I think the Temple of Zeus has controlled water fountains that swoop down? The DM post seemed a bit abstract, and I couldn't entirely follow what was going on, but I will do the best I can. I can sometimes be a bit simple so, sometimes things need to be broken down for me.

In reply to Lady Maevre (msg # 157):

Yeah I think we should head directly for the Temple of Zeus, leave that priest to his fate. As a noble savage, Garaxus has a little use for cities in general. All he needs he can gather from nature as his survival ability is substantial.

He would of course help innocence and the helpless, if possible and the situation allows, but this priest is hardly innocent. At least if I'm reading the situation right.

There is a lot of collateral damage going on and I assume that at least some of the city folk are relatively innocent. I want to have Aranea work to help them but I am not clear how to do that... Would a climb speed be hindered by the rubble?

I was thinking about NOT having my character actively hating the Greek pantheon at large.

Aranea is going to try to get closer to the priest to discover what side they, or this city is on. Her speed is almost twice a normal folk's and her climb is still faster than most people's walk.

Your goal is to separate the fabric of Izrador and merge it with the creature who created the prophecies, although you're not sure if this being is going to 1. mathc the good blessings of the gods or 2. be able to match their power. Currently it's like the Odyssey, Poseidon vs. Athena, and Zeus sits it out, fearing the day he gets ousted from power. Hubris means that you can maintain your character's vivacity by re-rolling criticals to get an exploding roll, which means you will strike twice as many times (useful at high levels).

The library is a sacred location, and those who told you the prophecies are like the priest, humble and aimless. Without a certain handshake using shocking grasp, you're uncertain where the magical markings that you're looking for are located. So you'll need to solicit the aid of the town patrol. Their barracks is located in the southwest. The priest is one of Eleni's former partners in crime and she is able to garner support to assemble followers to snuff out the power nexuses, having abused their power. Evil quickly switches to good in Midnight, so the fire elementals will merge with the astirax when you attempt to siphon the liquid magic out of a what the humans call "lifestones," cementing your control over the primal forces. The spectacle in Baden's Bluff has slipped the dark god's notice, and you are able to serve either him or Poseidon in their masculine strife against the Athenian elemental presence. You suspect some of the elthedar, the elder elves, might be thieves who are able to assist you in vanquishing the presence of the polytheistic and imperial cult in the region.

I'm sorry TMI, totally unable to understand what is happening ATM.

I share this

I think we need to slow things down. And make it so that the players do things. At the moment the GM is doing things with our characters.

In reply to Lady Maevre (msg # 164):

Yeah, I agree with what was said by the other two players. This is way too much information, it is way too abstract and I have no way of knowing really what's going on.

I think the story would be okay if it was  linear and logical to the actions of the players. Right now, I feel like it's just a chaotic stream of consciousness that makes sense to the DM, but does not really have a connection to the story in the player's mind.

I don't really think slowing things down is going to help, In the story's current framework. Personally, I think we need another hard reset and figure out some very key things about this story and it's world in general. I think the main thing is that the DM has an idea of the story and we the players have a completely different idea of the story.

1. We need to come up with a simple premise, demon god invades the Greek pantheon and the mythical Greek world. No weird Nexus, no spell crafting things that are not in the book, no changing tons of standard rules. Think changing a few things is fine but when it becomes tons of changes, we're no longer playing the game as we know it. This leads to confusion.

2. We need to pick a Pantheon and stick with it. No multipathions going on. No Gray hawk or forgotten realms gods jumping into the mix.

3. The players control their characters. The DM controls everything else. Cooperative storytelling, and a fun easy to follow story is key.

4. Goals should be clear-cut and easy to understand. There needs to be better communication.

5. All old IC threads should be deleted. Character creation thread should be updated. The game intro should be the synopsis with goals laid out.

6. Since there are a lot of new players who have not really been able to jump in, I really feel we should start over sadly again. Think of it as a rehearsal we're trying to work out the bumps.

7. I feel the world as it has been, is WAY too magic heavy. Being forcibly teleported from place to place, is not fun. Part of the enjoyment of adventuring is traveling from place to place, is letting the players get to know each other, show off their skills, get to roleplay. It seems that enemies are disappearing and reappearing constantly, which leads to even more confusion. Temples have weird, aqueducts and pulley systems instead of having simple stairs. Nothing really makes sense.

8. I think all of us need to just hammer out what we want in a game, the DM and all those players. I want all of us to have fun and have a good time, and I don't think many of us are right now. Let's change that, communicate and cooperate.

I hope all of you will not see these eight problems as complaints, but the opening of a dialogue. That's said, I don't see this game going on much longer as is.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:54, Thu 19 Jan 2023.

I agree with 7 out of 8 points. And that point is a minor one. I'm OK with the teleporting. But I'm OK with not teleporting too. Kind of 'dealer's choice' and I would go with it

The most important two issues for me are 'what are our goals' and 'I control my character and do my character's actions'.

In reply to Lady Maevre (msg # 166):

I would be okay with being teleported too, if I felt the game made logical sense.

A player controlling their character and their character's actions, is absolutely critical for role-playing. At this point, I feel like we're just being thrown back and forth in a fantasy novel, that we are not writing or have any say in. To boot, I also don't know what's going on in this fantasy novel. I also have no firm foundation of this world or what it's about.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:02, Thu 19 Jan 2023.

Agreed, I've been considering that too, I have no idea what is happening, I guess I'm just a slow witted old man. ;-(

One thing that can help is a simple map, not a full on combat grid, but a map that updates with each new DM post.

I like the scene being portrayed, but it is very easy to get lost in the descriptions, especially if you are not immediately familiar with all of the Gods/Goddesses/People. I usually pull up a description of each and re-read them to get the whole picture.

In my experience, changing one or two major items each post is probably best. It helps with the sense of continuity. I can understand how we are having a hard time keeping up. If a lot of information needs to be put out, then breaking each major piece into it's own paragraph is a good method for this, or just separating the posts.

Rule of thumb - Slow and steady is better than quick and dirty.

I agree with the overall sentiments of the other PCs. Our DM has obviously put a lot of time and effort into this story, and the characters seem very interesting. I'm looking forward to exploring with all of you.

If we need a reset that is fine. I also think we could just reset the current scene now that we understand our goal to get to the temple and get the arrow.

I'd like to add to what Eleni said.

There is goodness in the story. As she says there is a lot of effort that has gone into this, and a deep rich and full world in the GMs mind. I'm looking forwards to getting over these teething troubles and appreciate it more.

I personally when GMing find maps too hard. I do sometimes ascii art them for starting position, but I rarely update them. I do like put in 'status blocks' which detail what NPCs can be seen and what is known about them. Nothing exotic just something like. I also sometimes put 'summaries' into them because I am prone to 'wall of text'

In reply to Lady Maevre (msg # 170):

That is very well said. I think that  the game has a lot of potential. The DM and US players all have the same goal in mind, and that is just to have a great time. If we get over these teething troubles and smooth the bumps in the road, I think we'll have a great game.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:29, Thu 19 Jan 2023.

I would also like to say that, I like the idea of getting away from maps, grids and tokens, relying more on the theater of imagination.

Now that said, when your main vehicle is the theater of imagination, and you don't rely on maps, grids and tokens, things have to be very clear.

If people can't understand what a post is saying, then people are going to have a hard time imagining it and properly roleplaying. That's why people stick to maps, grids and tokens. Because it's easier to get across a clear message or show people what something actually looks like.

I agree completely. The map suggestion was just to help the more visually oriented with things or to help clear up confusion with a large post. It is not meant to be a hassle nor requirement. Sometimes a picture can explain things if the words are not being understood by everyone.

I also think it's going to be a fun time. I have a friend who does a lot of digital art and she is already drawing Eleni for me. I put the current concept art in my Character Description :)
This message was last edited by the player at 23:00, Thu 19 Jan 2023.

In reply to Eleni (msg # 173):

Maps don't matter to me too much on 97% of the time

I'm posting in a high romantic style, and leaning hard on the roleplay as opposed to rollplay, as I said earlier. I don't foresee the game changing that much, as there is the ideal and then the real. So Garaxus if you want to take over GMing duties that would be fine. Basically I started by saying that spells and magic items are the critical components, although it is simply a smattering. But I can't just magically change my style, so I am happy to be a player in a Garaxus-led game. It's hectic and there is definitely an experience chasm, obviously just a re-hash from earlier but there would have been things from Shackled City tossed in to the stream. But I can play Garaxus or even Nikodemus, seeing as there's a novelistic flair that people don't like.

In reply to wlake.gmtn (msg # 175):

I understand what your saying. However, I have no wish to take over another DM's game. I only wished to hammer out something we could all live with. Perhaps do some cleaning up on the game site.

So, I wish you and the other players the best of luck. No hard feeling, we just have different styles. Thank you for the opportunity to play in your game. Farewell.

The problem isn't the novellist flair. It's that we don't know what is going on, and that the GM is controlling our characters. The last is an absolute no-no for most of the players here. It certainly is for me

The basic premise in a roleplaying game is that the GM sets the scene, describes consequences of actions, fills the world with as many interesting NPCs as they want. BUT and it's a big BUT.... the players control the actions of their characters. Not the consequences of the actions.

It's this that is making it impossible to play in your world. The confusion is something you will have to improve on, and that's an important skill for a novelist. But if you insist on playing our characters as well, then they aren't our characters.

This does slow you down a little, but not as much as controlling them slows you down. RPOL is slower than you want, but by taking over control of the PCs you kill the game and we need to start again.

You can of course steer the PCs through information, through OOC etc. But not 'Move' us. By 'Move' I mean the Gm writes 'Lady Maevre pulled an item out of her pocket and cast a spell from it'. At that point I became an NPC. Especially because the action involved items that didn't exist on the character sheet.

I'm willing to stay if you are going to leave me a PC. That means I control my characters actions

Hmmmm, this looks bad. Are we ending, or resetting, or what? Garaxus has quit.

GM and players, if you want to come, feel free to drop a request. farewell. :)


link to another game

We can keep going, I'll try to take some suggestions and place them into effect. Despite what I said about my style being static, I'm willing to play without doing actions with the players. So it'll be slightly less novelistic. I can only focus on one game at a time, so maybe the Parthenon will be waiting in the wings. Garaxus, I would assume that's your game? It looks well-organized and interesting, I especially like how you classify the main gods as lawful evil.

So the assumption is that Jil calls out your name and she is only level 2. She wants to achieve the heroic path of assassin, which grants tons of hit dice in sneak attacks and BAB is shared on the level of fighter. Thus she appears as a cloud of darkness, who with Athena will be your guide around the underworld, sharing the duties of Hermes. You encounter certain flaming cattle whose HP sit around ten, and they have an AC of 10. Coups de grace on these steer will result in attracting Zeus' ire, but the fire elementals are now lighting up the temple as though enlarged fireball at 3d10 damage. If you step into the temple, you'll find that the pronaos collapses into a fiery chasm, this is what you sense without stepping into the hallway. As it is Greece, money doesn't change nature from one place to another until you change form or step out into a different broken kingdom.

The riot that is going on seems to be magically tied to the presence of fire, once the two die down together there is a certainty that will settle upon the group. You will develop a DR to fire equal to the number of fire elementals that you vanquish and bring to the temple. The priest and Jil seem to think this is very important religious acumen which is why they're following you around. You know somehow that you're supposed to meet the elves in the temple to enlist aid from the town watch in vanquishing the forces of Ares who are taking advantage of the riots by stealing from shop windows; shop windows are new to Baden's Bluff, having picked up a glass contract, and the church is supposedly willing to do a "glass tattoo," something of an arcane mark that has resonance with the location of the temple.

If you want to fight the elementals, their stats are as follows:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm

It's the stats for the small elemental, the easiest one. But they work out to level five. There are four at each corner of the temple and you figure someone is doing a planar alignment with the black flames of Izrador, so if you bottle up the fire you're able to take it to the elves at the center of the temple. The glass shipment will generate money for you as you can own the church if you succeed in vanquishing the fire, combined with Aranea's herbalism skills this will win you some coin from the chancellery to control the church's supply of glass. Premonition-wise you figure that the black flame of Izrador, if pictured, will land you a title of iconoclast within the church. Upon the roof of the temple is bottled lightning, you can sense this from your patron gods.  The light bends in time with the lightning, and the thief upon the roof is now jumping towards the temple, having seen, you figure, something like what Constantine did. The marble of the temple was quarried from where the night strikes the stone, Eleni sensing from Hades that there is a magical ship that can contain infinite glass.

Are you guys still interested in playing? I tried to take your suggestions into effect, not sure what rules can be changed to suit the new style.

4000 gp, the Cuirass of Hope

Master smiths tried their hardest to, in their foundries, eke out a line or two for the curvature of the breastplate. The marks are those of Hades, and they speak of a library, a very specific situation, in which the weight of the user comes into play with the society that brought it into being, the Retribution of Scryah. This guild came into a large grant that stands in line with the Crown of Eurydice as far as the renown of the ancient artifacts goes.

+2 CON, +2 STR, DR 2/piercing, DR 1/bludgeoning DR1/slashing: the material is such that it almost floats off the chest, directing arrows this and that way in a gesture towards Deflect Arrows. If submerged under water, the ACP is able to bent arrows to the very core, offering chances to remain merely points upon a shaft, regenerating the armor with each hit. Thus you shorten the range increments of the enemy archers to the extent that you are able to climb uphill to fight them until you see the whites of their eyes.

Squeezing into a portal is the last thing on the minds of the users of the Cuirass of Hope, and they are unable to retreat into a solid mass of plate which will assault you from the plane of Ares, whose cult is busy cranking out materials from the source of all things, the mount Olympus, where the energies of mankind are channeled into the eldethar ideas. There exists a kinship between the forests of the eldethar and the smiths of mankind, for all of the ore is sourced from the forests where wildfires proliferate. The rogues are after this piece as it is looted from the graves of some of the most ancient of kings, and the term "hope" sits against the nature of the piece eons ago. It indicates that there is an elven presence in the city of Baden's Bluff where the major magic item shop drifts against the sky, Skie's Treasury. If you combine the plate with black fire, you can add to the item slots in such a manner as to augment your Search and Spot skills, seeing as the plate was crafted in the presence of pet owls whose flights reward the smiths with fresh ores even as they hammer away the hours.

The guilds are heavily recruiting in Baden's Bluff, offering extraordinary abilities to those willing to bring in any of the items of the set of Hope. The spider forest outside, made of shocked and withered grey trees, offers a glimpse at the element of fire which will let the molten iron form cities towering above those wooden ones of the elves, situations coursing at you from vantage points within human cities, drifters haunting your steps as scouts converge upon Baden's Bluff. CR 4 astirax are yours for the taking, d10 hit dice marking their descent from the mountains surrounding the town, for on top of the riots there is a small presence of Izrador, an underground force ready to be reckoned with.

I'm for taking out the enemy spies, and freeing fellow spiders from the Dark One. There are few powers I'm comfortable supporting... freedom is good.