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09:34, 29th March 2024 (GMT+0)

OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread.

Posted by StorytellerFor group 0
Chiron
Player, 3 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 21:39
  • msg #16

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Mamanu:
I'm happy to spend one point into Sanctum security.

Montgomery County might be a good place for us to have a Sanctum.


Works for me.  There's a community garden project nearby, at Montgomery Gardens.  Chiron would be all over that.
Link
Player, 3 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 21:44
  • msg #17

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

My character has a lot of Occultation, so she'll go wherever you guys go. She is so happy you put in the effort of remembering her that she'll live anywhere you like.

She has one dot of Hallow (which is a VERY useful merit). Could be private or shared. If we share a Hallow, we'll need more than one dot though. Hallows, after all, are the batteries that power mages (unless you really think that ritual self-mutilation is a great alternative).
Chiron
Player, 4 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 22:49
  • msg #18

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

In reply to Link (msg # 17):

So, I know Nimbus reflects with path, but is it individual?  Does each of us have a "signature" nimbus?
Arwen
Player, 2 posts
Obrimos Free Council
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 23:23
  • msg #19

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

So...   I'm trying to put a sheet together, and...  wow, the magic system seems -really- complicated.  :)

Anybody have any useful advice?  General principles, specific awesome things to consider?  So far from the thread I have "Hallow is very useful."  :)
Chiron
Player, 5 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sat 29 Jan 2022
at 23:33
  • msg #20

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

In reply to Arwen (msg # 19):

So, as a total newb, my process was:

1.  Start with the "basic" arcana associated with my path (for me, Life and Spirit).  You have more than enough dots and xp to get to 3.

2.  Look at some cool stuff you might want for spells, i.e., "rotes".

3. If needed, bump arcana to necessary levels.

4. Learn about improvised casting.  Make sure you have Space 2, so you can do it at sympathetic range.

5.  Discover there's cool spells in Space.  Then discover there's cool spells in Prime.  Then discover, there's cool spells in pretty much every Arcana.

6.  Discover a cool sounding Legacy. Re-jig character to fig legacy

7.  Stop stressing about it, and decide it will all get sorted in game.
Storyteller
GM, 11 posts
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 01:16
  • msg #21

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Chiron:
In reply to Link (msg # 17):

So, I know Nimbus reflects with path, but is it individual?  Does each of us have a "signature" nimbus?


Yes, each mage’s Nimbus tends to be unique in some way, just like their resonance is as well. It is basically your “magical” signature.
Link
Player, 4 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 07:25
  • msg #22

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Arwen:
So...   I'm trying to put a sheet together, and...  wow, the magic system seems -really- complicated.  :)

Anybody have any useful advice?  General principles, specific awesome things to consider?  So far from the thread I have "Hallow is very useful."  :)


As an Obrimos mage, your home turf is Forces and Prime

You have two ways of casting spells: rotes and improvised spells.

Most of your spells are improvised. They Use Gnosis + Arcanum, which makes it useful to have a Gnosis of 3 or 4.

There is a 2 dot limit on the Death Arcanum for starting Obrimos (inferior Arcanum).

Rotes: If you as an Obrimos cast a spell that isn't Forces or Prime, you have to pay one mana for doing so. Learning a rote saves you the mana.
You should also learn rotes from Forces and Prime if
1.) You plan on using that spell often AND
2.) It's the kind of spell where it is desirable to have lots of successes AND
3.) You have a dice pool for that rote that is clearly better than Gnosis + Arcanum (because you could simply improvise it otherwise). As a Free Council mage, all your rote dice pools that include Crafts, Persuasion and Science are +1.

Two spells worth considering are a mage armor spell (there's one 2 dot spell for each Arcanum, Prime works differently than the others) and a Mage sight spell (there's a 1 dot mage sight for each Arcanum). Mage armor spells are usually cast as long-term, always-on spells (see later).

Three traps when learning spells:
- Vulgar spells can cause you trouble with fellow mages and can cause Paradox (a magical fumble).
- Some spells cost mana. This isn't a big problem, but your battery isn't infinite (use Hallows and Oblations to recharge)
- some spells are extended (read: slow). Even at Gnosis 4, they take at least an hour to cast (3 hours at Gnosis 1 and 2). Example: Space 3 Portal (=Teleportation) is a cool spell, but it is not usually a combat spell, because the enemy might interrupt your Ritual before you manage to teleport them up that tree.

Space 2 allows long distance casting ("sympathetic casting", p. 114), Fate 2 gives you Conditional casting (p. 150), Time 2 gives you Temporal Sympathy (p. 259, which means casting spells into the past or future), Death allows you to deal with the world of ghosts (dead people), Spirit allows you to see the world of spirits (strange beings modeled on concepts like tree or sloth).

Unless otherwise noted, your standard range for spells (without space) is what you can see, which is usually enough (most of my characters do not have sympathetic magic).

Don't worry about inventing your own spells yet. The given spells cover a lot of ground, and most Storytellers handwave minor effects (like an Acanthus Time mage knowing the time without looking at her watch).

Legacies are powerful, but the kind of things that works best if you have all those extra books. They give you a third arcanum that doesn't require mana for casting and one or two paradox-free spell-like powers. They also add a whole new level of complicatedness.
I've decided against my character being in a legacy in this game. I couldn't be bothered with being a member in yet another group of people (Mastigos and Silver Ladder is enough for me). You don't really need that extra power to be powerful enough anyway and, of course, Hansel and Gretel or Red Riding Hood show us that telling a good story has little to do with power.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:40, Sun 30 Jan 2022.
Acciaio
Player, 3 posts
Moros Guardian
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 10:02
  • msg #23

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Okay, I think I'm done... and I've got one dot of Sanctum to donate wherever y'all think it's needed.
Storyteller
GM, 12 posts
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 12:57
  • msg #24

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Thanks Link for replying to Arwen's question!

You covered all the basics and then some, but do let me know if anyone's got any further questions about magic/spellcasting, legacies, or anything else.
Arwen
Player, 3 posts
Obrimos Free Council
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 13:01
  • msg #25

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Yeah, definitely thanks much Link!  I was reading your post and like, "jeez, why didn't they just put that in the book?"  :D
Link
Player, 5 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 13:32
  • msg #26

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

You're welcome!
Link
Player, 6 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 13:40
  • msg #27

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

There are two changes I still have to make to my character:

- I can't use my shared dot to add to our Hallow, but I'm open to spending it in another way that benefits us (Library maybe? Or sanctum security?)

- I suddenly find myself with spare merit dots, so maybe I'll change my way about taking a legacy.
Chiron
Player, 6 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 14:47
  • msg #28

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Link:
Rotes: If you as an Obrimos cast a spell that isn't Forces or Prime, you have to pay one mana for doing so. Learning a rote saves you the mana.
You should also learn rotes from Forces and Prime if
1.) You plan on using that spell often AND
2.) It's the kind of spell where it is desirable to have lots of successes AND
3.) You have a dice pool for that rote that is clearly better than Gnosis + Arcanum (because you could simply improvise it otherwise). As a Free Council mage, all your rote dice pools that include Crafts, Persuasion and Science are +1.


A few questions based on this.  I've noticed that most of the rotes indicate a particular Order as the origin.  Are we restricted from taking them if we belong to a different order?
 Also, many rotes indicate different possible dice pools.  Are we limited in which one we choose to use when casting / learning that rote?  Finally, is casting a rote more limited than spontaneous casting?

For example, I figure one of Chiron's most commonly used spells will be "Rouse Spirit".  As a rote, his casting pool is either 6 (Free Council version) or 7 (Silver Ladder version).  His spontaneous casting pool for the spell is 6.  The spell isn't contested, but the description notes that mages tend to assign more duration factors, so more successes = good.

1. Can Chiron, as a Mysterieum mage, learn this as a rote at all?
2. If he learns it as a rote, can he choose either version?
3. He's Thyrsus, so can improvise it for no mana, BUT, if he wants successes, the larger dice pool from the SL version gives him more chances.  If he casts it as a rote, can he still use "extra" successes to extend the duration?

I've taken a bunch of rotes in my core Arcana on the assumption that you'd learn be more likely to learn spells from Arcana you know best.  But if rotes are basically a formulaic shortcut for using weaker arcana, I may need to re-draft a little.  This is less about "power", and more about actually being able to do stuff in the game.  If Chiron can reliably run around dropping spirit and life spells, he's better off learning utility rotes from his weaker arcana, yeah?
Storyteller
GM, 13 posts
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 15:09
  • msg #29

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Chiron:
Link:
Rotes: If you as an Obrimos cast a spell that isn't Forces or Prime, you have to pay one mana for doing so. Learning a rote saves you the mana.
You should also learn rotes from Forces and Prime if
1.) You plan on using that spell often AND
2.) It's the kind of spell where it is desirable to have lots of successes AND
3.) You have a dice pool for that rote that is clearly better than Gnosis + Arcanum (because you could simply improvise it otherwise). As a Free Council mage, all your rote dice pools that include Crafts, Persuasion and Science are +1.


A few questions based on this.  I've noticed that most of the rotes indicate a particular Order as the origin.  Are we restricted from taking them if we belong to a different order?
 Also, many rotes indicate different possible dice pools.  Are we limited in which one we choose to use when casting / learning that rote?  Finally, is casting a rote more limited than spontaneous casting?

For example, I figure one of Chiron's most commonly used spells will be "Rouse Spirit".  As a rote, his casting pool is either 6 (Free Council version) or 7 (Silver Ladder version).  His spontaneous casting pool for the spell is 6.  The spell isn't contested, but the description notes that mages tend to assign more duration factors, so more successes = good.

1. Can Chiron, as a Mysterieum mage, learn this as a rote at all?
2. If he learns it as a rote, can he choose either version?
3. He's Thyrsus, so can improvise it for no mana, BUT, if he wants successes, the larger dice pool from the SL version gives him more chances.  If he casts it as a rote, can he still use "extra" successes to extend the duration?

I've taken a bunch of rotes in my core Arcana on the assumption that you'd learn be more likely to learn spells from Arcana you know best.  But if rotes are basically a formulaic shortcut for using weaker arcana, I may need to re-draft a little.  This is less about "power", and more about actually being able to do stuff in the game.  If Chiron can reliably run around dropping spirit and life spells, he's better off learning utility rotes from his weaker arcana, yeah?


So my general rule of thumb is that if a Rote shows up in the core Mage the Awakening book, anyone can learn the rote. Feel free to use whatever version of the rote is more beneficial to you (in your example, use the SL version instead of FC since it gives you a higher dice pool). For Rotes that are found in specific Order books, then those are considered "secrets" of that Order and cannot be learned by member of a different Order at character creation. There may be ways to learn those in-game if your character manages to gain access to another Order's secrets somehow. For Rotes found in other books that aren't the core MtAw book or the Order books, please check with me to make sure :)

Casting a Rote isn't necessarily more limited than an improvised casting. There will be cases in which your Gnosis + Arcana will be a higher dice pool than the Rote, so you may not want to spend XP on that rote. Generally speaking though, Rotes tend to have higher dice pools since they are using Attribute + Skill + Arcana. So if you are hoping to cast a spell with a lot of successes, then having a higher dice pool will be beneficial to you.

Rotes aren't just a formulaic shortcut for using weaker Arcana. It can be beneficial to have Rotes from Arcana not in your Path to help save some Mana, but in some cases you may end up having a higher dice pool with an improvised casting, so then you'd have to evaluate whether saving the 1 mana cost is worth having the lower dice pool.

I think Link's suggestions about how to figure out whether you want to buy a Rote or not are fairly spot on. One addition I'd make is that casting Vulgar spells via a Rote instead of improvised casting can also help with mitigating some Paradox, so that's another thing to consider which Rotes to learn.
Mamanu
Player, 4 posts
Acanthus
Adamantine Arrow
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 16:04
  • msg #30

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Link:
There are two changes I still have to make to my character:

- I can't use my shared dot to add to our Hallow, but I'm open to spending it in another way that benefits us (Library maybe? Or sanctum security?)

- I suddenly find myself with spare merit dots, so maybe I'll change my way about taking a legacy.


Security is a solid choice for this, and it'll put us at 4/5 which is almost capped.
Chiron
Player, 7 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 17:18
  • msg #31

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Storyteller:
Casting a Rote isn't necessarily more limited than an improvised casting. There will be cases in which your Gnosis + Arcana will be a higher dice pool than the Rote, so you may not want to spend XP on that rote. Generally speaking though, Rotes tend to have higher dice pools since they are using Attribute + Skill + Arcana. So if you are hoping to cast a spell with a lot of successes, then having a higher dice pool will be beneficial to you.


Thanks ST (and Link!).  In my example above, if Chiron casts Rouse Spirite as a Rote, and gains extra successes, is he able to use those extra successes to boost the duration?  Or is that only if he casts as improvised?
Storyteller
GM, 14 posts
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 17:26
  • msg #32

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

In reply to Chiron (msg # 31):

Yes, he should still be able to assign the extra successes to duration regardless.
Chiron
Player, 8 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 20:28
  • msg #33

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 32):


So, based on this discussion, I can free up 4xp from Organic Resilience, as there doesn't seem to be any utility for extra successes.  Any use for the xp in the sanctum, or should I just pick up another utility rote?

As an aside, Link, Chiron is a Neocologist, and is thinking about awakening the sanctum spirit.  Given Link's computer bent, and the risk of "vulgarity", any interest in some in-game cooperation to channel the spirit into some kind of localised AI / Alexa situation?
Arwen
Player, 4 posts
Obrimos Free Council
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 20:34
  • msg #34

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Arwen is definitely a city girl and would for sure enjoy a supernaturally awesome Alexa.

Just out of curiosity, am I correctly interpreting peoples' remarks here to indicate that we have a Physical-focused character and a few more Mental-focused characters?  I'm thinking of a few different ways I could go with Arwen but if there's an obvious social-skills.attributes gap in our party at the moment then I'm completely happy to go that way.
Link
Player, 7 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 20:37
  • msg #35

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Chiron:
In reply to Storyteller (msg # 32):


So, based on this discussion, I can free up 4xp from Organic Resilience, as there doesn't seem to be any utility for extra successes.  Any use for the xp in the sanctum, or should I just pick up another utility rote?

As an aside, Link, Chiron is a Neocologist, and is thinking about awakening the sanctum spirit.  Given Link's computer bent, and the risk of "vulgarity", any interest in some in-game cooperation to channel the spirit into some kind of localised AI / Alexa situation?


I have no idea what a neocologist is or does. Which book is that? Awakening the spirit?
Chiron
Player, 9 posts
Can I try that?
Thyrsus Mysterium
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 20:49
  • msg #36

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

In reply to Link (msg # 35):

Tome of the Watchtowers.  They're a Thyrsus legacy that seeks to transplant nature spirits into "modern" / industrial homes.  Rather than save nature by fighting modernity, they try to bridge the gap, and help spirits survive in the new world.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:58, Sun 30 Jan 2022.
Arwen
Player, 5 posts
Obrimos Free Council
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 22:55
  • msg #37

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Here's a thing I googled btw, that I've found useful in helping me contemplate spells.

http://wodcodex.com/wiki/Spells,_All_(1st_Edition)
Mamanu
Player, 5 posts
Acanthus
Adamantine Arrow
Sun 30 Jan 2022
at 23:50
  • msg #38

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

I suggest that our library topic be The Consilium of DC. They can be the last records of the previous Consilium and a springboard for us to go and reclaim lost territory or establishing new territory. It also kinda gives us a focus to work with as a cabal, being investigating and recovering what was lost.
Storyteller
GM, 16 posts
Mon 31 Jan 2022
at 01:03
  • msg #39

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Arwen:
Arwen is definitely a city girl and would for sure enjoy a supernaturally awesome Alexa.

Just out of curiosity, am I correctly interpreting peoples' remarks here to indicate that we have a Physical-focused character and a few more Mental-focused characters?  I'm thinking of a few different ways I could go with Arwen but if there's an obvious social-skills.attributes gap in our party at the moment then I'm completely happy to go that way.


I think that sounds about right, and given Arwen's background, it does make sense for her to have some strong social skills!
Link
Player, 8 posts
Mastigos
Silver Ladder
Mon 31 Jan 2022
at 10:58
  • msg #40

Re: OOC: Obligatory OOC Thread

Link's brainy.
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