Pathfinder and D&D is traditionally a much slower experience; from the premise of the game you wanted this to be faster. If it is too fast, adjust it to your tastes; the speed of advancement is supposed to be entirely in the DM's hands and that makes sense to me. I'm definitely here for it either way, your scenarios have been pretty nicely put together.

Unrelated; but the next time we have area of affects on the battlemap, can the software you are using render them? Helps for stuff like ash storm, etc.

I am mostly done with Taliesin, just need to select some spells, and get some final equipment.

@Gorum: I'm fine with going with the group's decision on this matter. If you forced me to decide on a point, I'd say maybe slow once we hit the 8-10 range. I feel like that's when most of the builds come into their own.

And if you want to granularise the way levelling works, Unchained has a set of alternate rules that does exactly that: https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?...thfinder%20Unchained

It's not great, to be honest though. But it is some granularity.

@Puck: I am working with the full 16k budget here, assuming Puck paid back in the time between the fights.

@Uluchi: If you want some DC21 Con poison, I have Beast Shape III access for Emperor Cobra. And for other reptiles and dinosaurs, but IDK the quality of the poison the rest of them have access to.

@Everyone: All I'm saying is Ash Storm is a great spell that I'm definitely preparing, but this time buffing everyone with Ashen Path isn't that easy. A CL6 scroll is 600gp and lasts an hour, so maybe get one. Otherwise, I probably will use it to divide and conquer enemies, if that could work.

Puck's debt to you, Taliesin, is very simple. You have 140 gp more in your current budget, because I had more in previous scenario, as we agreed on. I certainly can spare the cash in my current budget.

I definitively can grant people Ashen Path as lvl 7 caster? Up to 7 people get the good stuff. Save your scroll budget, I might buy one for casting if necessary.

Other than that? I picked up a very cool buff spell, Visualization of the Body! Unfortunately material component is of the costly kind but I can spare the cash for it, luckily.

But it gives me two things: Bonus HP AND panic button heal (gotta love those Immediate Action heals). I won't use it for other stats, have Feral Focus for that.

What I am contemplating of getting is taking a Wand of Summon Nature's Ally. But do have question! Am I correct in assuming that when using wand to cast a spell, you do standard action instead of following the spell's casting time?

I never used wands in Pathfinder games, thus why I'm asking such questions. Mosquito Swarm spam!

We can just say that Puck paid back which ends up with the regular gp for both of us. And honestly, I will probably end up with some additional cash anyway.

Visualisations are good spells for long-term buffs. Which reminds me, do the scrolls for spells with expensive components also double the cost for the component? Normally, a scroll of VotB is 350gp (150gp scroll base + 200gp component). Is that 700gp for us (straight doubling) or 500gp (only doubling the scroll part)?

Though the "you" targeting makes them tricky to use if you don't have them on your spell list.

Wands, unfortunately, do take longer to use if their spell takes longer than a standard action to cast.

Oh! Beast Shape is a game-changer for poison production. Emp Cobra is about as good as it gets from BS III at least as far as con damage goes. Juvenile Seps (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/besti.../seps/seps-juvenile/) and Uraeus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/besti...gical-beasts/uraeus/) would be the other ones I'd be interested in getting my hands on. Can you shift into magical beasts that fit your criteria or just animal atm?

It's wild shape (with some early access from my archetype), so unfortunately I can't do magical beast forms. I don't think there is a way to add magical beasts to the mix, but I can check.

Thanks for the tip about Wands Taliesin. Will probably still take one, but will have to think it trough more first.

What kind of terrain is the road we are travelling on? I picked "sickening entanglement" as a spell, but preparing that spell makes little sense say if we know that we are traversing a barren mountain.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:25, Sat 25 June 2022.

The road goes over mostly flat open fields, with some hills.  There's generally enough vegetation around to support an entangle spell.

*checks the game menu*

Okay, I might be dumb and blind moment here. But did I miss something guys? *looks very confused*

I don't think so. My question was a pre-emptive one. Since Tal is preparing his spells way before the encounter, but would also probably know what kind of terrain they will be travelling.

With that, he should be done though.

Looking at my expenses, maybe I should fit a Craft Wondrous Items in here somewhere. But my feat space is a bit tight, I still need like 2 feats to top this build off. Does anyone else consider taking an item creation feat in the near future?

I may take that Feat next level? Planned to get Weapon Focus so I miss 5% less.

But ... Puck is shit at everything not related to making arrows/bows? Don't even have a Spellcraft skill. Heck, I didn't take my favourite Alchemy!

Though with Gorum letting us cooperate so Sesa have Alchemy, Taliesin could provide Spellcraft and then I could provide Craft Wondrous Item.

And then we make a nuke! :P

The crafting rules let you use others w/o the crafting feat to provide requirements, yes. So we only need one copy of any particular crafting feat throughout the roster to get crafting rolling.

I'm more excited about getting a discount on my belt upgrade than on a nuke, but tomato tomato :P

Then I would like to ask for an advice! What item crafting feat would be best for Puck to take?

Here are the options I contemplated:
-There are hollow-bullet style of arrows, that can be filled with Holy Water or a potion. That would mean Craft Potions would be choice to consider.

But Gorum gave moratorium on customizing items, thus I'm iffy. One thing is having a Fireball potion that explodes when vial is damaged, because auto-activation when outside of vial.

Another is having a potion-tipped arrow. Like the before-mentioned Fireball in arrow form. I think it would be pushing against rules Gorum established even with just potion-formed Fireball.

I, for example, would love potions of Vision of Body made for all aspects (to have all of them)!


Craft Wondrous Items have amazing utility, even when we are blocked from not-canon recipes. But it would, at best, cheapened our weakest items. Like my Efficient Quiver. It's nice touch but I wish to maximize utility we get from that Feat, yanno?

What would benefit the party the most? Scribe Scrolls? Craft Wand(so our Wizards can lob Fireballs everywhere)? Or the before mentioned CWI and CP feats.


Side note, are there books or something for Scrolls in Pathfinder? Saw such silly thing in one video game and grew curious. Imagine a book, but it's enchanted to absorb scrolls, and then you can mentally pick and cast from the absorbed library at your leisure while holding said book.

Craft wonderous gives a discount on stat-boosting items; eg Belts and Headbands as well as Cloaks of Resistance, so 2/6ths of the 'Big Six'; keeping your stats as high as possible and your saves as high as possible are great paths to longevity as adventurers. As a kineticist, my belt of con is far and away my strongest item. Same to be said for headbands for our primary casters.

There are also more wonderous items than every other kind of magic item put together, I'd be willing to bet, so its hard to beat on the flexibility.

For your build in specific, if you want to enhance your ranged attacks, Craft Magics Arms and Armor is gonna be your best bang for buck; +1 enhancement on your bow is the most efficient DPS spend anytime it is affordable, pretty much.

It also enables you to craft specific weapons; there are specific arrows you could be utilizing like https://aonprd.com/MagicWeapon...temName=Vine%20Arrow on the low end or https://aonprd.com/MagicWeapon...ame=Sizzling%20Arrow on the medium end and end-game slinging https://aonprd.com/MagicWeapon...e=Blightburn%20Arrow for big numbers.

Party wide, I think Wonderous is definitely the first priority, followed by Arms & Armor, then probably Rings or Amulets. Wands and scrolls are fine imho but they also tend to not be hugely expensive; they also have real diminishing returns for higher level spells, most of the best wands and scrolls are already affordable, even at double price. If it is a wand of fireballs your after though, yeah, its a bit prohibitive w/o the crafting to bring the price down.

Scroll book, yeah there is an equivalent https://aonprd.com/MagicWondro...tful%20Scroll%20Case

And a more expensive version that just absorbs spells to create a 'scroll' on a charge basis  https://aonprd.com/MagicWondro...ablet%20of%20Arustun

I wasn't really planning to take any item crafting feats in the near future, but might be persuaded to take craft wondrous items. It would definitely be useful, and it would make sense for Koyrai to be the one to take the feat.

If Koyrai happens to die in the next encounter though, I was thinking my next character might be a construct crafter of some sort. Which would include taking the feats Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Construct.

I believe Koyrai is now ready for the next fight.

Thank you for a very good analysis, Sesa. You convinced me that party will benefit the most from Create Wondrous Items feat. More than from Weapon Focus for Puck, that is. :)

Kyorai? Why so defeatist? If Puck takes CWI, you could totes take remaining requirements for golem crafting. But then I wanna a armor-golem! So Puck could totally-not-Gundam peeps.^^


I just wait for a final judgement from Gorum, too. :)

So will we be able to get cheaper items than this time around or next?

Some of them, without a doubt. Remember the crafting time-limit. We have 4 weeks between adventures, each time. If you want Armor+5 of Heavy Fortification? Takes hundred days, on average. So wait of two to three adventures. With 3 crafters cooperating, of course. :)

If we survive to lvl 7? I agreed with our witch and wizard to take Craft Wondrous Items for Puck. It would let us significantly cut into cost of universal items we have, like my Efficient Quiver. Worthy trade-off but won't be immediately available, you remember my craft rolls with the arrows?

Results won't be as disappointing, but slow-ish. Anyhow, without Craft Magic Arms and Armors we are collectively rather fucked anyway! ;)

@Patagogi:  Nobody has taken any item creation feats for this level, from what I can tell.

@Everyone:  So far, Puck and Koyrai have confirmed being done their character sheets.  Is everyone else ready to go?

Tal and Fandor are also done.

Yep, Uluchi has been done for awhile.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:59, Mon 27 June 2022.

Sorry, I've been dealing with a lot IRL lately due to work and other stuff, so I've been unresponsive and a bit delayed. I did everything BUT shop for Veana, which I'll try to get to either today or tomorrow at the latest.

Thanks for your patience! :)

Puck is finished shoppin'. I can borrow up to 67 gp?