The Tavern (OOC)   Posted by World.Group: 0
Vydirexi
 player, 62 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 06:30
The Tavern (OOC)
Ooh, map!

And yeah, I know this is an unusual experience. I've got a lot of GMing under my own belt, and sometimes you just want to handle certain elements yourself. I'm fine leaving the major changes to you, but I'd be happy to track resources, HP, my hoard, and the busywork of advancement (like incrementing all of the bonuses up when my Proficiency Bonus increases).

I also have a few third-party sources from across the systems: Monster Class: True Dragon from Dreamscarred Press for Pathfinder, and In the Company of Dragons from Rite Publishing for Pathfinder and 5e, which all cover ways to do dragons as a race and 1-20 class.

The ItCoD books aren't ACTUALLY dragons, they're a planar race called the Taninim who reflect dragons (so they can get stronger with XP), and all of them are tailored to trying to balance playing a dragon with playing in a party, so the end result is weaker. Your way of doing advancement is really similar to how they do it though, providing a suite of Draconic Weapons, Defenses, and Gifts that are selected as the character levels up (although yours are more potent and I love the idea of things becoming available because of the things Vydi does).

If you like, I could try to distill them into advancement guidelines for a full-power dragon that may make the experience less stressful for you, give you a more rigid structure to build your way of doing things on top of.

That's really the most important thing: I feel like you're doing me a huge kindness running a game experience like this, very much one my dream games (probably my biggest dream game, in fact), so I would like to do anything and everything I can to take some of the weight off your shoulders and keep it fun for us both.

This message was last edited by the player at 07:10, Tue 25 Jan.

Vydirexi
 player, 63 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 06:31
The Tavern (OOC)
Also, the Advancement thread is still locked. ^_^
World
 GM, 57 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 06:33
The Tavern (OOC)
Oops.  I don't know why I thought you had access to public.  :(
Vydirexi
 player, 64 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 06:36
The Tavern (OOC)
I think I do have access to it, since I could read it, it was just closed. No worries and no frowns! It's just a thread. =)

EDIT: Anywho! If you decide you'd be interested in me fussing around and helping build us a tool box to help ease some of your pressure, just say the word.

This message was last edited by the player at 06:37, Tue 25 Jan.

World
 GM, 59 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 08:32
The Tavern (OOC)
Well, the character sheet should be updated, and unlocked now.

Also, this my last post of the night, so goodnight!
Vydirexi
 player, 66 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 14:32
The Tavern (OOC)
And good morning! I zonked out.

I don't know if you saw the great big OOC post I made before mentioning the locked thread. No big deal, though. ^_^

This message was last edited by the player at 14:35, Tue 25 Jan.

World
 GM, 60 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 21:19
The Tavern (OOC)
Yeah, I did miss it, sorries.  Late night and all that.

I don't have any of those books, so I may have to check them out.

But if you have any specific ideas or inspirations from the books, I am definitely willing to hear them.  Especially when talking about creative ideas for things like special abilities, legendary and lair actions, or draconic gifts.


Also, I'm still at work at the moment, so it'll be about 6 hours until I can post again.

This message was last edited by the GM at 21:19, Tue 25 Jan.

Vydirexi
 player, 68 posts
Tue 25 Jan 2022
at 21:49
The Tavern (OOC)
No hurries and no worries! The game is not meant to be pressure, and weekend posting is not weekday posting. We'll get back into it when it's convenient for ya. =)

I could potentially provide those books to you in a...

>_>

<_<

Way that I shan't go into detail about. Wink wink, nudge nudge, PDFs are bae.

Alternately, I can give you a write-up distilling the valuable parts. In the Company of Dragons for 5e is obviously the best point-of-reference (it's the correct system while the other two books are for Pathfinder and a better-written book than Monster Class: True Dragon on top of that), although it operates on a basis of Small Size and the final product is most definitely not the equal of an Ancient Dragon (it's Gargantuan at level 20, but it has nowhere near the sheer, awesome might, because it's meant to function in a normal adventuring party and have magic items).

There's also not much about Lair Actions and Legendary Actions because, again, adventuring party. But truth be told, I don't think we need to go too crazy adding those. There are a nice variety of both already present in the Monster Manual and Fizban's, and we can extrapolate together on which of those might be appropriate for Vydi as she grows and claims territory.

The text I think we could squeeze out of those books is the so-called Draconic Gifts, AKA the unique abilities of a given breed of dragon and dragons at-large (which the race of that book, the Taninim, echo but are not exact copies of - they don't adhere strictly to the color-coding so that they can be player characters, and that means there's a lot of nice guidelines that may help). The Gift system allows for a level of customization for a Taninim player character to slowly approach the level of a real dragon, although they won't ever quite make it.

However, the most useful and hopefully the most streamlining thing that I could use these books for is to create a more codified progression for us to use so you don't have to come up with everything on the fly. Specific CRs where things which are archetypally dragon are applied to Vydi (the stuff that's in all the blocks of a given age category or a given color) mean things that you don't have to weigh as much when you lay out the advancement options. If there's a CR where her bite or claws are going to get a new die type no matter what, or she's going to unlock Multiattack, that means you don't have to worry about giving me access to something too early or too late, and you can plan for the future with more confidence about what Vydi will look like.

I have the luxury of spanning the entire range of Challenge between two ages, so the stuff that (for instance) an Adult Red has which a Young Red does not can be drip-fed in from CR 11-16, creating more of a power curve that reaches a crescendo at the new age category and also making it less work for you to come up with a list of advancement options. Likewise, it means that most 'levels,' I'll probably only get to pick one advancement while the other is occupied by a guaranteed change from growing more powerful (and then I probably wouldn't pick anything at all when she changes age category because it will pack in a bundle of improvements).

TL;DR: I think I can use these guides to make a rough draft of a full 1-27 class progression. Although a lot of it will be "Special Advance," (meaning the unique or Red-specific properties which Vydi only unlocks access to when she's done something specific with her time or achieved something in-game, as defined by you or plucked from other dragon types if there's a precedent), the fundamental crunch of a True Dragon? I can make a class out of that. I really think I can. Again, 1-27 (or 1-24 and make Great Wyrm a special final leap depending on how she becomes one) instead of 1-20, but definitely doable.

This message was last edited by the player at 21:54, Tue 25 Jan.

Vydirexi
 player, 70 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 04:29
The Tavern (OOC)
Hey hey! Welcome home. Sorry to always leave you these big walls of text in the OOC, by the way. I get a little excited. ^^;
World
 GM, 62 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 04:32
The Tavern (OOC)
I, too, know of such ways to "acquire" pdfs... Lol.


As far as building a set "class" like advancement, I'm not really all that interested.  I have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen when, but I wanted to leave it open ended so you were in as much control of shaping your own dragon as possible.

The class escalator in 5e (where you make very few decisions as you level), is one of systems weaknesses.  It just doesn't emulate organically grown characters very well at all.  It does this for balance reasons, which I think is a very strong point for 5e.

But we don't have to care about balance.  Well, okay that's not entirely true.  But this isn't a standard 1-20 adventure path, and its not like there are other players that all have to be roughly equal power.  And I can easily make adjustments on the fly.


So, yeah, we can use those books as inspiration.  But otherwise, I'd prefer the more open approach, where we can build your dragon as she grows.
Vydirexi
 player, 71 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 04:43
The Tavern (OOC)
Ah, so... I probably shouldn't have started working on the class, huh? XD

I may finish it as a way to ballpark how I want Vydi to progress and for my own future uses, I suppose, but I understand your distaste for making things too... Class-y.

I'm in a slightly different frame of mind about it. Specifically, while I don't particularly like the lack of choice and character variety in 5e, I am the type of person who gets absolutely wracked by choice paralysis. When things I think of as essential character features (like a stronger bite, more natural armor or multiattack, as examples specific to Vydi) become things I choose off of a list, I start panicking that I'm taking the wrong thing at the wrong time, or that I'm going to miss the chance to take something essential because I chose something interesting (and vice versa). Having all of it boiled down into a class progression where the essentials are coming at specific 'levels,' whether I like it or not, takes the choice out of my hands and lets me focus on only picking out the interesting things.

I'll be fine, though. You're super helpful and accommodating, and hopefully the advances available to me at any given CR increase will stay available forever once I've done something or gotten strong enough to unlock them.

This message was last edited by the player at 04:44, Wed 26 Jan.

World
 GM, 64 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 05:01
The Tavern (OOC)
I should make clear:  Anything on the available advancement list will stay there until you take it.

Also, you should have plenty of advancements to get all the "required" things with a ton left over.
Vydirexi
 player, 73 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 05:10
The Tavern (OOC)
Coolness. It was mostly the fear of losing options if I didn't take them that worried me a bit, honestly. And yeah, in the course of puzzling out a class progression, all the standard dragon changes fit in easily with a unique advance at every level. I've stopped that now, but if you ever want me to finish it or share it, please do tell (in particular, I figured out a pretty standardized HD increase curve; it really does almost totally flatten out during Adult, then shoot up more than ever at Ancient).

The stuff from the books honestly won't matter a ton without class elements, either. They're all Diet Dragon traits, designed to get the player close without totally upsetting party balance. Probably not really worth fussing with, not when we have all 15 dragon types and their unique features, the skill list, all kinds of proficiencies, and the entirety of arcane and divine magic which could be clipped onto Vydi like Lego. ^_^
World
 GM, 67 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 07:14
The Tavern (OOC)
Building like lego? My thoughts exactly.


Also, info dump.

This message was last edited by the GM at 07:15, Wed 26 Jan.

Vydirexi
 player, 76 posts
Wed 26 Jan 2022
at 07:56
The Tavern (OOC)
I like info dumps! Didn't expect Eladrin, that's pretty dang cool.
World
 GM, 71 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 05:48
The Tavern (OOC)
Yeah, Eladrin are interesting with some fun mechanics in their personality.  I've never had a chance to use them before, so I thought we could play with them a little here.


Also, I'm off tomorrow, so it is one of the days I could post more frequently. :)
Vydirexi
 player, 79 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 05:57
The Tavern (OOC)
Ooh, yay! I don't have much going on myself, so I'll post as much as I can. ^_^

Since we're in an original setting and talking Fey stuff, I've been meaning to ask: Do you also want to do original planar locations/cosmology if they ever come up, or does original setting mean that we're on an original world in the Material Plane but most of the fundamentals are still the same?

This message was last edited by the player at 06:30, Fri 28 Jan.

World
 GM, 73 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 06:48
The Tavern (OOC)
I've not really delved too much into cosmologies in my games, but we can just use the basics of Forgotten Realms.

In reality, if you just want to imagine this home brew as Forgotten Realms, but on some unknown new continent on Toril, that would be pretty close.

I usually prefer to use premade settings, and mold them to my will.  However, large time skips with premade settings seemed nightmare inducing to me.  How would Fearun change over the course of 10-50-100-1000 years?  Like if you stopped briefly in Waterdeep, I'd have to think about what's changed.  Is Xanathar still there?  If so, how?  If not, who took over the thieves guild?  Then answer 50 more questions in my mind about Waterdeep.  Now do this for each location you got to, and after every big time skip.

It would drive me crazy, especially if it was just a brief visit.  It would be easier just to come up with my own details as you discover them.  Then if you revisit something, I can build my own history for those places without having to worry about keeping any sort of identity in tact.
Vydirexi
 player, 82 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 07:05
The Tavern (OOC)
Well, here's the real sexy business: I don't know jack fucking shit about Faerun and the Realms, real surface level knowledge of names and places and lore, so I won't know even if you do use unmodified locations! I thought the planet was actually named Faerun until you just called it Toril.

The last time I deep-dived the setting I was 13, reading the 3rd/3.5 DMG and Monster Manuals, and I was waaaaay more fascinated with individual monster lore and planar shenanigans; that's the info that stuck. Not long after that, my childhood group switched fully to Pathfinder and I developed a dedicated GM's knowledge about Golarion, instead. The 5e games I've played in recent years have also either been in original settings, Barovia, or didn't last long enough for me to start committing wikiwalks to memory.

Point is, you have carte blanche about the Material setting. I just wanted to know if my preconceptions about the planes and monsters were going to need amended, yeah? And of course I love spinning my own ideas, so if we ever hit a city and you want me to start ad libbing details as I explore it or speculate about how something might change over a couple decades, I'm your girl.
Vydirexi
 player, 85 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 19:01
The Tavern (OOC)
I hope Vydi as an inquisitive little creature works alright. In my mind, a lot of the built-in haughtiness of red dragons was shaken out of her by the trauma of being in danger and fleeing during her first days hatched, so she's probably more humble and self-aware than the average hatchling.
World
 GM, 77 posts
Fri 28 Jan 2022
at 23:46
The Tavern (OOC)
I do love her inquisitive nature.  Also, it's your dragon, so you can develop her as you wish.

We will be doing some time skips with your education, though.  Back and forth conversations in pbp can already flow at glacial speeds.  That's not even taking in consideration a newborn asking, "But why?" or "What's that?" every other sentence.  Lol.
Vydirexi
 player, 86 posts
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 00:14
The Tavern (OOC)
Yeaaaaah. Trying not to go overboard with that, I figure she'll have the intellect and base knowledge of an adult after a year or two.

And yay love! I know she's mine, but it's important she also be believable and that you like the main character in our story. =)
Vydirexi
 player, 90 posts
Mon 31 Jan 2022
at 18:34
The Tavern (OOC)
I hope all is well! =)
Vydirexi
 player, 91 posts
Thu 3 Feb 2022
at 15:18
The Tavern (OOC)
Getting a little worried about ya, Mat. I hope you're alright. ♥

This message was last edited by the player at 18:38, Thu 03 Feb.

Vydirexi
 player, 92 posts
Mon 7 Feb 2022
at 20:01
The Tavern (OOC)
Well, it's been ten days. I really hope everything in your world is okay. If you want to come back to this game or talk or anything, please drop a line any time. It'll stay in my active game lists and I'll keep an eye out for the numbers to turn red. ♥