The Star Wars is intended to be a Star Wars just for us. I want to leave as much as possible up to you as players, since you have some slight numerical advantage against me as basically an uncooperative player with delusions of divinity. There are... a few points, as a Star Wars fan and a member of Star Wars fandom that I'm unwilling to budge on, however. And a few points I'd like to offer for your consideration. This isn't a Worldbuilding thread, so player participation is welcomed but not required.

First things first:

• There are no Gray Jedi. The Force has a Light Side and a Dark Side, but there is no "middle" between them. Characters are never fully Light or Dark, but they are always moving either toward the Light or toward the Dark, and Jedi only have a limited amount of grace before moving toward the Dark means falling. This is not negotiable; I'm not going to use a karma meter to keep track of Light and Dark, but I expect people to roleplay their Force powers and their behavior in harmony.
• Light and Dark are not Good and Evil. The Light is serenity, acceptance and, yes, benevolence. A Light character doesn't have to be a hero, and many Light NPCs really aren't, but they can't act like a villain for very long without falling. The Dark is passion, aggression, and destruction. A Dark Side character can be a hero for a very long time, as long as they're surrounded by villains-- but a Dark Side character cannot abide peace and harmony for very long, either, without falling. Sith either die as heroes... or lives long enough to see themselves become villains.
• The Force is Magic. There is no technology that can measure, restrict, or control a living being's connection to the Force. It permeates all living beings, and all non-living matter, and it is invited or invoked by the emotional state of Force users. Force "powers", as seen in the movies are the smallest fraction of the depth-- and breadth-- of the Force.

Now... that aside, here are some things that are up for discussion.

• Skippy? As noted above, the Force is magic and cannot be controlled by technological means-- you can't just pour a liter of Snoke juice in your astromech's gas tank and invent Optimus Prime. You can't install a bunch of khyber crystals into a very confused GNK unit and turn it into a Force battery. But... a self-aware, self-motivated droid who has its own thoughts and feelings and it's own "mental state" outside of its programming? I am not opposed to this idea, if... anyone likes it and noone hates it.
• Ritual Magic Hey, this is Star Wars, but we're using the D&D rules. Sith Alchemy used to be a real canonical thing, and I think more-powerful lightsabers should be enchanted (preferably by their owners) rather than engineered. Generally, the Force needs to get weirded up, especially with "Tech Magic" being a thing in this ruleset.
• Force Alignment The sw5e ruleset has variant rules for Force Alignment that provide thematic Light Side/Dark Side benefits. It looks pretty cool, except it's attached to a BioWare-style karma meter instead of anything that resembles how the Light Side and Dark Side work in non-vidya canon. I would like to have... something to represent a character's moral trajectory and access to Light/Dark powers.
• Holocrons. Holocrons? Holocrons. Pertinent to everything above, what kind of information do they contain, what kind of benefits can they bestow? Are they the object of quests, or do they just kinda... turn up? What makes them different from the way everyone else in the galaxy stores information? What role do they play in the formation of Force sects and the development of individual Force users?

This message was last edited by the GM at 13:45, Sat 23 Oct 2021.

I really like that you've dispensed with grey force users.  In terms of those who straddle the fence, and perch on it comfortably.

I've yet to see that used as anything other than a way to have all the powers & perks, and none of the prices, consequences or drawbacks.   As well as a moral high ground (highground!) from which to preach to others.

In fantasy, I tend to favor magic systems where anyone can dabble without consequence. But great levels of power comes at a cost, even in the name of the most noble of causes.

My impression has been that a devoted light-side practitioner advances by reducing the ego, and becoming more & more one with the whole of life.   Whereas a dark-sider ramps up and super-charges their ego, asserting the "I, and I alone" perspective to greater and greater heights.

You can't do both at once.   And, they both have a cost at the individual/personal level, if you're after big power.

 I would like to have... something to represent a character's moral trajectory and access to Light/Dark powers.

Back in the 90s, we played the Chaosium rpg for Michael Moorcock's Young Kingdoms. (Elric, etc.)

In that setting you've got the forces of Law, Chaos, and the Balance.

Each character accumulated points in those three things, based on their actions, not what they professed, or spouted on about.   'Alignment' was based on which one had the most points, mostly.    Though you might, for example, have a devotee of Law with a high Chaos score, if they were using a lot of magic (a chaotic act, in that setting), for some reason.

I liked that system. Though it might be a bear for you, to give and track points with a group this size.

Skippy? = No; please no force using droids     Ritual Magic = Yes; weirded up force is good (will comment more later)    Holocrons = Will chime in later.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:00, Sat 23 Oct 2021.

Skippy: Since kyber crystals are infused with the thoughts and feelings of force users, it could be possible that a force user invested himself into a kyber crystal implanted in a droid much like a lightsaber. It would be almost like a sapience template that the droid “self” would evolve from and develop its own unique personality.

Ritual Magic:I have read through most of the powers section but can’t remember all of them off the top of my head. Ritual magic for the Sith could be alchemy while Jedi would be more like drawings in the dirt with crystals arranged in a specific pattern like in the Mandalorian when the “the child” sits on a rock in the middle of a Stone Hedge type of formation to send out a call to other force users in the galaxy. As far as mechanically, I think most utilitarian force powers with a casting time of 1 min or greater could be used as ritual magic. I don’t think you should have to spend valuable force points to cast Comprehend Languages to go speak to a planet’s native people you know you’re going to meet.

Force Alignment: One easy way as mentioned in another thread is the color of their lightsaber/aura which can change over time. Another is physical representations of the spiritual change. One example from the movies is that all those that have completely fallen to the dark side have yellow eyes.

Holocrons:I like the idea of holocrons in that not everybody can access them. Even a slicer just shakes his head and walks away. This in a way provides the most secure information storage in the galaxy. They could also be storage devices for physical items. There’s also the possibility that they come in all shapes and sizes. The “concept” of a holocron is a device or container that requires the correct mastery and focus of one side of the force to open or activate it (dark side for red holocrons and light side for blue). A base or temple could be a large version of a holocron which has been represented in this broad concept in canon. In a Sith temple, it took a master and an apprentice (Darth Maul and Ezra) to work in tandem to bypass the temple obstacles. Yes it seems a little transformer-ish.

No Skippy, please.

Ritual Magic good.

Force Alignment; seems to me the Paladin’s Vow a la 3.xe and earlier is the way to go with this. It’s not so fragile that a minor infraction would shatter your connection, but that a pattern of behavior inconsistent with your code would mean your inner psyche wasn’t conforming itself to what it needs to be to channel the Force as you’re accustomed, and once fallen, bang: levels of Blackguard.

Holocrons; no opinion.

One request, per RedLetterMedia: can the Jedi Order’s dress not be the clothes Obi-Wan went into hiding with? Or imagine Obi-Wan to have dressed differently so as to, I dunno, actually hide from the Empire and Vader? Man, sometimes the prequels still chap.

No Skippy. I don't like Skippy. There's a thin line between a doid becoming completely self-aware (I thought they were which was why mind-wipes because a true AI could be dangerous) and then midichlorians and droids tossing lightning bolts.

Right, I jest but still, no Skippy.



Which I kind of like. What I don't like is the withering effect the Dark Side has on those who use it as it was never canon. It actually popped up in a bit of fan-fic to explain why the Emperor looked the way he did (he was old?) but, per the movie-canon it was caused by his Force Lightning reflecting back on him courtesy of Mace Windu. There never was any withering in canon. We hates it! **hisses**

We can do this. It's less of a contradiction here, because the Rise of the Empire and Obi-Wan and Yoda going into hiding hasn't happened yet, might not ever happen, and would happen differently if it did. But if it reminds you too much, unpleasantly, of how much the prequels undermined the integrity of the original trilogy... I want Count Dooku's red cape to be distinct and emblematic of the Serennian Order, with the Jedi medallions being something I cribbed from pre-prequel EU about Corellian Jedi.

So... how do we want the heterodox Coruscanti Jedi Order-- and their authorized subsidiaries-- to look?

In reply to GM Shroompunk (msg # 6):

Carmelite monks?

White robes over black cassocks; the black reminding them of where the easy path leads. Also explains Luke and Anakin’s black clothes: Luke because he wasn’t yet a full Jedi.

Third photo down: https://www.carmelite.org/family/friars

Skippy is not canonical as far as I understand, and there are some hefty canonical things mentioned that oppose the idea of force-wielding droids. For one, the Force can only be wielded by living things (So sayeth Yoda) and second, droids are not alive (quite recently mentioned explicitly in The Mandalorian). And then there's... midi-chorians. We all love them. I know it. Let's have a round of applause for that travesty. Droids don't have those. Alright. So Skippy is a figment of the imagination or a mascot for jedi padawan. Let's leave it at that.

Anyhow, in the Star Wars Saga rpg this whole discussion was 'solved' by allowing players to use the Shards species who are a crystalline lifeform that can be installed in droid bodies. If you really want to play a force-sensitive droid, just say you're playing one of those, slap on the droid racial stats and all our canon concerns can be put to rest. *crowd cheers*

Ritual magic isn't in the rules as far as I can see, so let's not break what's already a delicate system, shall we? Plenty to play around with in SW5E without trying to bring in something external.

Force Alignment: Nice idea, awful system in the variant rules.

Holocrons: Why they're full of ancient teachings of course!
"A little impatience will spoil great plans."
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
"A fall into a ditch makes you wiser."
Basically like fortune cookies. Only thing special about them is that only force-wielders can access them. Some may use them to pass secret messages I guess.  Other than that they offer no mechanical benefit.

This is the Way.

No Force-sensitive droids please.

No opinions on Force Rituals or Alignment, I'm bad at mechanic balancing.

Holocrons should be McGuffins in my opinion. They should hold whatever the GM needs them to. They should be rare, I don't think anyone alive knows how to create new ones (at least this is my headcanon).

So maybe this belongs in Factions, but are there missionary orders of Jedi, or are the Jedi not a proselytizing philosophy?

If not, no worries: Factions thread there I come! But if there are within the Yoda-Jedis I’ll go with them.

All the Jedi are proselytizing.