For general discussion of issues Out Of Character.

I still need to do some tweaking for the game mechanics, mostly with regard to the characters skills which I hope we can sort out before the game gets under way.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:26, Wed 13 Oct 2021.

Welcome aboard folks, have a read through the character generation thread and roll some dice, and please ask any questions before we get started :)

Looking forward to the game.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:51, Wed 13 Oct 2021.

Do I work the character up in public or private?

I'm not entirely sure how the skill thing works I'm afraid.

I think we get 3 primary skills (from any of the primary categories), 1 vocational skill, 1 hobby skill, and 1 language though I'm not sure if that's in addition to our native language or IS our native language. No idea how to figure out how many skill points we have or what level the skills are at yet.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:13, Wed 13 Oct 2021.

In reply to Mr. Strauser (msg # 6):

I understand the language, hobby and vocation bit but it's the other bit I was confused by.  Since many of the other skills are called subskills, I wondered whether what we got was for example, classical education, and two subskills or whether the choices was three of four skills or just three subskills.

This is correct, I am adapting the skills from another home brewed game where there were 'classes' for the skills, for this game I am not going to worry about those 'classes' (which is where the sub-skills reference comes from, treat each individual skill or sub-skill as a skill).
With regard to languages , everyone will start with their own native language however if you want to be able to read and write your 'native' language you will need the literacy skill.  So you have the option at the start of the game to be literate or you culd have a second language.  Make sense?

You will be starting with level 1 skills and as you earn X Points you can use those points to spend on new skills or improving existing skills.

You can do this whichever way you are most comfortable with however I have made a change to the ability scores as the previous version as for a much more combat oriented type of game and I realize my description was not very clear.

"Roll 4d100 once for your Ability pair.
Keep rolling until you have at least 2 scores of 50 or more."

So roll your 4d100 and apply the 4 dice rolls to the table to see what your scores are.  This means you will need to have rolled at least 56 or greater.  If you don't get that with your first set of dice rolls, then roll all four again.  Keep going until you get at least 2 dice rolls of 56 or better.  This will ensure your character has at least 2 scores higher than average.

I have tweaked the Skills structure so that characters can essentially be one of 5 'classes'.  There are 4 Professions as well as a Practical class.  Once the game is under way you will be able to learn skills from all classes under the appropriate circumstances.

I have added a new map to the Main Game map, there are 4 double berths below the Captain's quarters.  When you have completed your character sheets you can select a berth.  It would be unseemly in 1809 for unmarried men and women to share a berth.

Sophie will take the sternmost and portmost berth (furthest back and on the left - ship's left, not page's left)

Is there steerage passage? If so, Strauser sleeps in a hammock in the lower deck hold.

Also, suggesting a "class" for gentlefolk - those who make money from their land (or family holdings) rather than a profession; gentlemen and women who never expect to have to work a trade or learn practical skills, spending their days in hobbies, leisure, and social maneuvering.

Q: What's the difference between a level 1 and a level 2 skill?
This message was last edited by the player at 13:02, Thu 14 Oct 2021.

Oh yes, I echo Herr Strausser's question.  I imagine the answer to be level two being two skill points and level one being one (and presumably the professionals are all one level)?

I imagine the Classical Education is as much a 'profession' for gentlefolks as for Lawyers and bankers.  That's how I saw it anyway.

I used the term 'class' as in 'character class' like in D&D i.e. Fighter, Cleric, Thief etc, not Social Class.  It is a grouping of similar skills, so there are 4 'Professions' for want of a better terminology and then all the other skills I grouped as Practical and divided them into Vocations and Hobbies.

So the Upper Class characters have access to the "Classical Education" skills for the nobility etc  Military types get the weapons skills and then We have the Medical Profession and the Scientists.

The Lower Classes have the more 'practical skills'.

Not all of the 'Practical skills' require more than 1 skill level however the ones that do have more levels enable characters to gain a higher chance of success in that skill. e.g. BLACKSMITH: EQUINES only makes horseshoes etc so only 1 level is required.  BLACKSMITH: MAKE TOOLS: Success Rate: 70% + 10%/skill level gains a higher chance of success at second level

So if you have a skill, you get x+10% (or whatever it says) or x+20%  if it's two level?

Additional question:

I'm going practical, which gives me 2 skills at level 2. However, only one of my practical skills actually uses skill levels. Can I put the other level towards one of my other skills?

This is the case with many skills however there are some skills that are calculated based on an attribute e.g.

BAKER: Success Rate: 60% + half INT
Training Time: 3 months

This character is qualified to work as a baker. With a skill of 80 or higher, they could work as a desert chef in a restaurant or hotel.

You cannot put the additional level to a Professional skill as Professional skills cost more.

You can have extra levels of Ability based skills and add 10%/level so you can have Carpenter or Bricklayer level 2 and add 10%

Or you could consider a different skill to take advantage of the extra starting level.

Ah, I didn't know ability-based skills could be improved, good to know. Thanks!

I am still tweaking the skills for this game, trying to use some common sense.  Second level in those kinds of skills would be like being a master tradesmen.

I am modifying rules I developed for a much more combat oriented game set in the civil war era so I have removed a bunch of engineering skills from that game and fleshing out some of the non-combat skills which will be much more useful in this kind of game  There are still a few inconsistencies that I will try to sort out before we launch into the game proper.

I am hoping we can get at least a couple more players to join before we kick off but you guys have been a big help just ironing out some of the details in character generation.

I have added Skill List thread to make looking for skills a bit easier than having to scroll through the entire list of skills and have also added the following modifications to the Start Up for characters.

Military characters automatically start with MELEE WEAPONS Level 1
Natural Sciences characters automatically start with FINDING DIRECTIONS & NAMING Skills
Classical Education characters automatically start with Literacy and Society Level 1 Skills
Medical characters automatically start with ADMINISTERING DRUGS & DIAGNOSIS Skills level 1

Due to the physical demands of living as a commoner in this day and age, all Practical Characters gain an additional 5 points on their Strength or Stamina.

Ooh, does the latest change mean I should add Society and one other (since I already chose literacy?)

In reply to Jane Sophie Swift (msg # 23):

Yes you can make those changes and Mr. Strauser can add +5 to either STR or STA.

We have a third player has joined the game and I expecting we may have one or two more yet to join as well so we probably have a couple of days before we start the game proper.

If anyone has any questions or suggestions, particularly about skills I am still working on those.  I have have added a few new skills and am re-arranging some skills as well, mostly in the Natural Sciences area.  I also had to remove a couple of skills as Railroads are not in public use yet and Photography hasn't been invented yet either, not that either of those skills was going to be of much use for this game :)

This was going to be a question about if there was any difference between Literacy appearing under the Classical Education category and Language category beyond one costing four times as much per level as the other (considering CE Professionals get it automatically), but then got to thinking (yeah dangerous thing).

I'd suggest altering Literacy's description under the language category to-

'A character with this skill can read and write any language they can speak, including Indian languages.  They also have been taught the basics of arithmetic.  Whether schooled formally or at home so they can read the Bible, the three R's are recognized as the basic foundation for many trades and professions though the education of children in the late 18th and early 19th centuries was largely piecemeal because they were needed at home for farm work or other labor.  The referee can require a skill check in cases where the material is complicated or the character doesn't get much practice.'

Then alter the skill category of 'Classical Education' to 'Humanities' changing Literacy under that heading to 'Classical Education' and the skill entry for it-

'Classical Education includes Literacy but represents a more formal education using an approach used since ancient times resurrected in the 12th and 13th centuries.  Classical education is a general survey of the Trivium (Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric) and Quadrivium (Arithmetic, Geometry, Music, and Astronomy).  By the early 19th century, classical education also embraced a broad-based study of literature, history, art, and geography.

While classical education generally infers a more Western approach, a character with an Eastern origin would have a classical education founded on their culture's core canon such as the Four Books and Five Classics that are required study for China's Imperial examination.  Or on the study and understanding of the ancient texts the Vedas, or through a Madrasa or Ijazah for those with an Indian or Islamic education background respectively.

Classical education represents the knowledge that every educated person should know from their culture, but in broad strokes.  Other skills that have some crossover with the classical education skill are more specialized knowledge or training.  As such the referee may apply a penalty to a skill check using classical education in some circumstances.'

Other than that I'd change 'Natural Sciences' to just Sciences so that it includes Formal Sciences (like mathematics, calculus, statistics) and Applied Sciences (various Engineering fields and other practical applications/technology).  Chemistry is probably something to add to the category and technically Medicine is an applied science but is a bit of an odd duck considering that iirc you could go straight to medical school (4 year schooling) without an undergrad degree until around the 1920's (and then intern or basically apprentice under a practicing physician).

Anyway, psychiatry for the mentally ill (rather than just custodial care) basically had its start around the mid 18th century.  So some psycho-social aspects may be transferred from Star Frontiers but I'd put it under the Medical category directly and probably use the term 'Alienism' for psycho-pathology and probably move hypnosis over there as well (though Lurgan Sahib in Kipling's "Kim" was probably more a Classical Education profession given the breadth of his knowledge & skill set).

On military, I'd suggest adding an 'Artillery' skill (and geometry, ballistics, mathematics a big part of that as well).  The Royal Navy is the exemplar for the period for naval officer training (starting between the ages of 11 to 13 as midshipmen and sitting for examination and/or boards for promotion) but running a ship up to a fleet is more than just the Sailor skill so I'd go with 'Naval Science' (which would also count as the sailor skill as well as handle the logistics & command of a crew up to a fleet).  And conversely 'Military Science' would be the logistics, command, maneuver of soldiery, and handle military engineering (as it's version of sailor...handling fortification construction, siege work, etc).
This message was last edited by the player at 17:59, Fri 15 Oct 2021.

I'd been assuming it was the same skill, just easier for someone with a classical education to learn.

Perhaps humanities ought also to include what Oxbridge called 'Greats' (Greek, Latin, Ancient History and Philosophy)?

Also, Greetings Gospodin Severin. Are you the Severin of whom she in Ermine furs speaks so slightly?

Hah...had to look for the reference (Venus in Furs correct?).  Actually Severin in this case is a reference French branch of a noble family located on the border of Germany (different last name(s) depending on what side of the border you are one but essentially same family but different branches).  Considering Victor is 19 (doing the math) he was born in exile a year after the revolution (leading to his overly optimistic first name;-).  I haven't finalized his background but it zigzags a bit.

As far as the 'Greats', they're a part of it (called the Great Books or nowadays I think more the term the 'Western canon' is used).  Education changes a bunch in the 19th and up to the mid-20th century but in the early part of the 19th classical education is still pretty much the traditional Trivium and Quadrivium with the addition of things like literature, history, poetry, art, drama, etc.  Public education doesn't really get off the ground a bit more universally until the 1820s or so (though Pennsylvania, Virginia, & Massachusetts have public systems by then, the UK sortof doesn't but does have charity schools or I think they were called infant schools... and some instruction via Sunday school).

Thought 'classical education' as a skill replacement for literacy would be a way to show a bit of class divide as well that the poorer classes could be educated in the three R's but those with means went a step further with their kids.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:36, Fri 15 Oct 2021.

In reply to Victor Severin (msg # 25):

As this game is going to be based on European characters, the skills have a European bent to them, I am not trying to make the rules 'all things to all men'.

I do have an artillery skill however I deliberately left it out of these rules as the ship is an unarmed merchant vessel and I have no intention of introducing artillery into this game.

I do have a Chemistry skill as well which I will probably add to the Natural Sciences 'class'.

I name the 'classes' of Classical Education and Natural Sciences that way specifically to add 19th century 'flavor'

I have added the skills of Chemistry and Geology to the "Natural Sciences".

I will be bumping the 'looking for players thread in two days' but that will be the last opportunity for other players to begin the game as part of the original group.

I have had one more player confirm they will be joining the game but it might be a week or two before they begin posting, I have already developed a story to allow for their slightly delayed appearance in the game so I expect to begin the game in a couple of days.

Once we get under way there will only be limited opportunities for any new players to join the game.

If anyone drops out or ghosts the playing group (does not post for a 2 week period) then they will most likely be written out of the game (wander off, never to be seen or heard from again)

Ooh.  I just realised.  If you have any chemists on board, they can isolate phosphorus (from urine - the first new element discovered in modern times, namely 1669) and they can discover iodine (from seaweed - first discovered in 1811).

Now that I have kicked off the game I will generally wait for everyone to post at least once before I will write an update.  Thus means the pace of the game will generally be determined by the 'slowest poster' although sometimes I will post earlier if there is a need or to keep the game running smoothly.

We only have 3 confirmed players at the moment however i have a 4th who has said they will be generating a character within the week and I have run a final add for players.  The first week or two might take a little while to get into a groove, so bear with us :)

Since Sophie is upper class and Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1922, surely, while her birthplace is Dublin, her nationality is British?

Lets go with country of birth for now

Fair enough.

Alright we now have six players, more than enough for this type of game, welcome to the new folks.  I will wait for everyone to complete character generation and then make their first post before I write the next update.

Please make sure you have a description of your character available for public viewing on your sheet as well as any information about your character that would be available to the other passengers/crew, background etc.

Howdy folks, I'll be joining in here. I'll hopefully have everything sorted on my end shortly.

Hello there Wilbur and greetings to Christopher and Craig as well.

Hello there. Glad to be here.

Main map has been updated, hopefully Wilbur Francis-Wright will come out of his cabin soon :)

I have run one last add for players if they can send an RTJ and get their character generation completed in the next couple of days but I am not going to be waiting for anyone from this point onwards.

Let's push on folks, show me how you are going to deal with your predicament.  If any new players join that's a bonus but for now let's assume those who have posted are all the active players.

Can Craig or Jane hear each other or is the weather (and ship creaking etc) too loud?

Both groups can hear voices so if you call out loud enough you can make yourself heard, the wind has died down

Another tip folks, I have been slowly adding bits of info to the Game Wiki, things you would know from being on the ship.

Edited my last post, given that I had missed the state of the Captain's cabin the first time around.

Left his destination vague to allow a little more info on which ways might still be available.

Strauser and Elena both pulled out of the game today. Nothing more frustrating as a DM on RPoL than investing time helping new players with character generation only to have them pull out :(
Let's move on, both characters will be written out of the story ASAP, there was never any intention of having NPCs.  I will eliminate Elena from the story as she had barely exited her cabin and deal with Strauser ASAP.

Hey, I'll post tomorrow. I had my booster shot yesterday, so I've had a fever all day.

A reminder to those who have not posted in the Preface thread, this is an opportunity to earn a couple of X Points before being stranded in the island.

And for everyone, the pace of the game will be pretty much determined by you, the players.  I am usually online to check posts most days so if you are searching for something or attempting something that may or may not require a skill, I can usually post an update most days.

I will try to get in a decently-sized post in that thread tomorrow. :)

Craig, are you going to take the lead on getting Chris off the rocks or?

Yeah, was waiting on a reply to his last efforts and then once that's handled I figured we could probably approach it as a team. It looks like we are all going to have to cross the water anyway.

Perhaps, depending on which way the tide is travelling.  If this is high tide, we may be able to walk across the beach.

I hink Chris is waiting for someone on the ship to reply folks, he is only about 20 yards from the ship, anyone on deck would have heard him

Okay.

Map has been updated to show where rocks pierce the hull and I have added some broken masts, sail cloth and a couple of raft sections.

I have uploaded some images of the rocks you wrecked on, the shoreline and the potential landing site to Map Group 1.  I will try to find more images in the future to help with descriptions like this.

Heh...I was writing up my post when you posted those pics;-).

Using a raft I suppose we could throw a line from their if we don't have the arm for 20 yards but yeah, don't want to get close to those rocks with it unless there is no choice.

And probably want to set up some sort of anchor line (with hook or something) to the shoreline so we don't have to get as close there either (or go up or down coast too far searching for a landing).

Is there a gaff hook available?  Or cork?

I don't understand why you want to go to the rocks that the ship is wrecked on.  There is nowhere that the cow or donkey can actually stand, nor is there anywhere that human being could lie down to sleep and there is no shelter from the elements.  There is also the possibility that at high tide the rocks will actually be submerged.

I don't at least.  I (we) don't know how far we'd have to go to find a reasonably safe landing on the island's shore though (or if it is even low or high tide right now) so there might not be a choice...so better to have something prepped (like a line to throw ashore and use as a guide-on) in case we need it rather than not if we have to scramble up on the rocks to move inland.

My understanding is the Chance is on a rocky outcrop offshore, that Christopher is on another (smaller) rocky crag and that the shore/beach of the island is also bit rugged from description as well and not just a pebbly beach (meaning potential jagged underground rocks as well even if it).  But to clarify, Victor has only talked (or pantomimed) about taking the raft from the outcrop the Chance is on to the beach of the island and thinks it's a bad idea to use it to pull Christopher off the crag unless there is no other option.

Christopher is already back on Chance, he was able to climb up the rocks that actually pierced the hull and then use the top of the hole to get within a few feet of the railing.  Please see msg #82
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:56, Sun 07 Nov 2021.

Sophie thinks that once we have a rope attached, we can get from that rock to the place with vegetation, using the rope as a guide for the rafts or even pulling them like ancient river ferries.

Ya. Climbed back up on her. I have an idea for those animals... I was thinking barrels tied to either side and just drag them along. They won't be happy... but they would stay buoyant. Haven't brought it up IC. I was trying to press the importance of getting the humans off first.

Nobody has been able to see the shore line over there, just some greenery in the distance that is not actually visible from the ship, Chris was able to see part of that from the rocks.

Have we been here long enough to know whether the tide's coming in or out?

Yup missed the fact that Christopher was on the same crag of rocks the Chance was and got hung up on the fact he was 20 yards away.

As far as the cow issue, yeah my thinking as well to focus on getting the humans off first and then making as many trips as possible to get what we can off the wreck before it fully washes out.

The barrel 'water wings' for the cow is an idea and I'm sort of hoping (forlornly) that some of us might have some farm experience (or rather skills;-).  Not sure how well a cow will do swimming in chop, how far they can swim, or how well this particular one will do but Severin likely hasn't a clue all things considered which is why he's thinking of coming back for it with the raft after the first trip.

I don't think they have to really be able to swim if we can keep them buoyant. Idea being that's what life jackets are about. Unconscious or non-swimmer... head above water no problem. In theory of course

These discussions about things your characters have no knowledge of are basically metagaming folks.  Your characters are in the 19th century and have limited knowledge and experiences, please stick to what your characters know and how they would react based on their knowledge, not your knowledge as players.

Your characters have no local knowledge of the tides, the seas are still choppy from the storm and you are not close enough to the shore to actually observe any tidal changes.

Which way did the rats go?

Away from the dogs :)

Ooh. I don't blame them. Cave canem as they say in Rome.

But seriously, if that is a question you want answered in character then it needs to be asked in character, you can only know what your characters see and experience.  It is now after mid day, probably well after the rats have already left the ship.

I suspect the Rats left the ship in Cape Town to be honest and if anyone had noticed, they'd have got off there as well.  It wasn't that serious a question because Sophie probably has the same superstitions as everyone else.

I'm sure we noticed the direction Strausser took but I was asking about Rattus rattus or Rattus norvegicus (which names will not be part of a classical education because Carl Linnaeus won't even be 40 years dead).

Based on the amount of time you have taken so far, it is highly unlikely you will be able to make more than one trip to shore today and you don't have room to take any of the larger animals on the rafts you have constructed so far.

Figured as much but the goal is to get the larger animals out of the water so if the ship doesn't break up we can try to get them off the wreck the following day.

Also if she's on deck, there's an increased chance the sow can swim to shore.

Craig hasn't logged in for a week and has not responded to my rMail, we may have lost him folks so lets try and move things along.

Just a poke to Wilbur (and others)...it's pretty clear that to get the larger animals to (temporary) safety is likely going to require the muscle power of the group.

I figure our plan of action should be to get the animals on the top deck, load up the raft with supplies, tools, and what smaller animals we can manage and go to shore leaving the big animals on the wreck overnight (and hopefully retrieving them in the morning).

I'm of course open to other input but considering the clock is ticking, please post some sort of 'actionable' post for the GM that contributes to the group's survival goal even if it's something other than Victor's Rock of Sisphus of trying to get that darn cow topside.  It doesn't have to be much, even a one liner.

Other than that, I'm not sure what we can fit on the raft.  Ideally we are going to want the carpenter's tools, initial food and water, a big pot/kettle, and whatever animals we can fit onboard with a full load of PCs (the fowl and if we can get the goats that's a bonus).
This message was last edited by the player at 02:38, Wed 17 Nov 2021.

If there are any weapons left on board, we need at least one because Strausser is armed and may be dangerous (he's definitely asocial).

Honestly, in RL I'd be very hesitant trying to take him on if he was unarmed with two armed men (muskets or otherwise).  If you read Strausser's physical description he's a monster at almost 300 lbs...definitely in strongman or circus territory (or bear wrasslin';-).

If he gets hungry, he's going to be a problem.  So all things considered, yeah he's going to be a problem;-)

Sorry on my absence. Full intention of continuing. Been a week so far bleah

In RL I'm 280 lbs but it doesn't make me a fighter.

Glad you can continue;-)  Want to do a quick post to check out and loot the captains quarters?  It's definitely on our 'to-do' list before we leave the wreck and the clock's ticking.



Modern lifestyle & diet vs. that of a early 19th century Prussian peasant who's a ship's carpenter living a very active lifestyle.  It takes a lot of calories (and expense) just to maintain weight in those sorts of conditions.  Not that it's not possible for someone to be beyond the norm but Strausser is almost certainly a stack of muscle (which is denser than fat;-) and in the size/weight range of a modern professional football linebacker.

You need a little bit of skill to hold your own in a fight but you don't need as much skill if you have 40 lbs. (or more) over your opponent in RL.  And Herr Strausser all things considered could probably realistically knock around a 'normal sized' adult male like a toddler.  Just saying thank God for game stats and mechanics;-).

I am on the road for the next couple of days, sorry for the delay folks.  The next update should be in around 48 hours.

I am back, waiting on posts from Chris and Wilbur before the next update.

Sorry... hunting season and I've been out of internet range for some time now. Regardless... back and posting now.

To help keep track of your equipment I have created a Salvage page in the Game Wiki so we know what you have retrieved.  Please add any items I have not listed to this page as we go, it will save us having to wade back through posts trying find things as the game progresses.

There is no material to make a chicken pen with, you have not reach and trees yet, just some grass and few low bushes.  looking back over recent posts it doesn't look like anyone brought any fed for the chickens either, that would have been the easiest way to keep them close by.  It would be the best part of an hour back to the rafts from here so you will get back to the dell after sundown if that is your intent?

Those were brave dogs!

Are you ready to continue after the holiday break?  Or should I wind things up?

I don't know to be honest but I'm happy to go along with everyone else.

Still here and willing.

I'm still around. :)

OK well let's continue from where we left off...

Up until now I have been keeping your list of salvage up to date in the Game Wiki, I have just added the livestock you have brought ashore.

From now on it is up to you guys to keep that up to date.

Sophie can add the Footlocker and it's contents.  Victor and Wilbur can continue adding whatever new items you recover from the ship.

I couldn't add those to the Wiki (no permission to edit) so I've added them to my character sheet instead.

Everyone should be able to edit the "Salvage" link, I only put permissions on the other links.

Ahh thanks.

I think some input from Wilbur is warranted before we move on?

Yep. It's been a long and busy week, I'll post now.

If you are continuing to fight the shark, please roll initiative and then to hit/damage rolls.  Victor should roll damage for his hit with the knife.