You do it so well.

Happy holidays!  To all my fellow menaces and the Storyteller who has to wrangle us all.  ;)

In reply to Eva Bennett (msg # 153):

It's like herding cats :P

Well, three (potential) options for a way forward! Though admittedly, I'm a proponent of perhaps splitting the middle as it were and being a conniving little neonate grasping at opportunity. ;)

One side wants to solidify & find the Prince. One side wants to go to open war. And the third group is whispering amongst themselves. I'd say we split right down the middle for them all; we're likely going to be the ones having to enact whatever is decided here, so might as well make it as advantageous to ourselves as possible!

So I'd say we offer a way to accomplish all the goals at once. If the Prince is captured (likely), then Alexander has her - given her message of he and his packs being responsible. Rescuing the Prince would mean confronting Alexander directly as well, but rather than going to flat out open war in the streets, having us do it keeps the Masquerade a little safer. We might have to bend it a little if worse comes to worse, but covering up for a handful of displays is easier than covering up dozens across the entire city. And, of course, we could try to limit those to as few as possible! Then, naturally, while we're rescuing the Prince, if we just so happen to find a means to neutralize (figuratively or literally) Alexander and/or his packs... well, so much the better and everyone is happy. This of course pulls in the third group with their whispering secrets.. I'm sure they have information that would help either/both of those causes. Likely location of the Prince. Where Alexander is based. Weak points in defenses of either/both. Things of that nature.


End result of it all: Prince is recovered, Sabbat threat is eliminated or severely weakened and none of them have to get their own hands dirty (or risk their own necks). Of course, we could also ask for a few... dispensations for the endeavor to help things along. ;) A little leeway on the Masquerade (though not a blank check to go crazy), perhaps some tools to help us along (weapons, etc) and - potentially - an allowance to drain some Sabbat to give them the Final Death ala Amaranth/Diablerie if the need arises. Though that last may be a big ask considering the connotations and stigma. Hehe.

Seren's priority is discretion, maintaining the Masquerade and ensuring she doesn't annoy her current host, which is the Sherriff, Louis Vachon.

If possible, she's going to want to speak with Louis and support whatever choice he makes.

As a player, I'm happy to go with the flow, though, and it sounds like you've thought things out well. Seren will have a good reason to go with whatever the group chooses, but she'd certainly want to ensure as much subtlety as possible. :)

Agreed. Sticking to the Masquerade is just good common sense; though it can also tie your hands if you're trapped in a corner. Do you escape/win by breaking it or let yourself be killed but uphold the rules? In a major war such as what's being debated, I think it could be argued that "minor" breaches might be justifiable. No one can go into city hall and put on a show of course, but at the risk of one or two bystanders seeing something happening at that abandoned house or in a back alley if it means winning against the Sabbat... well, they 'might' be willing to look the other way once or twice. As long as its 'minor'. Maybe! :D

First i want to make sure i understand the problem.  Sometimes i read what i think is there and not what is actually there, or i miss something.

1) The prince is dead, and from the grave said the seneschal should be the new prince.
2) we have suspected sabbat open attack on the club (which maybe i missed it but i assume that is what killed the prince)

so assuming there are not others:

The solution appears to be select a prince and have the prince order an organized a retaliatory strike on the sabbat.

I would say the Seneschal becomes prince, but in order to satisfy the gangrel primogen, he is appointed war leader under the condition that he must do his best to protect the masquerade, but otherwise has free hand in how he feels best to deal with the sabbat.  Also, the prince declares blood hunt on all sabbat in the city, until further notice, which then releases some resources and makes it everyones problem in the city to offer some aid.

Which i am pretty sure means us against the sabbat...  The main problem in dealing with sabbat being identification which will have to be dealt with later.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:54, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

I'm not a completely inflexible player, Seren does what she has to - after all, she's a Ventrue and she's pissed off her own Sire by escaping from him. She's willing to do what needs must, but if there are two options and one is more difficult but upholds the Masquerade better, she'd be willing to put the extra work in :)

@Chiharu:
The Prince is captured, not dead. Her abilities are considerable and she is able to project a spirit version of herself over vast distances. It is unlikely that Alexander will allow that to happen again.

The Council would certainly support a Blood Hunt within the confines of Montreal Island, but that isn’t what the Gangrel Primogen is proposing, he wasn’t all out war.

owo now we know who stole the Prince. Let's go mess up Alexander! ;)

sorry i didnt catch that the prince wasn't dead, then the seneschal is in charge.

As far as what alexander wants and what he can get are not the same thing.

Anyway that is my suggestion.

He doesnt have to be the one to have done it, he could interfere just because he wants a war, but he isnt old enough to understand that no one wins a war there are people that lost less.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:39, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

Whew, all kinds of things to catch up on! Eva, unsurprisingly, is going to be most inclined to support her Grandsire in all this, though as mentioned that wouldn’t necessarily mean only supporting him; she’d be fine with pursuing two goals. So splitting the difference between options one and three would be my first choice. Eva gets to help out Guarin and I get to satisfy my OOC desire to track down all those tempting secrets being whispered about. :D

Anything involving all-out war isn’t going to be Eva’s strong suit, naturally, but as a player I’m ready to deal with whatever the majority decides.

The Sabbat want the war. They want to end the Masquerade, subject humanity to rule by vampires, find Caine and bring about Gehenna.

Why Alexander wants a war now in Montreal is anyone’s guess.

dont they know you just have to find the cab driver.

Of course finding the cab driver, and convincing him to start Gehenna before he turns you into powder on the other hand not the same problem.

I mean really what can you threaten Caine with? by the decree of god he cant die.  I can just imagine some sabbat people rolling up to the cab driver, hey dude start gehnenna or our 14th generation butts will kick your ass...

Caine just looks at them like, what the f?

I could see him being a smartass though.

"OK, fine.. its started. That'll be $87.50. Now get out or you die first."

"Did.. did he really start it?" "I dunno... Maybe?"



For our own little fun time, I think a full declaration of war might be able to be claimed as "exactly what the Sabbat want. We don't want to give in to their demands, do we?" So a rescue and more subtle confrontation instead of an open war would be the best route to go. I'm still thinking the Nos party is hiding some good intel about things that might help shift things one way or another too.

Well they messed something up as now my desktop browser looks funky.

Also i am assuming that people know that in official cannon, Caine is a cab driver and is active and walking around.  Caine is the cab driver in the bloodlines game which is considered part of the lore.

Michelson will know this of course, but perhaps the Ventrue Primogen rankles him more than playing into Alexander’s hand.



Perhaps the Justicar and Nosferatu Primogen can be convinced to back your plan?

If the Ventrue Primogen is proving to be an issue... *scheming smile*

That might take some convincing... Anyone have any pull with the Nosferatu?

The Ventrue Primogen we can apparently leave to Seren.  ;)

I'll do my best! <3

By hook or by crook as they say.

What would the vampire equivalent be?

By fang or by b... never mind. 0:)

Haha; sadly, I don't believe David has any pull with the Nosferatu. Though given the circumstances, they may be open to a little.. negotiation. Or might even see the matter as in their best interests. An open war wouldn't help them at all, nor would letting the Sabbat roll over things. Enemy of my enemy and all that. :)

I'm happy to give those Nosferatu uggos free makeup lessons if that'll sweeten the pot.

I can do regular and drag makeup so they all get a turn being ✨f a b u l o u s✨!

... they may all end up looking like Sasha Velour though.


This message was last edited by the player at 18:50, Tue 02 Jan.

Well, maybe they’d like to look like that! Or possibly they’d like music lessons? *ponders*

But Eva is willing to open negotiations with them, at least, if we just want to approach them from the angle of “this is in your best interests, too.” I don’t know that we’ve got a lot more to offer right now. Aside from the glam session. ;)

lmfao sorry, I had to.

But seriously, Seren is willing to sit down at the bargaining table with anyone, but she's a ruthless negotiator so the other party might not be happy with what she lets them have in the deal.

Cnaeus let her read Never Split the Difference once and it went to her head. *shrugs*

Eva’s good at soothing ruffled feathers. Maybe between the two of them they can manage some useful negotiations. I’m not sure if the whole group would want to be involved in that, though possibly it might be better not to seem like we’re ganging up on them anyway.