I am the newest player, so I don't have much of a hook to hang a hat on, but I will say that I've enjoyed things so far. Having said that, I do recognize that the rest of you have been through a lot more than I have. I will say that it does feel like there is a ton of stuff going on and a lot of background/supplementary information to digest, but I'd been assuming that I would find my feet with time. Then again, I've also been having computer issues, so perhaps I have not been as attentive as I would otherwise be.

That's great that your daughter is going for her masters. That's so amazing. Good for her. You must be so proud of her. \o/

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I think it's awesome that all these characters have such rich back stories. I love that they're so deep. I do. And they don't all have to be nice. It's totally okay if we rub each other the wrong way, or if we never get along at all. From a story perspective that's all great stuff. I think I and Cathal are just explaining that we respond to them based on how that act towards us. Even if they're totally justified in another context for being annoyed, if they come at us with attitude and we don't have the whole picture, then we're going to react based on how it affects us. That's especially true when we already feel like wards of the state. In our own worlds and communities, we were leaders, now we feel like add ons. And there's been no real opportunity for us to shine. We're just plodding through this and the standouts are the mistakes we make.

This isn't my only game and I've seen GMs do this all the time. They know everything and they see everything. To the GM, everything is obvious. But not to us. There is so much going on and we have incorrect assumptions from our own experiences. As an example, When Cordelia and Charlie spoke in that language, I didn't think much of it because we have no idea if there are exceptions to the basic powers or other levels. To be honest, I had no idea that Winter could understand it. Maybe I missed that in the text, or maybe I read it and it didn't register, maybe I was in a different head space. But that just goes to my point. There is so much information and we miss stuff. It's exhausting to mine every statement for clues or meaning.

The balls and pool party might not have been significant events for the overall plot, but they could have been opportunities to give the players (and maybe just me in particular) some fun game play. Character development is an important part of the story. We can't all be just a collection of powers and ancient knowledge in pretty wrappers. I enjoy the social interactions and the personalities. I like the slice of life. I want to live in the world, not just operate in it. So while those events might not have been important to the plot, they could have been important to us a players.

We can move forward to whatever lies ahead, but the journey is as important as the destination. I'm not happy about giving this up after all this time invested, but I haven't been able to get much satisfaction either. I told you what I'd would make me happier and what would keep me interested. If you don't want to do it, then that's fine, but then there's no payback for me continuing to put in the effort.

There might be many interesting things outside the mansion to explore but we lack the impetus to do so.

The only reason for the group to stay at the Mansion is pattern class.

So in the moment it is breakfast, pattern class, lunch, pattern class, dinner, night-time.

Aside this why should we do anything else? We got no reason to do anything right now. No NPC who tried involve themselves with the PC, no conversation that would make a PC say oh I have to poke my nose into the orange warehouse in the modern city because something is going on there.

The NPC are living there live in this game, but do not make the PC part of it. The PC are still the guest on the mansion to learn pattern. Nothing more, nothing else.

I too have no clue why Winter could understand and we not. I would have asked if you clearly had said 'after you walked the pattern you are able to understand every language'. But I have no idea if that is so in this game or not. If you have important information for your player then give the info to them. Because I have no clue. All is equal. Nothing stick out as this might be important and this not.

You think that there is a clue in Charlies retort, a clue that none can understand and with all her behavior only feels like she looks down on the cousins from the beginning on. That is no clue sorry. The whole scene said - I do not want to play babysitter for this useless bunch of them.- That is the felling you give to your players in the moment. As long as we lack the info that we should have understand her but did not why should we go and ask why we do no understood her. And when Winter said she spoke ill of us you had the chance to give/tell us all she said. But you did not.

There might be a ton of stuff going on but no NPC tried to make us part of it or gave us a reason to become part of it.

Again in the moment  it is breakfast, pattern class, lunch, pattern class, dinner, night-time. The only thing I see here for my PC to do is to nod, eat, listen, sleep, repeat. The way you played your NPC so far does not encourage player to ask questions. Most often they are belittled.

The PC had no chance so far to connect. It is all MEGA impersonal without any reason for the PC do to anything aside nod, eat, listen, sleep, repeat.

That is what Rhia is asking for an impetus to do RP and there is none. We do not get any. You say there is a ton of stuff outside the Mansion but you never gave us ANY reason to go outside the Mansion. Freetime is no reason.

You had the chance to let something happen during Rhia and Cathal trip to the town something that would spark their interest to look into it, but nothing.

If player get no impetus to get something to do they will wait till the GM drops the next lesson.

And that is what is happening:

Breakfast, pattern class, lunch, pattern class, dinner, night-time. PC reaction nod, eat, listen, sleep, repeat.

So again what do you as the GM think we should in the moment do else aside nod, eat, listen, sleep, repeat.

We the player are just waiting for something to happen because we have NOTHING to do aside waiting. And the things you set up in between. I was feeling a bit lost about what I was supposed to do it felt more like another thing to make a check mark on then getting the chance of some RP. So smile and wave and wait.

I you gave us any reason to do something else than waiting for the next lesson it was so covered and invisible that I failed to see it.

You think you dump a lot of info on us but  most often you but it in a way that we have no clue what it means.

And then the trip with Charlie, Rhia and Cathal did RP and you interpreted it as we shy from risk. We again and again played out our growing dislike and distrust of Charlie and now you tell us that why shied from risk.

Charlies could have taken the group to a shooting range to get them the basics with the weapons but you represented her as a uncaring arrogant adrenaline junkie.

Please do no get me wrong here. I like what the lessons. I liek what you write. I can feel the living background. I want to be part of it but I lost how to do.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:58, Wed 24 Jan.

Yes, at least she hasn't suffer the catalogue of disasters and Admin screw-ups that has beset my son's path through the education system, although the last screw up was of his own making. Assuming nothing else goes wrong he should get his degree in June, and he's 4 years older.

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I'm not going to go over old ground in relation to discussions I've had with Rhiannon so I'm princilally going to cover points Cathal raised.

Up first is Winter and language. In the day 1 opening I made it very clear that none of you could communicate with any of the household staff. Winter could talk to one or two, but they were very much in the minority. After you walked the Pattern none of you had any issues, and again that is clear in the wakey-wakey thread, talking to anyone.
The whole coverage of language is also in the rules under Pattern Imprint - Bable Fish option which I explicitly state I use. Now if Winter had been a PC at the meeting where Charlie first appeared the chances are the subject would have come up then, but I try and avoid using the character NPCs to railroad the story unless I have to. It was logical in the post Chalie scenario for her to bring it up. So all the information has been there in plain sight, not hidden in any obscure clue.

As to Charlies 'rude' retort, Kenneth brings up having met her at breakfast on the morning after the Opening of the Expo. Cordelia is surprised by this. All of you have encounters with her in you backgrounds. Not only this when she turns up at breakfast, she alludes to the fact she also knows everything about you, and very much in relation to Cathal to whom she gave a very detailed reply to his question.
Again the information was all there in plain sight.

"Breakfast, pattern class, lunch, pattern class, dinner, night-time. PC reaction nod, eat, listen, sleep, repeat."
Yes this has been the Pattern, but learing to use the Pattern appears to have turned off any and all natural curiosity.
Cordelia has regulalry spoken about 'The Castle' and 'The Medieval Town', so has Siobhan. Wyatt when he turns up, Cordelia says he's "Senschal of her Fathers Castle". Has anybody raised any questions relating to it or tried to find out anything about it. No.
In the 'Introduction to Trump' you were also given another set of 'lessons'. Those with Trump ability were also given an additional set which most of them have been working on. So there has been no lack of things to do.
Also very specifically in relation to Cathal and his meeting with Siobhan, she suggested at least one thing he should do, and who to talk to, and where to find her. I had assumed that that was part of his reason for going into town.

And yes I make assumptions based on character actions. Yes I'm aware that both Cathal and Rhiannon reacted very negatively to Charlie. I don't actually have a specific problem with the way they behaved or the way the scenario was roleplayed, you as players have the freedom to play your characters in the way you choose. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to make assumptions about potential future behaviour, nor does it mean that NPCs are not going to jump to the same conclusion. That doesn't mean you have to undergo a sudden personality shift. May be some of the things NPCs keep refering to may have/have had some relavence?

There were a whole stack of clues about Charlie, and no I did not telegraph them, and yes it does mean you may have to read what I write several times, and read several posts, to work it out. One of the precepts of Amber is Intrigue and Trust (or lack of), so if I just tell you everything about everyone, including their mood, objectives, and personal life history, that removes all those elements, and would make things very boring from my perspective. Oh and Charlie was on a schedule, so she wasn't going to do anything other than what she needed to do. You're free to interpret that as you will. The fact she got shot did scupper a few things, or at least alter what she did (and yes there is a clue there for Sarah, although that is a 'future' event in relation to where she is currently).

I will go on and I will poke my nose around.

I hope that Rhia stays and I  will try to drag her along.

That depends on the GM. I just read how we weren't engaging the story of the NPCs and the world. There was not a word about how the game was going to engage the PCs aside from providing information for us to uncover. I've been digging for over a year. If this is just going to continue as it has, then I will say my goodbye with a heartfelt thanks.

Given you've read the website you know what's coming. I am not going to reveal the plot to everyone else in advance of it happening even if you know what I might have planned.
You know what the premise of the campaign is. I/"The Council" have said repeatedly that until you can shadow walk you can't really do much, which is fundamentally true of any Amber game. As characters you have gone from knowing nothing to be able to manifest the Pattern in 16 days. The fact its taken the best part of 2 years to get here I can't retrospectively do anything about. I try to move things on as fast as I can, and then get shot down for fast forwarding through things that are not part of the story to try and get to the more interesting stuff. Heads you win, tails I lose.

The perennial problem for any GM is having to 'invent' NPCs on the fly because the players did something that they hadn't planned for as part of the story. If it happens to be an inn that the party happen to come across in the middle of no where that they will never return to then it isn't an issue. If it happens to be a ball where all of those present are potentially likely to be encountered again then that gets far more difficult, especially when you want a romantic liaison. Heads you win, tails I lose.

Seems I can't win no matter what I try and do.

I think I've already said that it's not the plot that's been lacking. It's the day to day. You say it doesn't matter, but I disagree. If having a rich cast of NPCs is not something you want to do, that's fine. It has to be fun for you too. I'm not attacking you for it. I'm just saying it's important to me to have some people in my character's life that make her feel special and wanted (and not necessarily romantic, though I do like that), even if it's only for a time. If you don't want to do that, I understand. I'm not trying to win. I'm trying to have fun. That's all.

I'll ask another question then, if a plethora of 'interesting' NPCs to interact with is important to you, why haven't you engaged with any of the PAs? They've been there in the background, since day 1. And I do have 'other' NPCs about.. just *not* in the Mansion..there may actually be some in the grounds, where some of the others are, I think I've hinted at that already.

Fair question. I mean, there have been moments where I was in a mood and thought about it. But that's really not the same thing is it. They're obligated to serve, be a conversation or have sex. That's not the same thing as having someone interested in me. Coming to me to talk and appreciate who I am. Believe it or not, girls like that. We don't want to be chasing, we like to be approached.

I can appreatiate a number of things, however..
Your in a place that, in effect, is in the middle of nowhere..
No one other than those in that place know you're there..
You are Royalty.. Lords of the Manor..
The Ball, at least the Carnelian one, changes some things.. you're now a named face but nobody knows you. The only people that are likely to come looking are those that think you can do something for them..
You've been there 16 days. If you have a new staff member join at work how much interaction with them are you likely to have had if you're not directly working with them. Unless they have reason to they genreally won't come talk to you.. it doesn't stop you going and talking to them to introduce yourself.
The PAs are people to, as are the household staff, no matter what their jobs are. There is nothing to stop you engaging them as people.

So, it's lonely at the top? LOL

Is this where I bring up that the one person I did try to engage at the pool party, who not only didn't engage back, but the entire event was dashed through right after with a summary ending. And this was after the event was described in detail to the point of giving names to characters. Edward was there and they talked to him just fine.

Please understand that from my point of view, this is what I have to look forward to: I have to continue to drown in information that it's on me to understand what's important and remember every detail. I have to mine conversations for clues to questions I haven't asked yet. In between there is the slower than real time cycle of study and meals, and I have to go out of my way to find my own social engagement or else be isolated and alone. And if anyone does come to talk to me it will be because of what I can do for them politically without so much as a credible compliment. Even those two merchants I danced with didn't actually ask for anything. I had to ask them who they were and what they did and then they just dumped more information on me without any request to go along with it as if I knew what to do about it.

Yes, this overarching plot is interesting, and some of these NPCs are interesting characters, but for me, that's not enough motivation. I'm expected to engage, but I also what to be engaged back. There have been opportunities to do so but I got nothing from them was more information. I'm telling you that I'm dissatisfied, and all you're telling me is that it's realistic for the situation. Not only do I disagree, but I'll point out that I'm not really living in this world. I have my own dreary monotonous and somewhat isolated life. I game to experience more than that. Unfortunately, I'm not getting what I need from this one, and you're telling me that I shouldn't expect it.

Again. It's your game. You can run it any way you want to. You care about all this magnificent plot and setting you've created. You filled it with characters that you find interesting and exciting. I thought I could be a part of it, but it's been over a year and still feel like the world doesn't care if I'm there or not. It may be realistic for this world but it's not fun for me.

So, again, without some hope of a change, I would bid you all a fond farewell.

I seem to recall I gave you cartblanche to write what ever outcome you wished for Rhainnon at the pool party because I had nothing planned.
I named eveyone in the hottub, because otherwise Edward couldn't have introduced them.
With Edward being an NPC, and the pool party being very much what he was used to, given his multi-millionaire parents, I didn't have to write anything for him. He was going to pick up a couple of the girls. End of anything I needed to decide for him.
Re-reading the thread two of the others in the hottub I'd decided were already paired or pairing off. Beyond that I think I'd decided that one of the other guys was chasing one of the other girls who wasn't interested in him, because she was also angling after the guy who'd paired off with the other girl.
I had no need to write anything for any of them. They were all just set dressing to convey an atmosphere.

Things will implictly change once you're no longer confined, for what ever reason real or otherwise to the Mansion. Whether that will provide you with what you seek I can't answer, but people may just be looking to kill you rather than talk to you.

I don't want to write my own outcomes. That's writing. Not gaming. I want to game. And again, all that explanation still left me in the same place.



Well... at least they'll be interested.

So You give it a bit more time Rhia?

Yeah. I suppose I will for a bit.

Cathal as you're in the driving seat so to speak, where are you planning on going next and how?

There is no Sat nav in Carnelian on account there are no Satellites. There are no maps either but that's a moot point.
Additionally the Auto-Drive feature of the car doesn't work outside of the 2Km city grid.

Stopping by shop buying  a plain old paper map hoping Rhia knows how to read it. No offence Rhia.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:29, Thu 01 Feb.

As above there are no maps digital or otherwise.. nobody needs one.. but make the post about stopping by one of the shops (general store may be? or the fuel station?) to buy a map, not finding any, then having to ask..

:) where are we in dark ages. No paper maps. I'm really shocked.

Do I not already have a Mizzurian ID?

No. You have to explicitly go collect them from the Main Mizzurian Office and you technically only need them if you go certain places, one of which is the Mizzurain office, and another being the Council office, which is why you were given a Visitors Badge when you went there.

Cathal had his because he went into town on Day 2 and having parked in the carpark, couldn't get back through the gate because he didn't have a Mizzurian Staff ID card. He was therefore forced to go around to Main reception and ask, where upon somebody from the Security office came out and gave him his ID.

There is one other thing to note about your ID's and lanyards in comparison to those warn by other staff. Your badges have a slightly different Pattern on them to other badges and your lanyards are purple with gold lettering which reads "Mizzurian". The standard employee lanyards are red with white lettering which reads "STAFF".

Have Cathal and Rhiannon finished their discussion of the days events? If so we can move to 'dinner'...

Dinner is okay for me.

So, if Rhiannon being ignored was really because of RPOL failing to notify that there responses were concurrent, the why didn't you give a me chance to correct the post and get everything back on track?