I'm seriously reconsidering whether I want to play in this game or not.

I have never read the Alfheim Gazeteer, so I was assuming that the basic rules would apply.

If every single option from a bunch of books I don't have are the rules for this game, I think I will politely drop out. I was hoping for a nice simple game of Classic D&D, not this.

Yes, let's please just start with the basic rules. Pretend we're just learning to play this, because some of us haven't played it for years and only really remember the basic rules.

In reply to Vrigori (msg # 10):

As long as the rule is laid out and everyone adheres to it is all that matters, isn't it? Nothing wrong with house rules. There are house rules in every game.

This message was deleted by the player at 13:27, Fri 28 July 2023.

In reply to Birahu (msg # 11):

It's not really what was advertised, though. Not everyone wants to learn or keep track of a lot of additional stuff, even if it's freely available stuff.

If it optional, that's possibly OK. Like, nothing to do with elves affects me personally. The thief skills listed here were slightly different from the Rules Cyclopedia, but probably close enough.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:57, Wed 26 July 2023.

The name of the game is literally "BEMCI".

So long as you, as the GM, understands that I have never even read a gazeteer. I will be clueless to some of your rules unless they are listed in a thread so I can read them, or become familiar with them.

Barring that....play on.

In reply to Gwydion (msg # 9):

I understand your confusion. BECMI is not the original D&D. I have actually never read the original D&D, but do have AD&D, which I find ponderous to wade through. The B/X, BECMI, AD&D were intertwined to a large degree.

If you have played some 5th edition D&D, it is considered to be a simpler/streamlined version of this era, but only in general concepts. Then B/X, BECMI, AD&D took major changes when 3rd edition D&D arrived. And Wizards/WOTC never went back to them.

This group seems to want to use a generic setting instead of the Mystara setting. 3rd edition stared the Forgotten Realms setting. I think original D&D used Greyhawk ??

I will be including various notes to the rules as we move along. Wounds, combat sequence come to mind. The magic spells have probably changed in wording as well for you.

I would be interested in seeing your thoughts on original D&D before you choose to leave. I wish you well in you future D&D games !!

In reply to Birahu (msg # 12):

I welcome your spirit here, but trading PDFs may go against the RPOL administrators. So I must ask you to remove the message.

In reply to Gwydion (msg # 9):

I forgot to mention that you're welcome to lurk & watch if desired. And rejoin if desired. Still active ...

In reply to Aslanii (msg # 16):

I would like to play BECMI, as was advertised. I will be sticking to what is in the Rules Compendium. It should work with everything else and not give me any advantages. I don't expect this chararacter to last long anyway.

In reply to Vrigori (msg # 18):

There are differences between BECMI & Rules Compendium. We can hash them out as they appear. My compendium has micro print which is difficult in the old eyes ...

I will be working on the Combat Sequence & wound recovery. I will also post the Wrestling, martial arts, punching & boxing charts I would like to use. You roll & they give a variety of attacks with damage. These are taken from various AD&D sources. I feel they give a better feel for hand to hand combat. As usual, discuss.

It may take me thru the weekend to wade thru this material to add, a lot to review & such, but serves as a reference for all of us.

I'm extending character sheet completion thru the weekend. Please add/copy your character sheet to your Character Details. It keeps everything in one place ...

We had a last minute character add, Zenia. It took me 2 tries to wade thru the computer stuff. Not a computer geek by any means ... I have stopped the ads for new players.

If anyone knows how to add maps to RPOL, please explain in common English ...  A regional map would be nice ... Sometimes character positioning would be nice too ...

Add away. I will not be using any of those, at any point.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:06, Thu 27 July 2023.

I have the Rules Cyclopedia and some of the Gazzetteers, including Elves of Alfheim which I've not read in years - I don't recall the passage on elves having to choose F or MU at each level, at all, but as I said its been a long time.

The RC clearly has elves as B/X intended, a mix of F/MU. As someone who usually plays elves I'd be very disappointed with the Alfheim ruling - it does admittedly hark back to the earliest days of (O)D&D, when elves could progress in either class but had to state prior to starting an adventure which class they would be playing, and were nerfed to 4th level Fighter/8th level MU in any event. I guess you had the option to use either class if the chips were down, though I'm not sure how that affected experience for the character on that particular adventure.

3rd Edition onwards of AD&D also instituted that rule, which severely nerfed multi-class characters and paved the way for the superhero single classes that have followed since. There's not much difference between a 12th level Fighter and a multi-classed 10th level Fighter/2nd level Cleric, the latter is slightly more diverse. But there is an enormous difference between a 12th level Fighter and a 6th/6th level Fighter/Wizard. The latter is at best an NPC compared to 12th level characters, and has a very good chance of being nuked in a 12th level campaign. From this point on there was basically no value in multi-classing.

In B/X and 1E & 2E of AD&D (the most popular forms of the game!), multi-class characters were only a level or maybe two below the highest level single-class characters (like 8th/8th level compared to 9th level single class), which made them much more valuable and gave them a far greater chance to survive. The great equalizing factor was the level limits placed on multi-classes, so there was balance to the choices you could make in the game. It's a much, much better rule.

If you create a maps thread, include <img src="URL HERE"> in a post, where URL is a direct link address on  an image hosting site.

If you are adding a map to the "Game Map" in the game menu, go to GM menu and click on "update game maps". There you can upload an image file to a certain size. JpEG images usually are sufficiently sized.

OK, I found a copy of the Alfheim Gazateer online, and that was NOT from page 14. Took me a while to find it. It's on page 63, in the section "Elven Magic". The paragraph previous to what you quoted is vital for the context.

This is not how the Elf class works normally, it's the rate at which 10th level Elves can improve their spellcasting above 10th level ability, if they have the right teacher. XP above level 10, if using this rule, can be split between XP for Attack Ranks (as per Companion Set), or for improved casting ability, using the same XP benchmarks for Attack Ranks.

I was kinda worried that you'd want Elf characters to work their way up to 4000xp just to gain either a level of Fighter or a level of Magic-User.

Just to clarify, that's not how multiclassing works in 4th Edition D&D. A 4th Edition character always advances at the same rate, but spends some of their (many) feats to gain abilities from the other class. One is always at the level of everyone else in the party, just with some different options than they would normally have, and a slight flavor of the other class (or classes, in the case of half-elves and bards).

There are also hybrid characters in 4th Edition, which have abilities similar to those of both classes, but with some limitations. As they level they are also required to choose their additional abilities so as to generally have the same amount from each class.

Hybrid characters advance as quickly as other classes, but aren't guaranteed to work as well, since any classes can hybridize, but not all hybridize well. A few combinations are probably too good.

In reply to Gwydion (msg # 24):

Thank you !!

In reply to Gwydion (msg # 24):

I shall have to dig deeper then. I have a PDF copy from drivethrurpg. Sometimes the paging is difficult to figure out. If you have the correct entry, cite it for me to review so we straighten this out.

Next question, non-magic HP recovery per day. I have seen various numbers, from 1 to 3. I was going to use, which assumes rest, minimal movement. 1 if some movement over easy terrain, toads, flat path, etc. There were some other conditions which I found on the Pandius website. Pandius is a sort of collection site for assorted BECMI materials.

In reply to Aslanii (msg # 27):

First of all, I will suggest that the rules for the advancement are in the Basic Set, which was published in 1983, not in an optional splatbook published five years later. That would be quite the omission for Frank Mentzer to leave that out if his intention was for Elves to not only need double the XP of a Fighter to level up, but also to only level in either fighting or magic ability at a time.

But to clarify, check out the Alfheim Gazeteer, page 63 (page 64 of my PDF version), paragraph 4 (paragraph 5 is what you quoted above):

"Elves who learn their magic from the Keepers of the Tree of Life can progress in their magics beyond the 10th level of experience, just as fighting elves who learn their fighting from humans can progress beyond the 10th level of fighting."

To me, it's clearly referencing Attack Ranks for Elves of 10th level to improve their chances to hit (and get the high level Fighter options), and these are similar rules for 10th level Elves to improve their spellcasting.

The rules in the Basic Set should inform you that an Elf advances as both Fighter and Magic-User simultaneously.

Greetings Zenia! Thanks GM, Deleted, no, I know, I don't intend for that to be thought, it will get you banned if you do that! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Then the elf advancement problem is resolved.

Thanks Birahu, reference PDF pages as needed.

Got my copy of the Alfheim Gazetteer out tonight and I 100% concur with what Gwydion has quoted. It is just for Elf characters of 10th level (and beyond).
Otherwise the Basic rule applies, as Gwydion noted.

In reply to Zenia (msg # 32):

I play humans, no skin in the game! ;-) Just happy to have another game!