The sigils look really good! It gives me great ideas about how to sprinkle clues and motifs pertaining to your characters in my descriptions. I've got some interesting options to describe Apple's symbol though. Infinity symbol, criss-crossing lines, a masked bandit peering out at you.

@Davon: I imagine your brother did the sensible thing and ran into town to fetch Josias instead of losing more children in the forest. XD
Also, as I've just decided Olivia's monthly payments for her house, Davon, you also need to pay 30 gp a month to maintain your lifestyle because you don't live with a rich noble family like Phena, :P.

@Apple: So a Poor NPC makes (and needs to pay) about 6gp a month. You could choose to start off with that amount of gold instead. As for dealing with debt and an alcoholic father, I imagine ever month you can 'give' him gold in multiples of 10. Each multiple will give a +1 modifier to a 1d20 roll I make at DC20. Pap will start at Debt level 9.
Critical Success: Pap loses 1 level of Debt
Success: Pap pays enough to keep ahead of interest.
Failure: Pap squanders the money on drinking, gaining a level of debt.
Critical Failure: Big Monty's thugs pay Pap a visit because he didn't pay any money this month.

It's...very realistic, but I'll lower the difficulty as the story progresses and you engage in this storyline.

Okay, might be my D&D brain freaking out again, but 30gp/month sounds like a lot. I think there's ways you can use lore to generate money so I think I'm going to go read up on that!

Also saw overlapping ying/Yang in Apples symbol there. It has layers :)

Respectfully, concur with Devon


If i can craft and sell 60gp of stuff, i'll make 'rent', 80gp and i'm doing home improvements...  presuming a 'five day' workweek, that'll come out to around 12~16 gp of crafted goods in a day... (that's two sets of chainmail or breastplates a day)

This does seem sorta steep...

ie... Breastplate in PF 1 was 200gp, while PF 2 it's 8gp  (1/25 th the cost)

The original pathfinder had life style tax for 'average' at around 10gp a month.  If the ratios are staying the same, you would expect it to be around 4sp.  So... 30gp is valued around 300sp, so this is 75 times what we might expect.  This feels like a high noble... even princely lifestyle tax...

With this cost... i'm going to have to wonder why she's left home, when she could be living rent free with mum and dad out of their basement..

>.<

[The lifestyle tax is suppose to presume housing and meals]
This message was last edited by the player at 18:35, Fri 28 Jan 2022.

Well I suppose that's what I get for quickly googling something. I double checked my sources and you're right, the numbers I found was from DnD 5e with a vastly different economy. That was my bad. I apologize.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBe...er_life_and_economy/

I didn't really think about this because I was already planning to give everyone that had to pay this living tax 20 days of earned income that would wave it and then some most of the time. You're all basically adventuring in your spare time without quitting your day jobs. And I figured with the extra treasure I'd give out from adventuring a couple of days, the amount of gold in a month would more be made back easily and be more for flavor than mechanical value.

But all the numbers were off including what I thought you all would earn in a month (I read the book's chart wrong too and would've been handing you guys way too much money for your level), so let me adjust it based on the actual PF2e table I found.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=253

So Apple is at Subsistence level (2gp/month), Davon and Olivia is Comfortable (4gp/month), and Phena is Fine (Someone else is paying for it).
That makes house renovations only 1 extra gp a month for Olivia.
That also means Apple's debt roll only needs 1 gp for a +1 bonus. Significantly easier. The first roll for Apple will also include a bonus that includes any surplus of the 15 gp that she chooses to forgo at character creation.

These payments will also mean you never have to mark off drinks, entertainment, trinkets, church donations, etc on your sheets during play. They can all be roleplayed and you'll still pay the same amount at the end of the month.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:27, Fri 28 Jan 2022.

After Devon's comment i sat down and looked at the numbers a little harder, and it felt like Pre World War II German Hyper inflation economy.  *giggles*

Feels a little steep to me, but if i factor the cost of her house and the contents within it, i can very much live with it.  It would be about 40gp in pathfinder, which is lowish noble, which i can aspire to bring down to 30gp after her green house is done.  I can work with these numbers.

As a 'quick' conversion, i'm presuming the campaign is on a 'Silver' standard, which means we have about 150 silvers to start out with, which 'sounds' the same as what a character might start out with in gold.

With things like this, anything crafted in gold must be of astounding value.  Not a terrible thing, i never really liked how gold seemed to grow on trees in most campaigns and much prefer the silver standard as realistic.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 20:20, Fri 28 Jan 2022.

With the adjusted economy values though, maybe all of the items in your house are worth that much in total, but I can't justify that much through living expenses. You're only paying off the loan after all. Otherwise the game is gonna go Gold standard very quickly, even without the hyperinflation from leveling up, so the monthly rate can just be 4-5gp.


In other news, are we locked in on Languages that we want to know?

I have these marked down on character sheets:

@Apple: Elven, Goblin
@Davon: Elven, Gnomish

I'd like to confirm these as final selections:
@Olivia: Elven, Celestial?, Dwarven?, One More?
@Phena: Gnomish?, Dwarven?

After I add you in, you can see and use the corresponding private language groups.

Does Draco exist as a choice?  It's suppose to be a language specialized in arcane lore in the old game, dont know about now... if not Draco, i'll leave the choice open because who knows if i'll meet someone down the line that might have an interesting language to learn?

Draconic is in the table for common languages (pg 65), so should be a viable option for INT+ selection at level 1. Assuming it fits GM's world building that is.

It does indeed. It's a fine choice. I'll add your language groups.
This message was last updated by the GM at 15:56, Sat 29 Jan 2022.

What season will it be at the start of the campaign?

The campaign will start at the end of the winter season, going into spring.


Is everyone basically done with their character sheets? I'll give everyone's sheets a final check and we can start next week.

Yeah, I think I’m good. New expenses seems more achievable!

i believe i have a working character sheet.

i was looking to add more equipment but having coins isn't bad too.

I have about 70 sp to my name, but I *do* have a healing kit, so... yeah. Happy to edit things if the sheet doesn't look right.

Edit, I've also added Davon's family to his public profile, with names of Pa and Ma for reference.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:58, Mon 31 Jan 2022.

Alright, I’ll do some double checking on Wednesday, just a bit busy on the lunar new year tomorrow. I’ll PM you guys individually if we need to make adjustments. If we’re all set by then, hopefully we’ll get started Thursday.

* Give you a shrimp chip, a piece of candy, and a red envelope with a chocolate gold coin in it *

Happy Lunar New Year.

Wishing you health and fortune :)

Thank you, thank you, Happy New Year to you all as well.
May you be healthy and happy in the Year of the Water Tiger!

So, good news, then bad news.

Good news, I've looked over everyone's character sheets one more time, and I think they're all good to go. We should be able to start tonight if everyone's on board.


Bad news, everyone is currently Davon, Olivia, and Apple only.
Phena hasn't posted anything in a week now. I PM'd her on Monday, and I'll give her one more week before I make a decision on the matter. I think she's still checking in every now and then, so I hope she comes back.

I don't want to delay the game though, so I'm going to start the first scene and just move at a slower pace at the beginning, and we'll have Phena jump in later if she joins us.

Groovy way to start the new year.

Yes; I've added them to her character sheet.

Her main deity is Desna, though she's been heard to offer quick prayers to others as appropriate.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:00, Sun 06 Feb 2022.

welcome back Phena.

Glad to see you back Phena! Got your languages all set.


Any thoughts on a symbol for your character? I came up with this tie in for you all, give everyone a little special creative customization.

Does it have to be on the hand?

Can it be say on her upper left shoulder somewhere?  Back Left shoulder, front left shoulder, or even the upper arm is good.  Hand feels a little intrusive.

I guess it doesn't have to be on the hand. Anywhere on the body is fine, but you should be able to see your own symbol. You can mark where you want it on your character sheet or description.

Okay, upper left shoulder front.  She can see it from the front, though she normally will have a blouse or some such, so it might not be readily obvious.