my head, but most is correct. I will get back to you by tonight 2200 MST

Side note: doing comparisons by memory while dehydrated and frustrated at work = notsogood.

The above is accurate.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:41, Sat 23 Oct 2021.

So how many attacks and at what penalties?

With just claws and bite?

With weapon (and bite)?

How does Ambidexterity, Multiattack, and/or Multiweapon Fighting change things?

Can a Thri-kreen use 2 shields at the same time? (Or 3 or 4, but thats just silly).

In reply to Che-kri'Qh (msg # 23):

Two Shields? Technically yes, but only get the benefit of 1 (Stacking) 4 shields? A Thri Kreen Fighter can use 4 normal shields as a single Tower shield. Their is a feat for it fighters get for free, I doubt anyone else would take it.

Multidexterity is in Monster Manual as is Multiatack and Multi-Wrapon fighting. With 5 natural weapons, on a Full Attack, 1 claw is -2 all other attacks are -9 (5 Secondary 4 Offhand) . Multidexterity gets rid of the Offhand and Multiatack drops Secondary down to -2.

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 19):

2 got rid of them, one reason I don't Like 2 as much. 3 brought them back, more streamlined and balanced, and resultantly less COOL. However losing 80% Cool from "Over 9000" is stinky pretty cool.

And a Thri-Kreen with DEX+WIS+NA to AC, and Flurry of Blows for 5 attacks at -2 Each, and (i may not have mentioned) Racial weapons as Monk Weapons...sure, the Deflect Arrow ability of Monk 2nd Level is wasted, but I named this game the way I did for a reason.

What about is using a mix of weapons and claws/bite attacks?

One at -2, others at -9, Multidexterity removes the -4 for Offhand, Multiattack/Multiweapon-fighting reduces secondary to -2 for bite/claw and weapon respectively?

Are we starting at first level or second (primary and secondary)?

Is Str or Dex the prime requisite for Fighters?
This message was last edited by the player at 22:31, Sat 23 Oct 2021.

For full effect, free reign -2 all attacks, weapons and Natural, you would need MultiDex, MultiAtt, and MultiWeapon. (or a monk using Flurry of Blows with Monk Weapons...but no shield)

Staring Second Max HP, 3rd will be average or rolled.

Fighter is STR.

So, multi-dexterity and multi-attack at 1st level.

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 28):

And if going Fighter, MultiWeapon as Bonus feat at 3rd, leaving the 3rd level feat available.

Rangers fight as if they have Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting when wearing no or light armor.  For kreen, would these be Multidexterity and Multi-Weapon Fighting?

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 30):

Giving Rangers TWF was a plot to destroy TSR, and it worked.

Rangers get Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot instead, Useable with Thrown.

As Kreen, if a Ranger wants to play into the racial proclivity for the Gyrhka, said ranger may swap back to Ambi&TWF for the double weapon use, instead. It would not be Multi-X, however.

Okay.  Can chatkchas return when thrown still?

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 32):

Kreen made non-magic/psionic chatkchas return on a miss. A hit removes the needed kinetic energy.

On that note, I see each of you starting with a gythka and 4 chatkchas. If you want one of these items to be "enchanted" it can be a Chatkchas of Returning (8k value) but that will require missing out on new "loot" until your challenge readiness requires more. Likewise, a Gythka can be +1 on both ends, withe the same restriction.

What are good creatures to have as Favored Enemies in the area?

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 34):

Animals, Beasts, and Vermin represent the types of prey your tribe has been eating. Your location has been quite secure for at least 2 Kreen-generations; nothing has preyed upon you and no sentient enemy has been seen in more than 20 years.


Are any of you having problems with the character sheets?

I am a bit - the formatting is a bear.  Every time I get to the skills section my eyes glaze over and I re-re-re-reconsider shifting all my ability scores around to make a telepath.  Then I re-re-re-re-realize how bad it is and put it back to being an egoist or nomad and call it a day.

I will steel myself and have it finished off as an egoist tonight.

Been having some issues with time.  We're three people down at my job, and I've nbeen working a bit of overtime each day.  Then had to be at work Saturday at 07:30 after having worked until 01:30.  Then, got rear-ended on the way to work today, which caused me to rear-end a car, that rear-ended another car....

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 37):

We are still in a really good place to wait/pause.

Tbh the formatting is terrible.  It's best to make a table with pipes (|) instead of that weird table code.  What I did was copy and paste from the displayed table to libreoffice, which gave me a table, fill in the info, then convert table to pipe (after adding a column on each side to get the start/end pipes) and paste that back into the sheet to replace the corresponding section.

Does this mean we don't have flexibility in starting equipment?  Do I need to redo mine?

In reply to K'Krik'Kra (msg # 40):

My list was a minimum.

Bows and other items primarily made of wood are going to be hard to come by.

Leather and Chitin armor is available, but armor made for a Kreen is more expensive or less protective because it has to make sure the breathing ports are not blocked...I am certain that none of you have had to try breathing through masks... ... well ok, that's just not funny anymore....

You should be starting with 900 gp of equipment, each. This is limited by availability, of course...No Magic items, though Psionic equivalents are available. By allowing 1 magic psionic weapon, I am borrowing against what you will be earning later, but giving you a chance you might not have for a while...your first enemies are Ants.

Well bows can be made of bone/horn right?  That should be easier.  I don't know if it's actually written up as a material though, if it is it's probably 3.5.

What is the cost mod for kreen armor?

In reply to K'Krik'Kra (msg # 42):

20% Markup (×1.2) not required for Mystic (Magic/Psionic) armor as the "magic" adjusts. If someone wants to start with magic armor the same thing applies as for weapons...your future "Earnings" will be reduced until you are at the right "level" of money to experience.

Would Improved Natural Armor be considered a bonus feat for Fighters and Psi-Warriors?

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 44):

What source is it from? I can't find the original source material.

In reply to Apotheosis (msg # 45):

Found it in MMIII.

I am inclined to allow it. My thoughts are convoluted and hard to express; basically:

It's not that great a Feat
This is Athas

So sure.

Two more questions:
Do the find elves very tasty as they did back in 2nd edition?
Are they capable of imitating the Common tongue with their clicks and buzzes, or must they find some other way to be understood?

In reply to Klik-Cho'Kik (msg # 47):

A) Technically, yes. However there haven't been any Elves near your home for longer than you have been alive, so you wouldn't have tested then.

B) yes, and it's something you would have been taught, so your free languages are Kreen and Common.

The kreen chased hem all away.  There is, however, the racial memories....
I always expected them to understand Common....