To decide upon the party roles, and character needs.

Hello. I'm leaning toward a bard, cleric, or artificer for this one, but I can go further afield if others have their hearts set on those (or other Leader-role types).

I am playing a wizard with and former prisoner of Gorizbadd.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:58, Thu 06 Jan 2022.

Welcome, all. We have three players who've expressed an interest in playing 4e. I've had two suggesting games and resources.

I've posted my current resources. A small collection, but nothing fanciful or vast. The current leaning is to stay in the 'Shining Lights' world. Fair enough. No lore I'm familiar with, so there is that. I believe Candidate-3 is hoping for the Slaying Stones AP since their first post is tying into that AP.

Feel free to post your ideas, and suggestions here so all can chime in and offer feedback. If we get really in-depth, then I'll set up the wiki to be the repository of knowledge.

I don't want any over-powered, game-breaking craziness, but I also want to allow for the best experience to engage the wider audience. So, that said, if you can get me pointed to resources that matter (Or public opinion here says it's cool) then you can use whatever expanded resource options you want. However, this means YOU (The players) are dictating the character creation rules you want to see used and agree is fair for all.

I'm gonna come out the gate hot here with a proposal: We ban Twin Strike. It's such a dominant At Will power that the whole game warps around it. Any other class or race capable of picking up an At Will almost always takes it. It's so dominant Rangers basically forget they have any other At Wills. To deal similar damage to a mildly optimized Ranger just spamming Twin Strike, other classes have to often use encounter powers to make up similar DPR numbers.


Incidentally, I've never gotten to actually play a Striker before since they seem to be overwhelming the most popular 4e role, so I'd like to give it a try.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:14, Thu 06 Jan 2022.

We've had different experiences; Twin Strike is nice, but there are equivalent at-wills for several other classes - the barbarian and fighter both have them, at the very least - and they certainly never became go-tos for everyone else?

Well, part of is it my experience in the CharOp community, I think. The ability to apply static bonuses and damage riders twice as an At Will is just a really strong ability in a way no other class At Will measures up to, numbers wise.

Speaking of numbers...

I do remember the necessity of various 'math fix' feats that RPOL games at the time often just gave everyone for free (rather than requiring everyone to sink actual feats just to correct developer mistakes). Are we doing something like that?

I assume you mean Improved Defenses and the Weapon Expertise feats? Certainly wouldn't mind just getting a flat +1 feat bonus to Attacks and NADs.

That said, I think Essentials' introduction of the (Weapon Type) Expertise feats mostly adds good riders to the baseline stuff to make them worth the feat slot rather than being a straight feat tax. Improved Defenses not so much.

Those were the ones.


Candidate #4, do you have a character preference?

I am very flexible when it comes to what I play. I played a fighter back when I played before, but want to make sure we have our role bases covered. Im leaning towards Rogue or the Seeker class.

That would mean two strikers, one leader, and one controller - but that's still quite doable. (You don't have to have every role-primary covered for a party to function.) Of course, if we get a 5th or 6th then who knows?

Although never ideal, I'm not opposed to a player controlling two characters. My experience is a mixed bag. One PC gets more spotlight and the other usually just do things when needed. But it's an option.

There are pdfs that you could google using the titles Heroes of the Fallen Lands and Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms through google docs. These are the titles of the player's handbooks regarding 4e essentials.

I don't mind playing a Defender if Candidate-4 wants to play a striker. Probably a Swordmage, then.

If you go Rogue, I could go Swordmage w/ Aegis of Ensnarement and provide Combat Advantage for you to capitalize on.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:42, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

I'm now debating between Artificer and Runepriest.

The Artificer can cover Thievery needs (less necessary with a rogue), and their item creation is crippled if the Essentials rarity system is in place (Wizards itself later admitted that rarity was hot garbage), but they can throw huge amounts of temporary hit points around and have decent buffing and control.

The only other wrinkle is that it would make three of the PCs Int-based Arcane types! Still, that could be part of why they ended up in a group together.


The Runepriest really leans on tactical positioning (okay if we'll have a grid battlemap, problematic otherwise) but can throw out huge bonus numbers and is a front-liner (better for the rogue). Their actual healing ability is only so-so, but they throw out even more buffs when they use it.



Any thoughts/preferences? I could still go back to other options if neither of those looks good.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:01, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

I use maptools for maps if/when actual combat is needed and post the screenshot of them in a thread. I might have to create them though. Unless I can find them. The ones in the modules have legends that look messy and could confuse others.

I'll tokenize your characters once you present photos. I usually create a thread for portrait media for PCs and NPCs alike.

Artificer would be fine if you want to go that route. A group of mostly Arcanists might be fun.

Runepriests tends to feel bad to play in a smaller party. They tend to struggle to fill the leader role because they have such a diversity of options. There's also a lack of feat support for them. That said, If you've already played one before and enjoyed it, I'd be fine with it.

If you want a class that does repositioning well and can fight in melee if built right, maybe Cunning Bard or Skald would be good? It would also solve our obvious lack of Charisma.

I can fill in whatever role we are weakest on.

Are all the books available? I think I still have everything up until essentials.
I don't know what rules people are playing, but when I GMed I had some basic rules.

Hrm, I guess from the character creation instructions we're not using Themes. Too bad, they're pretty nifty.

Guys, creation rules are whatever you all agree to use. I just started that thread to get the conversation going.

Note: When I GMED, I banned Twin Strike and gave everyone the "Focus" feat, since it's largely a math adjustment to fix scaling issues.

I'd be cool with this.

Hello Everyone,

I hope to have found a home for a twice orphaned Shifter Cleric of Nusemnee who favors the Longbow. He's essentially a cleric pregen I doctored a bit. I'm fairly new to 4e, I understand the concepts and mechanics, just haven't gotten to play more than about 10 posts before games fizzle. I'm very well versed in all other versions of D&D however, so I should catch on quick enough. I'm open to whatever adventure is out there, and whatever rule tweaks people like. My character's already made at 1st level, so if I need to add or change anything to get in line with whatever rules changes there are, it should be easy enough. I'm not here to powergame, just to have fun and get another edition under my belt.

If the double application of flat modifiers is what causes the issue with Twin Strike then wouldn't it be simpler to just not allow them to apply to the second hit?

Not that it matters much if we don't have a ranger or half-elf who wants to take it.



Cleric of Nusemnee - which deity is that? Longbow-wielding clerics aren't very common, so you'll have no trouble standing out!



I'd kind of assumed that themes and backgrounds were in, but if we'd rather do without them, that's fine too.



#6: So far we seem to have a wizard and cleric (confirmed), a rogue and swordmage (probably), and I've been looking at several Leader-type options, so anything goes. (I'll grant that three Leaders would be role-heavy, but as long as they all focus on different aspects/secondaries, it'll still work.)
This message was last edited by the player at 05:27, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

Nusemnee
The Dread Maiden, the Horned Daughter, A Good God of Heroism and Redemption, modern scholars say She's dead. There are those who still hold true to Her tenets and hold their faith. If there be but a single believer, can a Deity be truly dead?

Um DM may I apply the penalties due to my character young age(11 year old human child) after I use Point Buy method? Will Jessica begin the module at Leona's Tower? Now that I think of it I might decide to go with PHB I wizard because it has more options and less restrictive. Although if I remember correctly there were a few rules modifications and revisions posted on the WOTC site regarding changes to the powers such as magic missile automatically hitting and doing 2 plus intelligence damage and a few other powers having half damage if miss. May we use those?

What's this mean? Is this a boost?

The errata for wizard powers applied generally (and the HoFL versions include them), so yeah, Magic Missile was turned into an autodamage power no matter which version of the wizard you use.

Bear in mind that, since it doesn't involve an attack roll, it can't trigger most bonus effects since you never actually "hit" with it.

Been busy tossing together NPCs from the module to get a sense of who they are.

Candidate-3: 11 Age Female - Modifiers are applied AFTER you purchase the attributes. That's how I've always understood the rules to work. Base, then race/size modifiers, then items...


Candidate-5: Themes and Backgrounds. I added the backgrounds from the module.

If you take that background, you get that associated skill (or choose one of the skills if there are options)

An associated skill means that you either get a +2 bonus to all checks with that skill, OR you can add it to your class skill list before choosing trained skills.

Alternately, instead of gaining an associated skill, you can choose to learn an additional language related to the background.

I hereby declare C-2 our in-house rules-knowledge guru!

Somebody has been studying!

I really just went and looked up backgrounds in the PHB2.

I do remember there being some from The Scales of Warthat worked in other ways, but I'm not sure whether I still have those PDFs.

I haven't played any of the new Heroes of the Blankity Blank stuff before and I ahve a quick question.


"OTHER SOURCES

Othe r DUNGEON S & DRAGON S supplements, including DUNGEON S & DRAGON S
Insider, offer additional powers that you can choose from. Wheneve r you choose
a new class power, you can select it from the list presented in this book or
you can take a power of the same class, level, and type (attack or utility) from
anothe r source.
For example, when your slayer reaches 2nd level, you could select a 2nd-level
fighter utility power from a source other than this book or you could choose one
of the 2nd-level fighter utility powers in the "Knight" section of this book."

So, does this mean I don't have to take the recommended At Will powers at level 1, I can grab say, the Hexblade power as a Warlock? Or a Paladin power instead of the default Blackguard at will?

It's a bit messy, thanks to the way that Essentials-based stuff handled powers and features, but if the character actually gets to make a choice based on type/level then they can choose from any qualifying power, not just the ones listed in the book. A power has to have a matching (or lower) type and level (and if it doesn't have a level listed, it's unchoosable).


A Hexblade doesn't get to choose encounter powers or at-wills, so they're stuck there. Likewise, their encounter and at-will stuff is mostly linked to their blade feature, so it wouldn't do a PHB warlock any good, but the utility and daily options are interchangeable. (I suppose that a human warlock could take Eldritch Bolt as their extra at-will, though it would be pretty redundant with Eldritch Blast).


Similarly, the Blackguard is mostly given specific things by their class features rather than being able to make a choice. Daily-5/9 and Utility 6/10 options could be chosen from the full paladin list, though.

I don't actually see any reason why the PHB paladin couldn't take the Blackguard's at-wills since they're listed as "Paladin Attack 1" powers, and Vice's Reward could be taken as a Utility/2 for the same reason. However, Dread Smite and Shroud of Shadow don't have a level designation, which renders them unselectable as encounter and utility powers, respectively.


The Slayer (and Knight) are largely out of luck. The only things they can choose from other sources are their utility powers, and their own at-wills and encounters are ineligible for selection by the PHB fighter since they lack level designations.




Now, if you're playing a PHB character, you do NOT have to choose the "suggested" options. A PHB warlock does have their at-will powers locked-in by their pact, but they aren't required to choose Witchfire/Vampiric Embrace as their encounter power just because the build suggestion says so.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:59, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

Candidate-3 with the Wizard: Can I convince you to take the Ray of Frost or Stone Blood at-will power? (Stone Blood is in the Red Box) That would mean I could go World Serpent's Grasp to lock down and grant combat advantage for other melee characters.

Currently:


Looks like we want another striker for sure. If the Rogue is going to be melee then another melee striker would make sense. If everyone wants to be more focused on ranged, I could avoid knocking things prone, though.

Ok. I'd like to see what kind of rogue we have then first, but I'll provably play a striker, and a melee striker if it's a melee rogue.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:23, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

#4, what will you be doing? It'll affect both #6 and my own choice.

*Reads slayer*
*realizes they don't actually get at any attack powers*
Wait... what?
*rereads*
Huh. Ok.

Ok, I think I have to try this with a pure dexterity slayer spear master.
This should be weird.


<i>Edit: Oh no... humans can pick up dual strike.. which is completely broken with slayer since it gets all the damage bonuses on each attack. I'm thinking that's beyond the pale broken
</i>
This message was last edited by the player at 18:52, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

Hey all. I'll push up to 8 characters max... We just had a 7th apply (And join). I'm going to turn off the flag for accepting new applicants.

Hi everyone.  C7 here.  I tend towards simple characters, betting the opportunity for solid RP with an easy concept is approachable for everyone.  I am very team-focused, and like that everyone has a chance to shine.

Character-wise, I'm thinking dwarf with axe - one of the classics.  I am thinking a stock fighter, but I could, if critical need for a striker, go for a more 'wild' dwarf, and go barbarian dwarf with axe.

I think Fighter is very capable of doing a sort of Defender / Striker hybrid thing, especially if we're going to have a meleeish team for prone / Headman's Chop to be a thing.

We are going to be very hitty.

Jesus though, that twin strike slayer. Yikes!
This message was last updated by the player at 20:53, Fri 07 Jan 2022.

I was going to go for melee with my rogue. But I could go for ranged. I tend to build melee characters because if you get bottlenecked in a dungeon range can become obsolete. That being said I will still have a range weapon just in case.

hitty is just combat though.  a nice mix of pc's and good rp is always.

If you're going for the dagger, you can throw it or melee with it pretty easily as long as you have a power for each. (You can do it as a basic attack too, but no sense in not using a power) I just wanted to make sure you weren't taking the sharpshooter one.

Yeah I dont plan on going the sharpshooter route. I think I've got the overall idea on what powers I m going to choose.

My character sheet and description is finished for your approval DM. The character sheet link is in the description. I created a new one based on the PHB rules.

Ehyrk, Jessica, and Zuranduil characters are pretty much approved.

Temp1, 2, 4, and 6 are still awaiting player input or decisions. :)

Okay, GM, I think I'm ready for review

It's going to be the Runepriest. We're not crowding the front line enough yet, so clearly I have to fix that!

I've spent most of the day trying to read through all of the old material about these classes, since it's been a few years. Working on the sheet right now.


One thing that you might want to account for ahead of time: when he's using a shield (which he usually will be, at least when rough stuff is happening), every ally gets a +1 Shield bonus to AC. It won't stack for those who already use shields (or have feats that give a shield bonus), but for those who don't...
This message was last edited by the player at 01:18, Sat 08 Jan 2022.

I have a feeling I'm going to be glad I can pull off reach.

I also have a feeling I'm going to wish I'd played an Eladrin to teleport through the giant meatwall we've got on the front line.

Anyone want to set up some prior relationships with my character? I have three potential points of contact:

1) Grew up in or near the Feywild together. Maybe as craftspeople or traders if outside the feywild. Potentially shorter lived races might just have known him since they were a kid.

2) Studied at the same Mage Academy / Tower / Whatever.

3) Served in "the war" together. Maybe as part of allied forces.



Hey! I don't have any shield bonuses so I can actually use the Runepriest's bonus. Neat.

@DM - I need my character sheet opened please...

All the characters are unlocked. If you want the candidates unlocked, I suppose I can do that for additional notes. But let's get the characters created.

I need a favor from someone to explain why Jessica is travelling with everyone else. Jessica is currently living with Lady Treona after the recent death of her father. Here is Jessica's background for further explanation.

++++++++++

Johan Darkwood and Marie Swordheart were both adventuring wizards and explorers by trade who had fallen in love but could not sum up the courage to tie the knot. But then Marie became pregnant. So they settled down in Winterhaven and 9 months later Marie gave birth to a baby girl whom they named Jessica or Jess for short. However Marie developed a dangerous infection and died.

Despite this terrible loss, Johan poured all of his love and affection to his daughter. She became his life and he became hers. To his surprise, Jess proved to be an exceptionally bright child learning to read fluently by age 3 and even write to a limited degree at age 4. She loved books and tomes, and was an avid student and researcher at an early age.

While this pleased Johan, it also worried him too. She spent too much time in the library studying. At ages 4 to 6 she was being quite the student. Which was fine by him. But Jess proved also to be a sickly child. Flus and boughts of shivering and malaise were a problem with Jess. She had no problem studying and learning quickly because she was in bed most of her young life.

So when Jess asked her father to teach her magic, while this pleased him immensely, he did so with a plan. First he packed up all his stuff and his daughter's and sold the shop. Then he took his daughter and once more began to live the life of an adventurer. Jess was 5 at the time.

There were several reasons for this. When Johan was young he also suffered the kind of childhood Jess suffered through. Until his ranger father took him out into the forest and began gradually training him in outdoor survival. It helped toughen him up physically and for years he actually became a ranger until he developed an interest in magic.

So he did so with Jess, teaching her how to survive in the outdoors,and how to hunt and forage for food. He did this along with days of training her to learn spellcasting and manipulating the energies of the arcane. Jess found that she loved both, finding the peace and serenity of the wilderness and forests a calming influence which helped her study better and develop good concentration skills. She proved to be a quick learner and was mastering Cantrips by age 9.

Eventually Johan gave her her first spellbook at age 10. But what was more important to him was that Jess was getting healthier and stronger physically. The gradual and careful exposure to the outdoors helped her develop a stronger constitution and made her overcome her earlier childhood bouts of sickness.

Then tragedy struck. Jessica and her father were ambushed on the road by goblins one night and Jessica was knocked out during the ensuing melee. When she woke up she found herself in a cell with her dying, mortally wounded father. He died in her arms but before doing so, gave her a key he pickpocketed from one of the goblin guards in the prison who thought he was dead. The goblins did not view her as a threat so they left her and her father alone to rot. As luck would have it Jessica's stuff was left in the room where her cell was but there was no goblin guard. Because she had not been able to cast a spell to protect herself from attack before she was knocked out, the goblins were complacent and assumed that she would not be able to escape. Once freed she quietly collected her belongings escaped unnoticed.

Once free from the cell and prison Jessica realized that she was in Gorizbadd or formerly Kiris Dahn. She had heard stories of the legendary city. But that was not her concern. Escaping the city was. It was a harrowing and terrifying experience for her. While she used her Chameleon's Mask on herself to remain hidden, she was still at risk of being detected. The goblins though did not really consider her a threat so they really did not try hard to search for her figuring that she was not smart enough or strong enough to hide from them and make her escape. But Jessica's father had taught her well. Her small size enabled her to fit through the grates leading to the sewers under the city where she put her father's training in dungeoneering to good use. The girl had somehow managed to move through the muck and filth and make her way to the northern outskirts of the city where at night she climbed out of the sewers through another grate, then left through the northeastern area of the city. It was sheer luck that no goblin patrols happened to be passing by at the time and she was able to escape unnoticed. Eventually, after a tiring few days journey she found herself collapsing on the steps of Lady Treona's Tower, hungry and exhausted. Nursed back to health, Jessica told Lady Treona and Kiris Alkirk of her ordeal. They actually believed her since several scouts they hired to scout out Kiris Dahn for an important mission had once mentioned that somehow a little girl matching Jessica's description had escaped and the goblins were searching for her and the loot they had assumed she stole.

Jessica was taken in by Lady Treona and as Jessica was recovering, Treona, a ritualist was doing research. Being a mage herself, Jessica surprised Treona by offering to help her with her research. It soon became apparant that Jessica was not only adept at it, Treona realized that Jessica was a mage herself. Impressed by the child's knowledge and keen mind, Treona decided to take her in, if she had not already done so, as an apprentice. But there was another motive for encouraging her to be her apprentice. Jessica was so far the only captured prisoner to make it out of Gorizbadd alive. No small feat. Treona told Jessica about the Slaying Stone and what it was capable of. Kiris Alkirk and Lady Treona were thinking of hiring adventurers to retrieve the stone. Given her past recent experience with the city Lady Treona believes that Jessica should be among them. And this is where her adventures begin!

++++++++++

What I am suggesting is is that maybe one of the characters might be under the employ of Lady Treona and has formed a friendship with the kindhearted, extremely intelligent child wizard and protege of Lady Treona, Jessica Darkwood. Suppose that Treona, while appreciating her help, is starting to worry that Jessica is spending too much time at the library and doing research and needs to get out of her shell and live life again. So she decided to send Jessica with an escort(your character) to Winterhaven for a very important errand. She has commissioned Valthrun the Prescient to construct and deliver a very important spell component and sends Jessica to retrieve and pay for it. She has done so and is now heading back to Lady Treona's Tower to deliver the component. This helps get Jessica back in a more lighthearted, less withdrawn state since she was able to enjoy her time in Winterhaven, her hometown before she and her father went adventuring, getting reacquainted with old family friends and even playing with the village children like all normal 11 year olds. Now that the spell component was completed and now stowed firmly in Jessica's backpack, she and your character are heading back to Lady Treona's Tower. We could roleplay your character and Jessica's attitudes towards Jessica helping lead the party through Gorizbadd and retrieving the Slaying Stone. What do you think guys?

Hrm. I could see it working with Vetur and Jessica if we want to lean into the Badass and Child Duo trope.

My character (Mokvon the Swift) is streetwise type who grew up in a city (where they eventually worked as a guard and fighter). He's also worked as a messenger when he was younger.

He was a refugee to the city and came over when he was around 12, so it's possible that they have done some merc work for Lady Treona before, or that they'd run into Jess when she was running around the city.

Given that his own childhood was destroyed when the city fell, he might be sympathatic towards Jess.

Actually Jessica was captured years after the city fell, about a month ago, and that is when she escaped the city. :)

No reason why Vetur and Mokvon cannot be working with Treona and probably both could be her escorts on her trip to Winterhaven. Just curious though, what would there feelings, to Jessica's knowledge, about Jessica joining the group to retrieve the Slaying Stone?

.... he'd think it was a terrible, dangerous idea that had a good chance of getting her killed, which is probably a reasonable thought process for someone who doesn't watch anime and know that 11 year olds with strange magical powers are frequently the most powerful.

My character would probably interpret it as a local cultural eccentricity that it's seen as normal to send a child (child-wizard notwithstanding) into a situation like this, even if there is a complicating personal motive involved!

Please correct me if wrong -

You can only use plate armor if you take the feat for plate armor.

Dwarven Weapon Proficiency is axes and hammers, and is automatic for dwarves.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:57, Sat 08 Jan 2022.

Dwarven Weapon Proficiency is for the throwing hammer and warhammer, although it's redundant for a fighter since they're proficient with all martial weapons anyway.

You can use plate armor if you have proficiency*. The fighter doesn't have this by default, but can take the feat to get it. Otherwise, they're proficient with every armor type except for plate.

* Technically, you can use it without being proficient, but the resulting penalties aren't worth it.

I think Vetur's opinion here is more utilitarian. If she's helpful there's really no reason not to bring her along. There are only so many people out there standing against the tides of darkness so adding one more, even if she's a little young, makes more sense than arbitrarily waiting until she's older.

Since it was just touched on in the OOC thread, hasn't been discussed more generally, and may be important to know who is strong in what skills:

Kaleas's "good" skills (6+) are Athletics, Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, and Insight.

Ehryk's not really very skilled overall. Heal +9, Insight +9, Perception +10 (Tracking +14)

Veture: Arcana, Athletics, Endurance, History

Endurance, Streetwise, Athletics, Intimidation

High dex/con low everything else.

This message was deleted by the player at 20:19, Thu 13 Jan 2022.