This is where we'll decide what type of coterie you guys will be, and what the Chronicle Tenets will be.

Do not think regency, sbirri, watchmen or marrchal would work as i am an anarch and these ones appear to be in direct conflict with that, unless of course evereyone else happens to be an anarch though i doubt it :D

Any other type can probabaly be discussed and fit. also i have retained 1 dot of advantages to put towards a domain for the coterie and have resources 4 so maybe this can also contribute to the domain if ST allows.

Asha is a Gangrel Anarch that formerly served the Camarilla and a known veteran of the sect wars after she left the ivory tower resulting in status and influence amongst the Anarchs. How would your characters feel about Asha?

Rook is a Gangrel, he claims no Sect but seems to show up more at Anarch meetings.
He started getting making himself known for his work a few years ago, when he emerged from the wilderness.  Running messages, packages, and taking care of problems that those who hired him didn't want to, or couldn't deal with personally.  He doesn't take cross-sect contracts.  As a Clan member, Rook would be more favorably inclined to Asha.

I'll pour into the coterie section more in a bit, but I already bought both a herd and a haven for Throckett. How does that interact with the coterie? I vaguely remember reading that we each get one free coterie dot? That's the only thing I saved.

"Asha is a Gangrel Anarch that formerly served the Camarilla and a known veteran of the sect wars after she left the ivory tower resulting in status and influence amongst the Anarchs. How would your characters feel about Asha?"

Throckett is a fairly youngblood (ten years dead), quite new to the city, and his backstory had him fairly isolated from other kindred. This leaves him ignorant and with no strong opinions on the other sects and while he would be deeply loyal to the Camarilla. So long as you didn't directly interfere with any of his duties he would save his judgements for later.

Maybe deciding as a group whether we're Anarch or Camarilla is a pretty good starting point? If everyone is something different it will impose difficulties on the formation of a coterie whereas if we're all part of the same Sect it mellows things out.

Well we have an indepdent, an an arch and I beleive that Nef maybe camarilla but can't say for certain. Don't think anyone should be forced to change as we don't neccesarily all have to be actual freinds or always get along. Can always find narrative reasons for a mixed coterie. Easiest would probs involve sabbat as every sect tends to hate them most haha

I can post that Nefertiti is a member of the Camarila as those that know of her to be a loyal member of the Tremere. If that helps in determining how we focus on the Coterie

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 4):

I beive you could choose to share the haven and herd as part of the domain but of course no requirement to do so. Ah missed that part about free dot for coterie, what page is that listed on? If so I have 2 dots towards the coterie.

In reply to Asha (msg # 6):

Yeah but mixing Camarilla and Anarchs doesn't make too much sense based on the metaplot. I don't think mixing Anarch and Independent or Camarilla and Independent might be too much of a problem though.

Was I the only one who left sect allegiance out of the concept since nothing was decided? Maybe I'm the black sheep

In reply to Asha (msg # 8):

Page 151, Building your Coterie:
"Every player gets one Coterie dot."

In reply to Richard Navarro (msg # 10):
I'm not 100% sure if my character is an established Camarilla. I'll update everything after work but as a short summary, if your familiar with the trope of Midnight Mass or Salem's lot: a Kindred + Protege terrorize a small town, that's basically what Throckett did with his sire pre-Shadowhold.

He's mostly unaware (much like me) of the vampire sects and fled to Shadowhold under the guise of still being a living priest when his sire was slain by hunters. Even though I'm going with a fish out of water setup I assumed that he would be immediately loyal to the camarilla, but would probably stan any sect that was organized enough (so probably not the anarchs).

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 11):

So...  Ya wanna go Sabbat?  Stop pretending to be Mine.  The bloodbags are food.  Don't fool yourself, you're no longer human.  You're beyond that now.  ;)

In reply to Richard Navarro (msg # 10):

Yeah everyone else appears to have there character allegiance already :)

@reverend seems cool, to be fair a new vamp would be expected to bend the knee to ruling faction usually (camarilla) but could potentially go independent etc. Ironically sabbat would probably suit a character with an ecclisarchy lean haha

In reply to Rook (msg # 12):

I wouldn't be against it. I don't know much about the Sabbat, other than they are the bad guys in bloodline, but Throckett would definitely have a very different interpretation of the rhetoric, especially if they think humans are just bloodbags.

Asha now do not forget to tell him that they have no problem in draining another Kindred for blood as well. :)

@Nef yeah that's true, and that'sone of reasons they are generally hated all other sects haha.

Ibe had games where anarchs, cam and independents have mixed but never seen one where sabbat mixed with anyone else haha.

If it makes things easier asha could now be independent but retaining status and influence amongst the anarchs if people have an issue with her being an an arch in the coterie :D

I personally dont have issues with her being an anarch, I just think mixing 2/3 different sects or allegiances in one coterie is a bit weird. I don't know how the ST is gonna handle the game and what we'll be getting up to which is why I can only go by metaplot and what's been said in the books, and they are pretty adamant that Camarilla (in V5) is a bit more... Not accepting of Anarchs compared to V20.

I have none and she can be useful:)

Welp, I guess I'm gonna roll Camarilla with Nefertari and the almighty Reverend!

In reply to Nefertari Panthea (msg # 15):

So long as nobody is killed, Throckett wouldn't have a problem with it. I think you can drink another Kindred's blood without killing them right?

Thin-bloods are fair game for diablerie in the city, does that mean that the Sabbat are in charge or do the Cam really not like thin-bloods that much?

OH! And Throckett is heavily against killing Kindred and Civilians (non-aggressive humans) except in the most egregious circumstances like protecting other Kindred, or saving civilians. Permanent Topor, Imprisonment, Mind Control, and the like are far more palatable to him.

In reply to Richard Navarro (msg # 19):
Woooo Cam for unlife!

True things are rockier but tons of situations where neither side would gain advantage from open war and have an uneasy  peace. Especially if sabbat or werewolves are rearing their heads. Lesser evils and all that. Asha shall be an an arch amongst camarilla infested waters :)

Fortunately Asha has been on both sides so doesn't tend to hate the individuals neccesarily as much as the system. Hopefully rook will serve as a good mediator!

That said what kind of coterie are people thinking, gang gang fits asha to a T but appreciate it is unlikely to do so for most haha. Asha is fairly flexible with the non sect specific coteries so wish to see your preffered types?

I don't see Asha having any issue with Rook considering his stance and clan and they could very well be freinds.

So thin bloods basically mean the kindred race is kind of dying out as the blood is too weak and in several generations will fade. Thin bloods are also the sign of gehenna and the end times in some kindred legends, one prominent theory being that the antideluvian (the ancient vampires) will awaken and devour the younger generations to presumably start propagating the kindred again. It is also believed by some that this is why many elders are heading to the middle East and gathering to either welcome or perhaps fight the antideluvian in gehenna.

Shadowhold is a Camarilla domain, they're just very anti-thinblood and the Sheriff is more than a little bloodthirsty. Also, do you guys wanna form the coterie under your own volition, or have the Prince make you work together?
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:40, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 20):

I am pretty sure people are gonna get killed whether that's civilians or Kindred, just so you know, but it can be very fun and interesting to play a character that is vehemently against that being forced to do things like that and seeing how they change as individuals through play.

In reply to Richard Navarro (msg # 23):

Well aware that's half the fun! He's not a combat character by any stretch of the imagination so he'll have to actually just convince people that there are better ways to deal with your problems.


@Asha, for preferred types I'm still going through it all, but I'm probably going to be against Fang Gang. The Reverend would be quite partial to Blood Cult for obvious reasons. The rest seem either not applicable (Plumaire) or something I'm totally fine working with.

@ST maybe we can try and complete the relationship map stuff and if some of us are very diametrically opposed could have th prince order it? If we are all fairly chill characters then could have gathered for convinience.

My Picks

COTERIE TYPES
 ■ blood cult: Controls a human cult and feeds from them
 ■ cerberus: Protects or guards an important location
 ■ champions: Fights for a good cause
■ commando: Fights for a master
■ day watch: Guards the undead sleepers from mortals
■ fang gang: Criminal crew, gang, or the like
 ■ hunting party: Captures humans with particular blood Resonances for others
■ maréchal: Serves and guards the lord of the city
■ nomads: Travels from place to place
 ■ plumaires: Social coterie that flocks together
■ questari: Seeks to accomplish a great enterprise or objective
■ regency: Just running things until the elder gets back
■ sbirri: Disguised and covertly inserted by a rival lord
 ■ vehme: Enforces the Masquerade
■ watchmen: Protects the city from supernatural intruders

In reply to Nefertari Panthea (msg # 26):

Here are mine

COTERIE TYPES
 ■ blood cult: Controls a human cult and feeds from them
 ■ cerberus: Protects or guards an important location
 ■ champions: Fights for a good cause
■ commando: Fights for a master
■ day watch: Guards the undead sleepers from mortals
■ fang gang: Criminal crew, gang, or the like
 ■ hunting party: Captures humans with particular blood Resonances for others
■ maréchal: Serves and guards the lord of the city
■ nomads: Travels from place to place
 ■ plumaires: Social coterie that flocks together
■ questari: Seeks to accomplish a great enterprise or objective
■ regency: Just running things until the elder gets back
■ sbirri: Disguised and covertly inserted by a rival lord
 ■ vehme: Enforces the Masquerade
■ watchmen: Protects the city from supernatural intruders

My Picks

COTERIE TYPES
 ■ blood cult: Controls a human cult and feeds from them
 ■ cerberus: Protects or guards an important location
 ■ champions: Fights for a good cause
 ■ commando: Fights for a master
 ■ day watch: Guards the undead sleepers from mortals
 ■ fang gang: Criminal crew, gang, or the like
 ■ hunting party: Captures humans with particular blood Resonances for others
 ■ maréchal: Serves and guards the lord of the city
 ■ nomads: Travels from place to place
 ■ plumaires: Social coterie that flocks together
 ■ questari: Seeks to accomplish a great enterprise or objective
 ■ regency: Just running things until the elder gets back
 ■ sbirri: Disguised and covertly inserted by a rival lord
 ■ vehme: Enforces the Masquerade
 ■ watchmen: Protects the city from supernatural intruders

cerebus, champions, and vehme appear to be a commonality, but we'll wait for the input of the other two players.

Just for the records, there can be more than one Coterie in the city.  Those that want to make a Blood Cult can also have it out there.  Hint hint... lol

very true, being vegan somewhat makes it irellevant for Asha to be apart of XD
This message was last edited by the player at 18:14, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

Cerberus, Champions, Plumaires and Vehme seem to be most common, and I am very happy because they are probably what would fit my character the most.

so wait for Rook to see if any of those 4 are not a fit and then we can hash it out :)

Indeed, very nice!

I'm fine with most of them, though obviously some would be a better fit. I'll go out on a limb and suggest another possibility.

Fixers:. They handle jobs for other Kindred that need doing, but can not be directly connected to those specific Kindred.

i like the idea of fixers but think it will be impossible to do jobs against other kindred without risking anger from the respective sects they belong to but if everyone else is keen hapy to discuss it. Are there any of Cerberus, Champions, Plumaires and Vehme that you feel would not work for Rook?

Plumaires and Champions seem to work the least for Rook.  Cerberus could work well, depending upon what we're guarding.  A sect neutral zone would be a good one.  Vehme is the most practical of the lot, as it affects everyone, and could most readily turned to profit or power.  But I could work with any of them.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:30, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

So looks like we have narrowed it down to Cerberus, Vehme or potentially custom such as fixer or whichever others people wish to propose? I am leaning more towards vehme as it seems more up Asha's alley than guarding something. Could alos be that her place in the coterie is an olive branch of sorts between the sects, an acknowledgement that masquerade breaches are unwanted and discouraged by both the Camarilla and the Anarchs.

Happy to hear other ideas and thoughts however :D

I will have to pass on the Fixer, for I don't like doing jobs for anyone. Sorry.. That is what paying the poor is for.  LOL

First job you should should be paying to get done is getting the ivory rod removed from your posterior ;)

So, if I'm reading things correctly, you guys have decided on being a Vehme? If so, this would give you guys 1 dot in Chasse, 3 dots of influence among the police and/or in the media, and 3 dots of status, with the possible extras being Adversaries or a Mawla.

well my vote is for vehme however i believe Rook has voted for cerberus. the other three have yet to state which of the four they prefer :)

In reply to Asha (msg # 40):

Hey now, keep that energy for ic chat lol!

correct

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 43):

Bit of banter is always good in ooc and out, asha wouldn't be so polite ic

I voted for Vehme as being the most practical option.  It works well for everyone in some regard.  Cerberus was a secondary choice.

Vehme also works to bridge our Camerilla and Anarch sides, potentially getting us in good, or at least needed, with both.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:17, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

In reply to Rook (msg # 46):

apologies, i misread it then :), looks like vehme is indeed the type if Nef is also voting for it?

Yeah never hurts to leave one bridge unburned haha
This message was last edited by the player at 23:25, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

I also agree. Throckett would be honored to perform those duties.

In reply to Asha (msg # 47):

No problem.  I don't always communicate my intent clearly enough.

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 48):

*L*  You do realize that those duties will involve alot of unpleasant actions, likely to include ashing some licks, and killing some kind right?

Oops.  Sorry.  That was my inner Sabbat.  ;)

In reply to Rook (msg # 50):

Gonna have to keep an eye on you rook if you keep slipping into sabbat terminology IC  ;)

I'm certain that we can come to a compromise where violence isn't needed. But I would never deny the kindred the ability to defend themselves should lick come to bite.

In reply to Asha (msg # 51):

*LOL*. Ain't wrong if it's right.

No ivory tower there.  Well, unless you talk to the correct Tzimice.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:42, Thu 11 Nov 2021.

Alrighty, what should our chronicle tenets be?

I'm going to propose a few potential options.

• Know Yourself.
• Be your own, never submit.
• Reflections dichotomy.

Well if we are tossing out options, how about these?

• Control the beast.
• Never kill the innocent.
• Duty before personal gain.

I would put forth:

No needless cruelty - do not maim or harm kine or kindred for pleasure

Duty above ambition - no sect is above the masquerade, punish all breakers equally regardless of sect allegiamces

Control the beast - we should set an example for the other kindred. If we cannot control ourselves how can we expect others1 to do the same.

My options.

• Respect Oneself.
• Control your Lust. ( Lust can take any form such as the lust for Sexuality, Money, or Power
• A secret is just that, a Secret.  So keep them.

Okay, so the theme of self-control appears to be prevalent, as well as business before pleasure.

I can agree with that ST.

• Self Control.
• Business before Pleasure.

Both seem to be resounding in our ideas.

Think the 3rd should also be reasonbly neutral considering we are all playing very different personalities.

Thought you liked a little Conflict!!!

Let’s not all be so neutral on everything

Asha does however if I said the last tenet should be never bow to any Prince, baron or ruler, the camarilla characters might find this socially impossible to adhere to. Likewise if your tenet was obey the hierarchy of the camarilla, Asha would not be able to abide by it haha

There will be bickering and disagreements aplenty I should imagine once play begins ;)

What about no violence between coterie members? Might keep the arguments verbal and help curb any temptation to strike in anger haha

Not that i would ever want it to get to that point does that mean we dont want the option for two members to "fight it out"? If you guys are fine with that i certainly am.

I see your point but feel there might be a danger in letting  kindred fight to resolve disputes as it could be an open door to the beast, especially if the fight is meant to resolve arguments etc

What about "no unnecessary cruelty"? I think it was brought up before

Yeah no unnecessary cruelty is a good one, No problems from Asha there.

We will also need to determine when this Coterie was created?

Well the Reverend only arrived very recently. So I can be a new addition or it would have to be fairly recent in vamp time

Asha has been here for a few decades I should think though considering sect war in 90's 00's may also be fairly new addition

Okay, so it looks like our tenets are essentially Control Yourself, Business Before Pleasure, and No Unnecessary Cruelty. We can have the coterie itself be fairly new since there are new arrivals in the equation. The questions remains though: Do you form under your own volition, or because a higher power made you?

Based on the mixed sects/allegiances I think the latter would make most sense.

Tenets
• Control Yourself.
• Business before pleasure.
• No unnecessary cruelty.

  Sounds good.

   As for how the Coterie was formed, perhaps it was a bit of both.  There are multiple Sects and an Independent involved, so there is not single authority that could order it.  And Rook could either put down the one giving the order, or leave if he felt putting them down was unviable.  It might be that both the Anarchs and the Camerilla had an issue with Masquerade breaches in the area that they've assigned the Coterie too, and so the Prince, and Anarch leader each appointed someone to co-lead and form the Coterie.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:49, Fri 12 Nov 2021.

yeah the latter but as Rook put it both factions agreed it was to be created but individual sects chose who joined. Asha would perhaps make sense considering she used to be camarilla and has status amongst the anarchs. Rook might have been asked if he would join as a bridge of sorts since he works with both factions but doesn't tend to draw line for either side. Camarilla perhaps insisted they have more members as princes tend to like having the upperhand, installing Richard who likewise has status and infleunce in the camarilla. can see that working. (not trying to leave Nef and Throcket out just know less about your characters :D)
This message was last edited by the player at 19:03, Fri 12 Nov 2021.

I can move some points around to make this more the case (with ST permission of course), but perhaps Throckett was placed there (willingly but whos asking) as a way to prove his capability, test his loyalty, and because of his strong ties to humanity. He is pretending to still be alive after all and is rather involved in the religious community.

The advantage would be influence right?

I would say so yes if he has a human flock. No reason it couldn't have been announced and you did actually volunteer. Your a malk people expect crazy ideas from you ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 19:21, Fri 12 Nov 2021.

Sure! A camarilla volunteer who claims to represent the interests of the humans sounds very up my alley

Sounds good for my vote.

Camerilla has come

Should our coterie have a name since it has official duties and purpose as ordained by both Anarchs and Camarilla? ind of a don't break the masquerade or <insert name> will be after you?

Should we say that the coterie is very freshly formed? So we can get to know eachothers characters in game? I personally think that would be very fun

Yes would make sense if its brand new though we very possibly have previous connections or interactions/ opinions of each othewr :D

I'm certain there are overlapping circles.  For example, Rook and Reverend Throcket may never have interacted as they travel two entirely different circles.  But Asha, Nefertari, Richard Navarro, and Rook may be at least aware of, if not have met, each other, as they travel in similar circles, if in different shades of those circles.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:34, Sun 14 Nov 2021.

Using coterie point to purchase haven o

Vehme says it has

Chasse:1
Influence:3
Status: 3

Asha's added
Haven:1

Throcket added
Lien:1

Richard added
Chasse:1, increasing Chasse to a 2.

Current Coterie domain:
   Chasse: 2
   Haven:1
   Influence: 3
   Lien:1
   Status: 3
This message was last edited by the player at 22:26, Sun 14 Nov 2021.

Chasse: 1
Influence: 3
Status: 3

Asha's added
Haven:1

Throckett adds
Lien: 1

I'll use my free dot to add Chasse 1

Current Coterie domain:
   Chasse: 2
   Haven:1
   - Cell: 1
   Influence: 3
   Lien:1
   Status: 3

Added my own advantage dot remaining to add a cell to the haven.

Smart move considering our job, however we would need someone to place another dot in Haven as cells don't seem to be available to one dot havens.

I'll add mine to Have to give us a nicer place.

Given the multi-sect importance and creation of our Coterie, I'll put my dot in Chasse.

Updated Domain scores:
   Chasse: 3
   Haven:2
   - Cell: 1
   Influence: 3
   Lien:1
   Status: 3

I presume that status will be a general one for kindred and not faction specific?

Also couldn't find where it said cells were limited to haven oo? couldn't find any such restrictio on pg 188 or 189? Technically haven will count as ooo as merits appear to add to the haven rating. Also appears that you can make your haven a shared background amongst the coterie.

Technically if throckett is still willing we can use his haven then simply use the 3 dots me and nef used for cells and two others? i would probs add a postern but warding might be another option. it would just mean that his haven is wihtin the domain.

Could also tie in with why Throckett was added to the coterie despite being less experienced in the city than most of us. any thought on this?

Well, if we have three dots in Haven merits, Cells, Postern, and something else would be good.  Warding or Security Suite are both excellent options.

In reply to Asha (msg # 92):

Its at the end of the paragraph for cell: "This merit is not available in small havens."
Not that I'm trying to rules lawyer anything.

While I am fine with using my haven, I would like to point out that churches tend to be public buildings. We should probably invest in some security, considering that we're putting all our eggs in one basket.

Ah spotted :D well i will use 1 o for postern so we have a hidden back entrance (sewers might make sense) so we do not risk dragging a vampire in whilst memeber  of the public are around praying and 1 o for cells.

Are we all in agreement to have his Haven as our base?

The Church can be very noise in places they don’t belong.

Yeah I don't think a church is a good idea for a Haven, it could totally be in the domain and be the Reverends personal haven but definitely not the coteries which will probably be used for business and missions.

Because it's not unanimous, I'll switch from Lien to Haven as it'll give you guys a place to sleep. While the Lord's house is welcome to all, I won't force anyone to stay.

Updated Domain scores with contributions:
   Chasse: 3 ~ Rook and Richard
   Haven:2 ~ Throcket and Nefertari
   - Cell: 1 ~ Asha
   - Postern 1 ~Asha
   Influence: 3 (Police?)
   Status: 3 (Vampires in Shadowhold)
This message was last edited by the player at 15:10, Tue 16 Nov 2021.

Is everyone in agreement with the latest coterie above?

In reply to Asha (msg # 99):

I believe that status and influence both need to have a group specified so I edited the list to include them. I defaulted to police for mortals our coterie would influence, but we are free to change that to something else.

Also did we want to take on any flaws? Adversaries seems fitting considering that what we're doing isn't exactly going to win us any friends.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:20, Tue 16 Nov 2021.

I beleive the book states influence over media and police. Status tends to apply to kindred sects or groups I beleive? Happy to be wrong though haha

Reverend, what denomination is your Church ?

Catholic Church, the Orthodox, Episcopal, or the Lutheran.  Then there is also,

Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians.

I hadnt thought too much about it. I was going to play him as a more new-agey preacher with a catholic inspired slant. Evening mass as a nod to midnight mass, a focus on community work and building over distant charity and going a little off script with biblical interpretation. So whatever that is lol.

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 103):

Well just don't talk about caine too much and you should be fine haha

In reply to Reverend Throckett (msg # 103):

Is the bible fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps?

the word a of great shepherd leads me to beleive this to be the case ;)

In reply to Rook (msg # 105):

Remarkably clear, surprisingly. You'll find many a passage mentioning how killing people  or harming people out of wrath or vengeance is bad. Harming non-innocent people is decidedly absent, especially when you do so in the name of Justice, even more so if they are liars, traitors, or dissidents; Proverbs 6:16-19.

Ironically

Asking cause I hope other Religions don’t cause your hairs on the back of your neck to rise.

My Shop may cause a stir in your Congregation

Ahh I see! No worries! The Reverend preaches tolerance of all faiths. While being saved is of course something we should strive for, a priest can only serve as a guide and ultimately each person's journey is their own.

I'm sure that the Reverend's own feedings would cause them to stir anyway. Glass houses and the like.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:48, Tue 16 Nov 2021.

In reply to Nefertari Panthea (msg # 109):

Imagine what his congregation would feel if they knew half the stuff that really goes on in night XD

Are we all squared away when it comes to our coterie?

I beleive so?

Alright, I take it we're ready for the coterie to be formed?

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 114):

YES

I'm ready.

yes

Yeap.

Alright, in that case, I think I have something planned.