On heat metal- among the druid spells of that level, it's my favorite, followed by charm person or mammal and cure light wounds.
(The other two rank higher if a mage and cleric are not in the group with their version, of course!)

Sometimes getting someone to shed their armor is as good a result as inflicting extended damage.

In reply to The Host (msg # 860):

Ornwin is also a Level 4 fighter.

Check out the big brain on Archonia, I hadn't considered that angle.  Spell combinations are great, but so is a spell that causes a higher AC for the fighty types to hit.

In reply to Hieroman (msg # 863):

Archonia usually does most of the higher-level thinking for the party. Ornwin just hits things.

Honestly, if we are expecting Archonia to do our thinking, we are lost.
This was probably the first good idea she has had.

We all stood down on Hieroman's recommendation.

I understand, and they can probably be killed automatically while unconscious, but tend to think it is better to take the opportunities we have, especially if it costs us nothing to do so.

What could be an issue is that unconsciousness is not the best-defined state in OSRIC.
Under 'damage and death', it says "when hit points reach 0, the character is unconscious and will continue to lose one hit point per round from blood loss until death occurs at –10 hp. Note that any additional damage suffered by an unconscious character (aside from bleeding) will kill him or her instantly."

So that suggests we can kill someone unconscious automatically if we inflict damage.

But the problem... that is stated after describing unconsciousness from losing all your hit points- but these still have their hit points, and the combat section does not detail that situation. The closest thing is sleeping opponents. And for them, it is not an automatic kill- we would have the same chance for a kill as an assassination attempt, so about a 65% chance on a bugbear for a 4th level character. (Magical sleep works different in that it explicitly allows a kill.)

So, if it works like the former method, there is no problem. We kill them.
But if it works like the latter method, if we do not manage to get the kills and they start to regain consciousness, it is better to have them more wounded rather than less wounded.

Not knowing how the DM handles this, since it's the first time it has come up, I tend to err on the side of caution.

All good points. I don’t presume to know which is the best strategy. As the new guy, just opted to follow the suggestion.

As indicated above, if we decide to whack them, Ornwin will whack them.

If there are any flasks left - Cass does not mind throwing them at the bugbears - we might need the extra damage - I’m not certain the heated metal will be enough to down all the bugbears. Do we know for sure?

@DM indicated one previously thrown flask did not break. Is it retrievable without entering the stinking cloud?

Anyone else have any unthrown flasks???

Bartholemew- Oh, perfectly fine. I threw it out there, but also do not know what the best strategy is, if there even is such a thing. Again, we are probably fine, but I tend to expect the worst-case scenario, and like to be prepared. But it's not like Archonia is in there throwing daggers, so it's clearly not something I consider critical.

Cass- they would take 8d4 damage each as a total, so 20 points on average. Bugbears have an average of 15hp, so there is an excellent chance the spell would be more than enough to down them all. Moreover, having metal helmets while under the spell would leave them unconscious- so we have another chance to end things. So while it would not hurt to throw a javelin or other missile weapon, in case the damage rolls are poor, or they are exceptionally fierce, the oil is probable best saved for when it is most needed.

In essence, Hieroman is probably completely correct in saying the spell should be enough- I just see no issue with helping it along if it costs us nothing to do so, simply for additional reassurance, since the die roller here can be rather mercurial. ^_^

I wondered about this as well. Bart is willing to retrieve it, if so.


Bercy still has three.


I think this is smart, and it was good of you to ask the questions that you did.

I fully agree with Archonia's approach, but in this case I don't think we need to use up any limited resources if we scrutinise the spell details, because I think we have it covered.

We have 1 more round of stinking cloud, which will be the 3rd round of the heat metal.  The spell says on the 3rd round creatures in metal headgear will be made unconscious plus take an additional 2-8hp of damage, after the initial 1d4hp of damage from the previous round.  The spell also continues to inflict damage after they are made unconscious, so I propose it would continue to keep them unconscious, because they would be in utter agony being burned alive.  This is where it is different from sleep when they might wake up.

I'm no doctor, so I do not know the likelihood of an unconscious opponent waking up if they are still receiving ongoing additional damage from an external source.  Sure if the pain stopped they might come to, but if the source of the pain continued burning them worse, I do not think it is likely they become more capable because their bodies would actually be in a worse shape from additional burns.

On the 4th round of the Heat Metal, which will be the 1st round after the Stinking Cloud dissipates, the creatures are still helpless, plus taking 2d4hp of damage which is when we move in and slit their throats, whilst we kick their weapons away from them.  (Just in case)

On the 5th round if they were still alive they'd take another 2d4hp of blistering damage from the spell, and a further 1d4hp of damage on the 6th round.

Hieroman hasn't used her flask of oil, and nor will she.  At best if I am wrong with the above explanation I think any bugbear would only be on a couple of hp, they aren't likely to be still holding weapons, and they will fairly easy kills for the group.

No.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:38, Fri 26 Apr.

I figured this was the case, which was why I hadn't mentioned it in prior rounds.

Just in case it just needed to be asked and hasn't.  Can we see that all the bugbears within the cloud wear helms or metal headgear

In reply to Hieroman (msg # 876):

I thought about this and decided that there was a 20% chance one wouldn't be.

14:40, Today: The Host rolled 35,66,99,54,54 using d100,d100,d100,d100,d100 ((35,66,99,54,54)).

#3 is not a metalhead.

I guess we have to do #3 the hard way. At least if he does not have a helmet, he should be vulnerable to an axe.

I'd say that's a fair assessment Host.

He's still taking damage and next round he'll be the only one left standing, as the others faint.  At that time we'd be alerted to him needed more attention.   Something that 1st ed ADND can handle well is the ongoing agony he'd be in given that he'd be all blistered from the metal and it would still be searing hot and hampering his movement.  That's up to the DM to decide which is what I like about this system.

Does it appear as if the ceiling where the chest is, is subject to reverse gravity?  That's the only way I can think of a chest resting upside down on the ceiling, like it floating/fell up there or it is stuck to the ceiling, but the write up doesn't say it is stuck.    How do we know it is upside down, does it have a domed lid or something?

Since this would perhaps level several of us up, perhaps we should not be proceeding further until we take this opportunity.

Totally agree with camping, and relearning spells plus your guys XP for levelling.

In reply to Archonia (msg # 881):

The near side of the lake, the one without the shrine, I take it?

The watch order will need to be updated.

@Hieroman -- Yes, it appears that gravity has been reversed, at least around the chest.

Perhaps this?


Perhaps 2 1/2 hours each?

(If we prefer to keep it three shifts, then delete the last, add Bart to the first shift, and Hieroman to the second.)

As for where to camp, I was thinking the beach at area 3 on the map (msg #45) would be fine, with most people sleeping in the eastern corridor, those on watch outside, and perhaps Hieroman could set her net on the beach or the other side of the corridor, so if something comes from the water or through the door, it might find itself ensnared.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:51, Sun 28 Apr.

Works for me!