Am I wrong in assuming that I started with 3 confidence points and a confidence score of 1?

In reply to Affare Acisculu (msg # 358):

Yup, confidence score of 1 and 3 points is correct.

First, Thanks Emrys for being willing to talk about this out front.  I know we have some new players, and I do want them to see where the spell casting rules can get tricky in this game.



I think if you create "a" fog, that takes care of creating something to obscure visibility.  I don't see the need to add an Ignem req in that case, as fog by it's nature obscures vision.  If you wanted it to have the effect of, say, stinging the eyes, then yeah.  I could see an Ig req.

The question I have in this case is how much fog you create and how thick it is.

In looking at the existing spells for guidance, Air's Ghostly Form creates fog starting from the magi and spreading outwards a few paces at a level 5 spell.  It's a base 2, bumped up 3 for the duration, a touch range, and something about being indoors.  Stench of the 20 Corpses is kind of similair to what you're going for in my mind.  You're trying to create an area effect that hampers the target at a voice range.  It also bakes in a diameter duration to bring it to level 10.

I would say to create a fog cloud of sufficient density to hamper vision is a level 3.  If you leave it at 2, it would hinder vision.  But it wouldn't be as thick.  To put it this way:  if you leave it as a base level 2, I think you'd impede someone's vision -1 at most.  If you go to level 3, I would give it a -3.

I'm not going to quibble on the target.  I'll rule that the fog will spread provided it lasts long enough.  Which brings up duration.

Duration.  I always get kind of iffy about how long something lasts in a Creo spell if you leave the spell at a momentary duration.  In this case, I think the fog would dissapate almost immediately.  I think to make it effective, you'd need to bump the duration up to concentration.

Lastly, range.  I think you could either have yourself as the center of the effect (just like in Air's Ghostly Form), or you bump the range up to voice.  You might be able to make Eye range work, but that's going to involve one of the ambushing party turning, making eye contact with you, and serving as the center point of the spell.  Given a distance and the time of day, making eye contact might be tricky.  I'd call for them to make a Per/Awareness roll to make the eye contact with you, depending on how far ahead of you they get.

You can bump the range to Voice.  But that requires you speaking.  Which means the people you are trying to ambush will you hear you probably.

One thing you can do maybe is use a Conc Duration and Touch range.  Touch one of the ambushing party as they leave, and let them spread the fog as they go.  Basically you'd make someone else the target of an Air's Ghostly Form spell.  I suppose you could also do that on a rock or something, and throw it in their direction.

So that's a long way of saying:

-How much of a penalty on the target's sight PER are you shooting for? -1 or -3?
-How do you want the fog delivered?  Just appear in an area?  Or have it emanate from something/someone and have them move towards the target?
-Are you willing to put the duration at concentration?

Let me know and I can give you a final ruling on the spell level you're aiming for.

Those of you who are experienced with AM, feel free to point out if you think I have gotten something wrong.

Those of you new to the game, yeah.  Adjucating spontaneous spells can be that technical.

Thanks.

Affare:  What Emrys said.  Magi and Companions start with 3 Confidence Points and a Confidence Score of 1.  You can only spend a number of points on a single roll up to your Confidence Score.

In your case, you have 4 Confidence Points now.  You can spend 1 of those points on a roll.  If you bump your Confidence Score up to 2, you could spend up to 2 points on a single roll.

I can't recall.  Do Grogs get confidence in this version of AM?  I thought they did but only start with a single point.  Anyone recall?

Grogs get no confidence (page 19 1st paragraph but I'm sure I read that explicitly somewhere).  But if you look in the grog templates they do not have a confidence score line listed so I'm sure they don't get confidence in this edition at least.  Interestingly they can take minor virtues so I think it's possible they could take Self-Confident for a Confidence score of 2/5?;-).

Just never thought of that;-)  Anyway they are minor disposable characters but I think we have a fun little bunch to start off with that compliment each other well.  Please don't try to get them killed;-).  After we get a turb of grogs established...then demolition derby won't hurt so much;-)  But Emrys isn't a 'They killed Kenny!... Well anyway..." type of magus;-)

Never ran or played AM before this game but I've run Mage: the Ascension for a few years (that campaign is still a fav for the players I ran it for;-) and there a little bit for new players to get used to for this type of system so no problem about 'showing the work'.  Precedence of what other spells can do is a biggie.

A brief aside, my impression of a new magus going generalist overall a no-no as it isn't too hard to get low scores in other Forms and Techniques after a season or two.  I didn't totally gimp Emrys in that regard as I did take one Form to a little midline starting score, but Emrys isn't going to be tearing down the walls of reality anytime soon;-).  That said while AM has been on my gaming shelf through multiple editions for decades, I'm new to this game too but I still might be able to help if you have a question or two.

Anyway, I pretty much have to keep the level to 5 for Emrys to reliably pop off a fatiguing spontaneous spell as a general rule.

Stench of the 20 Corpses is a base three spell (+2 Voice, +1 Diameter) but it can incapacities on a botch or a -3 to all rolls on a failed target 6 stamina roll.  I'm looking for a modifier vs vision (darkness) but hopefully one that doesn't hurt our side (Ignem is both fire and light hence the requirement in my mind....darkening moonlight is level 1).  Mist or haze would be level 1 so 2 less than Stench (Base 1 +2 voice +1 diameter= level 4).

On target categories it also says under Aurum that-

Some target categories for Auram require
some clarification. If the normal descriptions
apply, they can, of course, be used.

So like Stench of the 20 Corpses is vaguely a normal target description but something like....Clouds of Rain and Thunder (level 25 base 3, +3 sight, +1 concentration, +2 group) uses the auram guideline for group which is several phenomenon...in this case several thunderheads gather within seconds at the range of sight.

Air's Ghostly Form (Base 2, +1 Touch, +1 diameter, +1 unnatural because the spell can be used indoors) totally blocks sight from the restriction and Emrys isn't look for it to go indoors (unnatural +1).  But it looks like base 2 totally blocks LOS for fog.  Emrys isn't looking for a totally block sight spell (since that would negate eyes of the cat;-).  Looking at the book there are no rules for blindfighting I can see though...checking forum...-2 for partial darkness looks like the consensus.

Diminishing the available light by 1 candlelight's worth I'd say be the -1 as you put out.

However the 'fog surrounding Emrys' going with a light fog (base 1), centered on Emrys (Target Individual +0) Range of sight (touch under Air's ghostly form is because the fog doesn't roll out more than the touch range of the caster, so probably want more of a sight range so +3) and duration of concentration (+1) would be a magnitude 5 spell and locking it down with (repeated) Maintaining the Demanding Spell I guess would do what I want.  Though worried it might spook our watcher to see a sudden fog roll over the ground towards them.  But on the other hand I think Wulfgang could see through the fog as we move forward.

Will go with the latter if that's what works for you.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:01, Tue 09 Apr.

I'll take that.  Go ahead and make your roll for the fog spont spell.

For the Eyes of the Cat, how many people are you going to try to effect?

Hovard will want to send out 4 of his men.  You can add on whoever you wish.  Just need to know how many of them you are going to try to effect with Eyes of the Cat.

Thanks.

Calliope, Alfred, or Affare...one of you want to post about the person digging out from under a building?;-)

8 total- Emrys, Wulfgang, Leonard, Evren and the 4 soldiers

Yeah for the ambush thing...Calliope is staying back in Lais while that goes down, lol. She knows she will probably need to go with once Emrys is better prepped for venturing into the woods, but for this "ambush the ambushers" thing she's staying out of it.

No worries.  You can deal with the person digging out from under the house if you like.  Doesn't have Evil Dead vibes.  Nope not at all;-)

I was totally thinking the same thing. But she isn't sensing anything from her premonitions thank goodness.

If you want to take over one of the Grogs Emrys is dragging along with him Calliope, you may.

In the meantime...

I'll think about it. But for now, I'm gathering my wits so will remain on Calliope in town.

I have a question...something that I just thought of. But Affare is a non-mage Redcap, right? Does that mean he can use the Parma ritual, or is that something only a true Mage can use? Because if he can use it, that would mean he is another person in the group aside from Emrys who isn't affected by her curse!
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 07:29, Sat 13 Apr.

Nope, need the gift to learn it.  Technically any gifted person could learn Parma Magica.  Knowing it and not being a member of the Order is a death sentence (and for whomever taught them).  They might get the 'join or die' spiel first but they'd really mean it;-).

A magus with a higher level Parma Magica could extend the protection to others but Emrys is fresh out of gauntlet so...

Heh...theoretically someone with the Supernatural ability Font of Knowledge I think could temporarily get Parma Magica...and do the ritual in the morning.  Wow...just realized that (I think it would work).  There's a dragon out there that might have magical might and a magical shield...yikes.

Edit- Nope... it's an ability for members of the Order of Hermes, but supernatural ability for everyone else.  Still House Ex Miscellanea does have a few very non-hermetic members.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:44, Sat 13 Apr.

I totally am fine with Parma being one of the unique things about the order of Hermes. I just wasn't sure about Affare is all.

He probably is very familiar with the effects of the gift though from his training, and forces himself to be laid back like he is as a sort of adaption is my guess. Like the dude is probably secretly serious and not a jokster at all and made himself one as a sort of anti-gift self-focusing training lol. :)

Calliope is a bit different. The narrative reason I use as a player, to back up the OOC reason that I the player control Calliope's reactions to people, is that her magical air aura is a bit different than "normal" and pushes out other auras, and in combination with her absurd second sight/perception abilities makes her instantly aware of the auras of others and able to "see past" them, and thus she ends up unaffected behaviorally. This fits into the theme that she has an extremely potent core of power, although one quite different from the Gift (and mutually exclusive to it, at that!).

Now I don't expect other NPCs with Gift/air based auras to be the same, as that takes away some of the specialness of Parma. This is fiction narrative that's just for my Calliope, and is a feature that is supposed to also make her even more interesting to Emrys and Affare. As if she isn't an oddball enough already! :)

Oh it's totally possible someone could have Parma outside the Order.  It might dominate the character's story arc tho...definitely a Dark Secret flaw at least but Parma could technically be bought as a supernatural virtue if you talked the SG into it;-).  Though theoretically a redcap like Affare could have it if they had the right virtues and not have the Order give them the stinkeye...heh.  IIRC theoretically Calliope could learn it but her other supernatural talent scores probably put it out of reach.

As far as the effect of Calliope's aura on Emrys, parma shields him from it so he doesn't get the innate -3 to reaction that 'something ain't right' vibe that everyone else does.  It's why the OoH actually functions without killing each other;-)  Granted he may think she's a little odd (or a lot...a woman on the road alone is on the far end of out of the ordinary, Roman olive merchant or not;-).

What Emrys said about Parma being a Hermetic only thing.  Non-Hermetics who have the ability end up with target signs on their back.

You can technically get used to the Gift over time.  But it's on a case by case basis.  Basically, grogs at a covenant get used to their magi.  Any other magi who come to visit are viewed as suspicious, etc.

Affare, like any non-Gifted Redcap, would be trained to shelve any negative reactions he has towards magi.  He can suffer the effects.  But he can rationalize it in his head because he's "in the know" as part of the Redcap training.

There is a virtue which allows someone to be immune to the Gift's effects.  Can't recall what it's called at the moment.

LOL you guys.

Yes, Calliope is odd even without auras and such. :P

And yes it was my understanding that the Parma ritual was a dark secret that must stay within the Order...or else! I was just curious if an Redcap could ever use it or not, or if it was for magic users only.

Gosh can you imagine the CATASTROPHE for the Order if someone the Parma got leaked to the Church, and they taught every single Tom, Dick, and Harry how to do it (like do Parma with your morning prayers now!) and then suddenly the whole world gets a lot harder for mages in terms of their untouchable status. But on the flip side, everyone will get along with them since no -3 penalty anymore lol. :P

But put Parma onto like inquisitors or witch hunters and watch the heads roll.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:28, Mon 15 Apr.

Well technically they'd still have to have some spark of the Gift at least (for the supernatural virtue) or an unopened gift (you can learn any supernatural power if you have the Gift but the more you know the harder it is to learn a new one).

Theoretically it's possible Affare might have a latent magical ability virtue or somehow couldn't have his gift opened (like a failed apprentice flaw) but still able to learn parma as a supernatural virtue.  But normal lay folk are unable to learn it.  Other gifted folks like witches or rune casters learning it would be a problem for the Order of Hermes as then they could more reliably organize themselves instead of infighting (due to the Gift social handicap).

The Church can be plenty dangerous to the Order of Hermes as divine auras and faith generally trumps magic, least as far as protection from magic goes and making spellcasting harder.  A magus pissing off the Church is also a good way to attract a Wizard's March on the troublemaker from the Order of Hermes as well because they don't want that sort of attention and trouble either.  There's always that one player however that thinks that Faust was onto something and going infernalist is a fast way to power.

Yeah...Calliope has absolutely zero interest in infernalism or anything. Even if a devil or something said that they could help remove her curse or something it's not something that she would even consider accepting. Her one dot of infernal lore simply is representative of all of her various research that she's done about various types of curses to try to better understand her own situation. I think the recent events in game are pretty good reason why going infernal is a really bad idea.

Well Ars Magica is a troupe style game and sometimes those types of stories make interesting chronicles.  A lot of the folks with Lion Rampart (who initially wrote Ars Magica) worked with White Wolf for a long time and their ideas formed the core of the World of Darkness (which didn't shy away from inner party conflict).

That said ultimately I feel it's very self-destructive for the Faustian character in question.  Even if you 'win' you lose.  Admittedly for my weekly table top game I have to be very careful when I introduce a 'big red button' into my game because I have two players that...well they're smart players generally but... yeah they'll push the button if they think they might get something out of it.  I mean not to 'Head of Vecna' level of stupidity but it is sort of nice when I want to introduce an 'end of the world' story arc that the PCs have to fix because it's entirely their fault that the god-like genie got released from that menacing giant bottle with the lead seal of Solomon on it that was well hidden & protected.

Though for Ars Magica the funniest infernalist/diabolist story I've heard was a covenant needed a magus that could heal injuries and the troupe had a player that made a Corpus specialist that dropped out (and the SG played it out).  Turns out the magus was a diabolist who worked largely behind the scenes that despite hints the players never suspected.  And I guess a big selling point was that the npc magus was super helpful in running the covenant (volunteering to run it's affairs an extra season or two a year) and could heal them via scrying after all the other magi provided him with arcane connections to their magi.  Naturally when they did discover the truth, the shit hit the fan because of those arcane connections allow more than just healing to get through their Parma Magica;-).

LOL! That's a great setup of a nice infernalist gone bad sort of story!

Sorry guys.  Thought I had responded on this game yesterday.  I will respond in a mo.

Thanks.