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14:39, 7th May 2024 (GMT+0)

Game Discussion/OOC.

Posted by The Founder's GhostFor group 0
Emrys
player, 16 posts
Tue 21 Feb 2023
at 08:27
  • msg #41

Welcome P3

Heh...Shapeshifting as a supernatural ability might be an interesting ability for a Mercere as well...like a bird to start with (Crow or Raven?).  And maybe a magic bag to go with it?

Would make traveling a snap and also have tons of other uses down the road.
P3
player, 1 post
Tue 21 Feb 2023
at 16:17
  • msg #42

Welcome P3

Hello P3.  (Sorry.)
Frederich
player, 10 posts
Wed 22 Feb 2023
at 02:27
  • msg #43

Welcome P3

In reply to P3 (msg # 42):

lolz  welcome!  this should be a lot of fun.  AM is a very different kinda game.  But at it's core, it's the medieval paradigm that defines it.  Wrap your head around that and the rest is easy.
Frederich
player, 11 posts
Wed 22 Feb 2023
at 03:07
  • msg #44

Game Discussion

In reply to The Founder's Ghost (msg # 38):

Ok!  I got the AM4 pdf.  Quick question before I mock up a Trem - do I have my sigil or no?  If yes, what's a level of cert that makes you happy?
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 17 posts
Boo
Wed 22 Feb 2023
at 03:56
  • msg #45

Game Discussion

To You All.

Found a good looking resource:

https://thealexandrian.net/wor...n-system-cheat-sheet

Click the "Click for PDF".  Someone finally came up with a cheat sheet for AM5.  May the angels watch over them.

Highly recommend downloading it.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 18 posts
Boo
Wed 22 Feb 2023
at 04:01
  • msg #46

Game Discussion

Frederich,

One of the things that changed between 4ed and 5ed is Certamen.

First, there is no longer a Certamen skill.

If you look at that cheat sheet link I sent you I think the formulae for Certamen is on page 8.

Simply put, due to your Tremere Minor Magical Focus (Certamen), when you are in Ceramen, you will double the lower of the Form or Technique being used in the contest.  So if it's a CrIg contest, and your Creo is 8 and your Ig is 5, your Form/Technique total would be 18 (8+5+5).

If it helps, we can roleplay out a certamen using some fake scores on another thread.  That might give you a chance to get the formulae and new process down before we use it in game.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 19 posts
Boo
Thu 23 Feb 2023
at 01:06
  • msg #47

Game Discussion

In reply to The Founder's Ghost (msg # 46):

Okay.  P3.  Let's hear what kind of companion you'd be interested in.  I was suggesting a Redcap because I feel it's a good starting point.  But that's just a suggestion.  Other possibilities are

A Knight
A Merchant
An Itinerant Friar
Bored Young Noble


Frederich, you need anything from me thus far?

Thanks Folks.
Frederich
player, 12 posts
Thu 23 Feb 2023
at 02:23
  • msg #48

Game Discussion

In reply to The Founder's Ghost (msg # 47):

I'm good - I should have you all three tomorrow.  I will need some help in adapting it, and a concept-check on the virtues/flaws.  I tend to be very conservative, and that's not always the right choices.   Anyway, I still think a machivellian tremere, probably more in the intellego focus.  I still like gentle gift, but we'll see about the cost.
Emrys
player, 17 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 01:29
  • msg #49

Game Discussion

In reply to Frederich (msg # 48):

Any idea what you're doing with Fridrich's arts and spells yet?  Primarily asking if you are going to take Aegis of the Hearth or what form you are primarily looking to focus on.
Frederich
player, 13 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 02:51
  • msg #50

Game Discussion

Ok, so I have a skeleton Magi, but I'm going to need a hand squishing it into AM5.

I love the characterization of House Tremere as the house where everyone's toned and has perfect hair, so I'm going to run with that.

Friderich Wasserman, aka Nicolas of Tremere, from large family of Magdeburg (which tragically burned very badly in 1188, as written 'burnt down', ooof.  Highly likely that several of his family members perished.

Regardless, Friderich, at that point his gauntlet passed, returned and reconnected with his family, such that remained, and was able to help some get resettled and rebuilt. (and bringing the flaw Close Family into play.)

He continued to stay at the covenant (Either working off some additional debt to Margilt, his Parens, or something similar with the House or with the Seekers (Though which at this point is not decided).

But now, with his friend Emrys recently passed, and the attachement (for whatever reason/s/) to this dashing redcap aka P3, the time has come to venture forth!

I see Friderich with some broad stats - +2 in Int, +1's in Perception, Stamina, Presence & Communication.  And then for virtues, Gentle Gift is the centerpiece, with Luck, Inspirational, and Minor Magical Focus in Certamen to balance.  Flaws sees Ambitious (and maybe also self-confident?), Close Family. Incompatible Arts (CrAn, and maybe another XXAn)                   Mentor (Is this a virtue or flaw?), Offensive to Animals (the just don't like me version) and Susceptible to Divine.

I confess to being a lil confused on skills as well, but I'd like Friderich to have a little skill with Disputato, Sword (or Mace?), Dagger, Swim, Boating, and legend lore, and some skills with Ettiquite and Leadership.  I'd like improved skills with Finesse, Intrigue, Parma, Bargain and Guile.  I expect that the standard skills (if they are in AM5) in Magic Theory, Org Lore House of Hermes, Scribe & Speak Latin, and Speak German.

In part because of his own path, but also heavily influenced by his parens, he is very strong with two Techniques, Intelligo 11, and Rego 10.  Creo, Muto, and Perdo is only a 1. For Forms, Animal alone is zero.  The elemnts are generally very weak - Ignem, Aquam, Auram, and Herbam (and Imaginem) are all a 1.  Terram alone is a 3, as is Corpus and Mentam.  Vim is a 2.

I think we can leave spells and gear for later. but I think we see - or I do, anyway - a better picture of the Magi Nicolas.  I'll send the things I have in the format via separate message.
Emrys
player, 18 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:11
  • msg #51

Game Discussion

Thanks;-)  Even if's two years or so til we settle down with a covenant site I don't want to go trading for Aegis of the Hearth so I'll pick that up.

I'm thinking an Aegis of 25 to start but no lower than 20.

So he'll have a higher score in Vim (and Rego).

As a side note Fengheld's local spoken language is High German (and I think it's in the Saxony region).

<cut & paste>

Germanic Languages
• Germanic: Bavarian German, Dutch, English (Old English, Anglo-Saxon), Frisian,
High German, Low German, Yiddish
• West Scandinavian: Faeroese, Icelandic, Norwegian
• East Scandinavian: Danish, Gotlandish, Scanian, Swedish
[N.B. The various Scandinavians languages became distinct starting in the 12th century. Old
Norse is still the language used for the Icelandic sagas. You may consider the Scandinavian
languages presented to all be dialects of Norse.

Dutch includes Flemish dialects in Belgium. I do not know how widespread Yiddish might be
in Mythic Europe given how Jews are treated by society at large, but it is probably prevalent in mostly Jewish villages. High German dialects include Franconian, Swabian, Swiss, and Rhenish.  Old English (Anglo-Saxon) and Frisian are still very closely related. English has probably begun to absorb some elements of French in the 150 years since the Norman invasion, but this French influence is most prevalent in the southeast. Also, most English nobles at this time speak French in court. Major English dialects include Mercian, Middle English, and Northumbrian. ]
P3
player, 2 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:13
  • msg #52

Game Discussion

Are all of the redcaps messengers, or do certain individuals play other specialized roles?
Emrys
player, 19 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:32
  • msg #53

Game Discussion

From Guardians of the Forest-

LANGUAGES IN GERMANY
The following Living Languages are spoken in Germany and bordering lands.  Each consists of several distinct regional dialects, which are given in parentheses; most characters should take the appropriate one as a specialty. For West Norse and French, only the dialects commonly encountered in Germany have been listed.  Educated or well-traveled speakers will
have tried hard to rid themselves of their dialect, and may have standard specialties (see Ars Magica 5th Edition, page 66).

High German (Swabian, Franconian, Bavarian, Swiss, Yiddish)
Low German (Saxon, Pomeranian, Friesian, Flemish)
West Slavonic (Sorbian, Polish, Czech, Slovak)
West Norse (Danish)
French (Norman)

High German is spoken by the largest number of people, in the central and southern areas of Germany. Yiddish, a hybrid of High German and Hebrew, is the mother tongue of German Jews, who mostly live in city enclaves. Low German is spoken in the northern lowlands of Ger- many, and the Saxon dialect is becoming the lingua franca for Baltic trade. Norman French (a dialect of the northern French language referred to as Langue d’oil) is spoken in the western parts of Lower and Upper Lorraine. Sorbian (Wendish) is the language of the Sorbs (Wends), and is spoken in Lusatia and Rügen, and partly in Brandenburg and Pomerania. Czech is spoken in Bohemia and Moravia. However German migration into the Eastern Marches means that either High or Low German is likely to be understood to some extent by the middle and upper classes.

These languages are inter-related to some extent, and the speaker of one language may find the speaker of another language intelligible. The following modifiers apply to the base language (ignore dialect specialties, if applicable):

Same language, different dialects: –1 penalty to both speakers

High German vs Low German: –2 penalty to both speakers

High German (Yiddish only) vs Hebrew: –2 penalty to both speakers

Low German vs West Norse: –3 penalty (only –2 if Saxon dialect) to both speakers

Low German vs English: –3 penalty (only –2 if Friesian dialect) to both speakers

High German vs West Norse or English: –4 penalty to both speakers

Exempli gratia: A character with High German 5 (Bavarian) speaks to fellow Bavarians with
an effective score of 6, High German speakers with no dialect with an effective score of 5, Franconians with an effective score of 4, all Low German speakers with a effective score of 3, and can even communicate basic concepts to Englishmen (effective score 1).

DEAD LANGUAGES
East German (Gothic, Vandalic, Burgundic)
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 20 posts
Boo
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:35
  • msg #54

Game Discussion

Redcaps do come in more than one flavor yes.  The typical redcap (unGifted member of House Mercere) serve as messengers.  But the House also performs other functions for the Order.

If you want to invest the dollars, you can pick up Houses of Hermes True Lineages.  Mercere is one of the houses covered in that one.  But I can give you the short course here.

The Redcaps fall generally into four buckets:

Messengers and Heralds              Kind of the default model
                                    Primary role is to insure communication
                                    between covenants within a Tribunal

                                    Usually travel solo.
                                    Usually trained to protect themselves, in
                                    stealth, and survival skills.

Merchants and Bankers               The Redcaps run a bank for the Order
                                    that focuses on Vis rather than money.  This vis
                                    exchange is sort of their primary financial
                                    service for the order.  But they also hold
                                    a wide range of mercantile interests.

                                    For example, there is a trading company that runs
                                    along the length of the Rhine River that is in
                                    fact owned by House Mercere.  They use it as a
                                    front for moving across Eurpoe. But they also
                                    do a lot of legitimate merchant business as well

                                    One of the other houses, Verditius, specializes in
                                    magic items. Because of the rules of the Order
                                    they can't sell magic items directly to mundanes.
                                    So they go through brokers.  House Mercere is heavy
                                    involved in this as well.

Mercenaries and Soldiers            Pretty much what it says.  The muscle of House Mercere
                                    Usually paid to escort other Redcaps but can be hired
                                    by any magi

Minstrels and Wanderers             This is a catch all bucket.

                                    Some messenger redcaps aren't real enthused about
                                    about their day job and so like to wander.

                                    Others wander intentionally, more or less acting as
                                    spies and gathering intel on the mundane world
                                    for the Order.

                                    I once played a Redcap who's primary goal was
                                    to find Covenant sites.  He was very sensitive to
                                    magic and wandered Europe just looking for magical
                                    areas.

                                    I played another one who ran a band of smugglers. His
                                    real goal was to control the underworld of a certain
                                    region and make it safe for Redcaps to travel through
                                    as well as supply a source of income for his local
                                    covenant.

So usually Redcaps are messengers.  But there's other aspects we can look into if you'd rather.
Emrys
player, 20 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:46
  • msg #55

Re: Game Discussion

P3:
Are all of the redcaps messengers, or do certain individuals play other specialized roles?


Annnnd cut & pasted from Houses of Hermes- True Lineages...

Redcaps
After the death of Mercere, the House suffered a period of great decline. While the Founder lived, his unGifted followers were respected by association, but without his influence they soon came to be regarded as a plebeian class within the Order. For decades they remained a small and insular House, before they began to take on many of the administrative duties that are now associated with the term “Redcap.” They performed these duties so well, in fact, that the other Houses came to depend upon them. In particular, a Redcap named Belin became famous for always getting her messages through even the most dangerous of wars and weather, and it was because she wore a loose red cap like Mercere’s that those without the Gift came to be favorably associated with the title.

As magi relied more on Redcaps, so the Redcaps relied more upon magi, and many began to join other covenants, leaving the Mercere-only houses in which they had always gathered. They maintained strong ties to their House, usually spending about half of the year serving the Order and carrying messages, but the rest of the time they were devoted to their covenants, and greatly contributed to their growth. Many magi benefited from this association, and a lot of them came to think of the Redcaps as their sodales, rather than as lesser citizens in their magical community, some even going so far as to consider themselves their patrons and protectors.

By the time of the Schism War, House Mercere had become so integral to the smooth running of the Order that it was able to influence the outcome of the conflict in very small ways. Some Redcaps learned that by controlling the flow of information — taking a long time to deliver unfavorable news, or conveniently losing some messages while expediting others — they were able to help those whose causes they favored, and hinder those whom they did not wish to succeed. In this way, the Merceres believe that they were able to prevent many atrocities from occurring, and brought about peace much more quickly than it otherwise would have come to pass.

In 1220, House Mercere is probably too disorganized to unite like that again, though groups of them certainly have great influence, and one or two Redcaps working together can disrupt enough communication to be a major hindrance to their enemies. However, Redcaps don’t generally get involved in politics, and prefer if anything to use their positions to maintain the status quo. Many Redcaps have developed a peculiar independence, though they still serve the Order, and are notoriously indifferent to any personal causes but their own.

Thus, Redcaps are something of an anomaly in the Order of Hermes. They are not really part of Mercere’s lineage, in that not all of them are descended from the Founder. Some of them are, however, so they cannot be said to belong to a completely independent society, either. Redcaps may not have the Gift, but they do have full rights and privileges, and while they do not usually vote at Tribunal out of respect for true magi, they have sigils and could participate in a vote in dire need. In effect the Redcaps are like Hermetic companions: their role in the Order is to support magi, and help them perform the tasks that The Gift makes difficult.

To fulfill this mission, Redcaps take on many different duties, described below. Most of these duties do not exclusively belong to Redcaps, not in the same way that, say, Quaesitorial duties belong to official Quaesitors. Redcaps just tend to be the ones who do these things that other magi would think beneath them, to justify their membership in a magical Order. Since Redcaps visit almost every covenant, and any covenant might have a resident Redcap, the ideas that follow can also easily be adapted into story hooks for any saga.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:46, Fri 24 Feb 2023.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 21 posts
Boo
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:48
  • msg #56

Re: Game Discussion

You are Mr. Cut and Paste today, ain'tcha Emrys?

Thanks
Emrys
player, 21 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 03:51
  • msg #57

Re: Game Discussion

In reply to Emrys (msg # 55):

If you are interested in a particular 'bucket' I can cut and paste that particular bit of text.;-)
This message was lightly edited by the player at 03:52, Fri 24 Feb 2023.
Emrys
player, 22 posts
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 10:45
  • msg #58

Game Discussion

In reply to Frederich (msg # 50):

Mentor is a Minor Story Flaw.  You are generally limited to 1 story flaw and two personality flaws (no more than one Major Personality flaw).  You may not take more than one Major Hermetic Virtue (for you that's the Gentle Gift;-).  Up to ten flaws total and no more than 5 minor flaws.

Not sure what's changed from 4th edition.

If you are short on xp, skilled parens is a minor hermetic virtue that will add an additional 60 xp and 30 spell levels during apprenticeship.  It pairs well with Mentor but winning your voting sigil may be a bugger;-)

Additionally I already cut & pasted (Gild) Trained in this thread (msg #31).  We're starting in the Rhine tribunal so it's an option for another 30 xp (Order of Hermes Lore, Intrigue, and Durenmar Lore (or, rarely, the Lore of another covenant where you were trained by your gild)) and a further 60 xp that may be spent on any General or Arcane abilities , arts and spells appropriate to your gild.

I pretty much have Emrys done.  Below is what I'm planning.  The Aegis of the Heath I can manage is 20 to start.

If your rego isn't set in stone would you consider moving it over to Creo?  The healing rituals start at CrCo 20 and Emrys is a waster of vis (we only have to cast Aegis once a year but healing can be multiple times even in a season;-).


Magical Arts
Creo 4
Intellego 4
Muto 4
Perdo 4
Rego 6

Animal 1
Aquam 1
Auram 1
Corpus 2
Herbam 1
Ignem 1
Imaginem 2
Mentem 1
Terram 1
Vim 6

Aegis of the Hearth 20 (ReVi) ArM5 161
Maintaining the Demanding Spell 20 (ReVi) ArM5 162
Gather Essence of the Beast 15 (ReVi) ArM5 162
Scales of the Magical Weight 5 (InVi) ArM5 158
Sense the Nature of Vis 5 (InVi) ArM5 158

Wizard's Sidestep 10 (ReIm) ArM 147
The Unseen Porter 10 (ReTe) ArM 156
Bind Wound 10 (CrCo) ArM 129
Rise of the Feathery Body 10 (ReCo) ArM 134
Piercing Shaft of Wood 10 (MuHe) ArM 137
Pass the Unyielding Portal 5 (MuHe) ArM 137
This message was last edited by the player at 10:55, Fri 24 Feb 2023.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 22 posts
Boo
Fri 24 Feb 2023
at 18:58
  • msg #59

Game Discussion

I'll take a look at the character drafts I've gotten tonight/tomorrow.
P3
player, 3 posts
Sat 25 Feb 2023
at 13:33
  • msg #60

Game Discussion

Now that I think of it, I probably don’t need to worry about making my character unique.  This is all so complex and new to me that playing a ‘generic’ redcap should be fine.

I’ll pick up that book later today.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 23 posts
Boo
Sat 25 Feb 2023
at 22:21
  • msg #61

Game Discussion

Let's start with the first character that go posted.  Good ol' Evžen


quote:
Characteristics
Int 2 Str 0 Pre -1 Dex 2
Per 1 Stm -1 Com -1 Qik 2

Traits
Score
Calm 1
Easily Offended 1
Brave 2

2 Athletics

4 Awareness

1 Bargain

5 Charm

5 Folk Ken

3 Guile

Language:
Czech
5
Lore:
Holy Roman Empire 4

Lore:
Weather phenomena 1

Profession:
Guard 2

Ride 4

Weapons: Single 4

Just an autocreaate, but a nice character - Evžen, 27, M, originally from near Brno.  Blonde hair, soft brown eyes, and speaks Czech and German


I commented before in general.  Don't have an issue with Evžen per se.  Few comments/questions:

-First he needs a virtue to take martial abilities.  He'll need to take the Warrior Virtue.  And he needs at least one flaw to balance that
-"Profession: Guard" just doesn't make much sense to me.  I think Awareness and Athletics would cover anything needed under a "Guard" skill.  I think the points would be better spent elsewhere, like another Single Weapon or Bows or Thrown Weapon or whatever you guys fits best.
-What are his specializations?  Remember, giving an ability's a specialization gives it a +1 under those circumstances.  So Single Weapon (Longsword) is going to give him a +4 with most weapons and a +5 with a longsword.
-As is, he seems less a shield grog and more the spokesman of the group. But po-tah-to po-tay-to.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 24 posts
Boo
Sat 25 Feb 2023
at 22:38
  • msg #62

Game Discussion

Emrys-I think your sheet looks alright.

Two comments:

1) Regarding Favors: What we discussed before was that Emrys would owe favors to a magi of Tremere or Tytalus due to them intervening to help him get settled in the Rhine.  Are we still going with that?  If so, then I would prefer to say those Favors are owed to Frederich's parens.  Just makes things tidier.

I am not married to that idea.  Just a suggestion.

2) The specialization on Font of Knowledge.  Just to set levels, Emrys will need to know what skill/knowledge he is drawing on in order to get the best use of it.  So for example, if you come across some writing on a wall in a language you don't recognize, you could use the Font to interpret it. You'd be able to read it (or at least read it as well as can expected with a score of 2), but you wouldn't know what language it was necessarily.

I would say you could use the Font to learn the language but that would be a lab type activity and would require enough examples of the language to work out a lexicon.  So for example, you could use Font to ask directions from someone in Portuguese.  And if you head enough texts in Portuguese, you could learn the ability Portuguese using Font to interpret the texts and figuring things out on your own. But that of course would take time.  Hence, be a lab activity.

Thoughts on this?

Thanks.
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 25 posts
Boo
Sat 25 Feb 2023
at 23:42
  • msg #63

Game Discussion

Alright Frederich.  I responded to your PM.  You can copy me back on the PM or post it here.

P3, you can always use the "Vanilla" Redcap to test drive the companion and swap him/her out for another companion later.  So I think that is a wise move.

Let me know if there are questions/comments from anyone.

Thanks Folks.
Emrys
player, 23 posts
Sun 26 Feb 2023
at 03:12
  • msg #64

Game Discussion

In reply to The Founder's Ghost (msg # 62):

Yeah I'm fine with favors owed to Friderich's parens (an aside I've seen you spell it Fridrich and Friderich...and it's Frederich for your handle...which do you prefer?).

If you have something specific in mind for favors I'm all good with it.  I didn't take hedge wizard with Emrys (nor the seeker flaw either Friderich) but he's certainly told Friderich of his dream to found a covenant (whether its Rhine or elsewhere) if they can find the right spot.

Friderich's parens could have provided enough help to get him started.  I decided against any problems with his own parens (like tormenting master or weak parens) and more that A) Emrys parens doesn't have the clout or resources to help to any degree even with the basics, and B) Custennin is more focused on the Titan cult than his (now useless to him as free lab labor) newly gauntleted apprentice.

A note on grogs.  Friderich's shield grog is likely going to be a big man who is more personally loyal to Friderich himself and the Wasserman family.  I'm not sure what the family did for a living but his family likely worked for the Wasserman's as laborers in some enterprise or another and after misfortune struck he was sent to Fengheld to watch over Friderich (and the fact the hit to family fortunes likely made it harder to feed him.  He made a place for himself in Fengheld's turb as 'the bear grog', and wherever 'Friddie' goes he follows;-)  If that's alright.

Other grog would be covenant raised and more a woodsie/archer type.  His motivations for leaving Fengheld on some harebrained scheme would partially stem from chaffing with Fengheld's grog captain and somewhat the turb overall and partially he wants to 'do something' other than watch a gate the rest of his life (not that it's a bad life, compared to being a serf/peasant;-)

On Font, yeah I figured it would be something that you had to have some clue that it actually existed and had an immediate task tied to it.  For instance, you couldn't use it to "I want to know Chinese" it would have to be tied to speaking to someone to communicate in Mandarin or read a bit of script.  Lab activity (assuming the roll could be made for an entire season without botching it...I guess you could fail the roll up to so many days and it would be considered like 'distraction' (page 165) on the failed days for the season's limits on how often he could fail the test) would be to 'translate a specific text' or I guess he could theoretically 'teach' a language but the gain limit would still be 2 limit (um...though a source quality of 17 with 1 student or 14 with 2).

Hrm.  I was thinking more on crafts if we needed an extended period where we needed a base level carpenter.  Not that I want my magi to do carpentry for an entire season...but if you teach a covenfolk to do carpentry...  That actually fits theme too.  Heh
The Founder's Ghost
GM, 26 posts
Boo
Sun 26 Feb 2023
at 04:31
  • msg #65

Game Discussion

In reply to Emrys (msg # 64):

Sorry Frederich.  For some reason I keep mistyping your name and never quite catch all the typos.
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