This is a mostly OOC thread for the purpose of planning, plotting, and scheming.

"Ok, so is anyone else creeped out that she offered us that much cash up front, and then didn't fight too hard to keep an extra? I think she means to kill us."

Yeah, the fact she wants to know everyone we talk to is kind of freaky too.  My leaning is actually to have her meet us to participate in a "meeting" with someone shortly before the run and then keep her on ice during the run.  If there's a welcome party when we come out, at least we'll have some leverage.  She did say we could dictate the terms of the transfer.  She wanted to be involved, so we could let her keep an eye on what's going on from a safe distance.

My plans: head to the site and do a quick long-range aerial scan to get a sense of exactly what the set-up looks like, then keep the place under surveillance for a good 24 hours to get a sense of number of employees, race, patterns of behavior etc.  Should be able to find out whether security is internal or contractors.  If the latter, can find out who.  Also will try to identify cameras and other security systems that can be picked up on sensors.  Finally, will try to crack the local security's encryption.

Any chance you can do invisibility?

In terms of research, we want to know who security is.  Should also find out where Mitushima-affiliated facilities are that might provide backup.  We should avoid searching for the file-name keyword itself as there are likely monitors set up to watch for that.  If we can find out who built the facility, that might give us some electronics and other security plans that could be useful.  Decking the site itself is risky.  If we do go in, it'll be essential to leave no foot-print.  If they figure out we've been there, they'll up security.  Learning what we can about the Johnson would be good too - might give us an idea of what the play is.

So how long does downloading from a tablet take?

Downloading will take second, no stress.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:57, Sat 07 Mar 2015.

Things only take a long time when you're jacked in and people are trying to shoot at you ;>

That's great!  Just great!  No pressure on the run, right?  :/

Re: invis - it won't be my best work, but I can do it.

If you want I can do a quick astral sweep over the site, see if they have any patrolling spirits or wards we need to know about. I won't go through, but an aerial look shouldn't cause more problems than payoff.

Does anyone have a bolthole we can stash communal gear and scheme IC in?

Either we aren't meant to survive the run, or what we are obtaining is worth a whole lot more than what they are paying us.  If they wanted to kill us, wouldn't they be paying us more after the fact rather than up front?

We could always set up a few decoy meetings with fake contacts too.  Is anyone good with disguises?

I think scouting out the place with the drones and on the astral is a good idea too.  (maybe do astral first to make sure invisibility will be ok later).  If we don't want to deck the site directly, we can go for the people who deal with the site.  The security, shipping, cleaning companies (if they are off site too).  Maybe even check out a few key employees as well, like supervisors and secretaries.

For a bolthole St. V might be able to set up something at a shipyard or marina.  Maybe an empty cargo container or a boat that is not currently in use?  He would have to check and see what's available.

Copperhead won't trust you guys enough to show you any of her bolt-holes yet.  Certainly agree to doing an astral sweep.  That can probably proceed in parallel with the longer-term drone sweep.  (I've got a shaman friend who can probably hide the drone, so should be low-risk for a passive scan.)

Agree that going indirect is a good route.

As a note, you are operating under a timeline. My plan is one day of "planning" (i.e., no meetings or active interactions) equals at most a week of real time. That'll probably get collapsed a little bit if I keep posting as rapidly as we've done.

At this point, you all need to finish up your meet with Eve and head out, or roll up your sleeping bags.

My schedule will be wonky the week of the 23rd, so just expect that.

So let's get to posting with our intentions then!  ;)

BTW, now that I've gotten information off the tablet, is there anything else this 'Eve' is going to share with us?  Like money?

You guys haven't technically formally accepted the job yet :P

I think Toombs should still pump her for more cash on the basis of the target's expecting a run and there's a chance the other team will spook the client.  (And if she willingly throws another wad of nuyen at us, then my spidey sense will jump to overdrive.)  After that, we say yes, take our cred sticks and  walk out of the room to the adjoining bar where we can dance around a bit and figure out whose place we go hang out at to do more planning.

I doubt its possible, but I wish I could coax her to buy me the latest decking equipment.

She gave us 10000 for covering business expenses.

I need about 1.5 million in order to buy the Fairlight Excalibur.

Heh, yeah, I guess that is just a little bit over budget...

Not to belittle the game, but I've never seen any game in any system last long enough for you to afford the Fairlight Excalibur. There might be a mission where we steal one, but there's a reason why it's got that name - thing's a legendary artifact and you can count yourself lucky if you've ever seen one.

It appears she really doesn't care about our contact network, which was what I was fretting over. Dead contacts are a serious loss of investment in-game and can cripple you.

While St. V is tracking down somewhere safe, Toombs will do an astral sweep. If PB is ok with it, I know there are a few Awakened clubs in the area (according to errata) that I can rent out a warded back room to leave my meat while I go a-wanderin. Unless Copperhead wants to mention that she's a rigger, in which case I can just leave myself buckled in while she waits in the van.
We do have a map and a general location, hai?

As far as entry is concerned, we have a few options. We've got the ninja route, package delivery, corpsec, and janitors. Of all of those, Corpsec is the one most likely to have unquestioned access to the server room (unless we can somehow swing server maintenance as a cover). UPS gives us ready access to a disposable vehicle (though we'd have to steal one first, just like old times).
And of course, St.V would look the least out of place as corpsec or janitors, & the party as a whole would probably look the least suspicious to assensing as corpsec... But that said, it would be the hardest to spoof.

St.V, if you can swing that temporary hideaway, that would be great.
Noruas, if you have the chops to do some background investigation for building plans and subcontractors, that would be (I think) our best investment of your skills at the moment.

Toombs isn't willing to try to push for more cash. If we find we need some more gear, that might be worth asking for later. While I like the idea of getting free radios with broadcast encryption, if this is a setup then they would be... problematic.
Of course we could ask for radios and refrain from using them until our next job. But otherwise I'm not going to push for more without a very specific grocery list and a clear & present need - because the easiest way to guarantee that your J isn't going to pay you is to make the pay more expensive than the Cleaner.
This message was last edited by the player at 14:21, Sun 08 Mar 2015.

Agree we won't use the radios this mission - except perhaps to misdirect.  The 2am "earliest ingress" timeline makes package delivery and janitors both tough.  Neither are likely to arrive at that point of the evening.  So that leaves 3 options:
- ignore the instructions on arrival time (which we might get away with, but only if we're totally successful in making no noise
- come in as a corp sec team beefing up security due to a reported pending attachk
- do the ninja thing

I think corp sec is trickiest.  We'd need spoof the local team not only for when we arrived, but also for the following day or two.  And that'd be hard.  As well, we'd need good decking support to get us set up as recognized, to re-route any double-checking they'd choose to do, etc.  At the same time, we'd need our decker free to check things out on the inside.  Plus we'd need to grab the appropriate vehicle and correct sizes of uniforms, proper id badges, etc.

Not totally beyond the realm of possibility, but not something I suspect we should try to pull off with an entry-level team.

In terms of ninja, I'm a B&E specialist, but I'm not sure what anyone else's stealth capabilities are.

I can do a quick zip closer to the base if people want me to. I don't know that risking an alarm or two is worth it, and I can always go back on my own later.

Also, if you can use Etiquette to get info on the J, I can try to scare some up when the recon sweep is over. If we believe that there's anything new to be gained, anyway.

This is early in the storyline, so it's possible that magical security was pretty poor.  Physical security seems amazingly sucky too for a research complex that they decided to bury inside a fragging hill in the middle of a park in the middle of Seattle - not like that's a cheap exercise.  Just sticking your nose in briefly into the lobby to see if anything's there wouldn't be bad.  If there's a ward you can't see, that's useful.  If there's no wards and no elementals, then you can scout the whole place.  If you see anything, you can probably disappear before whatever it is can see you.  And if it does see you, you can probably buzz before it gets a sense of what you are and whether it needs to be concerned - presuming you pop in in a location that's going to best position you to see what's going on and be somewhat hard to see yourself.

Way I figure it, there's four answers for why the phys-sec is so poor around here.
1 - the site relies on anonymity and/or nearby sec assets. Expect security to be pointed inwards - anything caught outside is low grade enough to be caught by rent-a-cops, and anything that can get past them has been deemed too skilled for countermeasures to be considered cost effective. If this is the case, then the local guards are supposed to act as spotters and are equipped for a delaying action until the bigger guns can roll in.

This is not the smart bet, so we should use it as additional info while assuming another. Also see 3.


2 - there are security measures we haven't found yet. This could be physical security that has been better concealed than a rigger and a mage could find at first glance. That means trapdoors in the earth and direct-wire turrets or sleeper drones. If we find records of a lot of excavations in the area, then there is a very good chance of trapdoor turrets that can't be found by radio snooping. Any magical sec is either on-call or exclusively inside the facility. The heavy hitting security will probably also be inside the facility to maintain the element of surprise. Worst to worst, they could have passive security in the form of land mines, concertina wire bundles and monofilament wire.

If this is the case, then we need to commit to more research. If/when we identify drone types, then we can try to isolate the model and figure out ways around it. Nothing else can be said until we know more.


3 - Pitcher Plant. Like option 1, the pitcher plant is about keeping credible threats captured inside rather than keeping them out. Security is strongly pointed inwards, and our goal will be as far into the facility as possible so that we have to fight the longest path to get back out. The real problem with this is it fits in perfectly with 1; the trapper security provides ample time for off-site reinforcements to drop the hammer. In other words, sticking around for the cavalry is inadvisable.

If this is the case, then the best strategy is to overwhelm them after cutting off their communications and avenue of escape (for messengers). Radio jammers, a barricade, and severing (or prepping) the hard line would be our priority 1 for prep. Magic support is most likely only available from their reinforcements, though wards should still be present.

4 - Pursuit - The facility relies on passive internal security and pursuit based external sec. So we can get in, and we can get out, but we cannot get away. Expect a nearby rigger with scads of drones to respond to (silent) alarm and gun us down as we try to break off. This works equally well with a Summoner.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:26, Wed 18 Mar 2015.

Still in favor of dressing up as janitors. It's the easiest way to sneak a troll and two dwarves into a japancorp facility, and requires a minimum of hacking/espionage with guaranteed access.

On a related note, does anyone here have connections to obtain recreational and/or pharmaceutical grade drugs?  And hopefully for a cheaper price?  I was previously going to depend on Carver or Thaden, but since those characters were dropped I need someone to step up for the role.

Which reminds me, can Copperhead and/or Toombs detect whether or not the security booth has wireless internet or bluetooth?  That might be helpful for me and all of us.

That is what we have been checking this entire time, or at least at the beginning.
Don't you have any contacts that could help you with this? Fixers should do fine.

Well, I just wanted to check to see if there were others who can provide the drugs cheaper.

Which reminds me, did the fly-by both with the drone and the mage detect any sort of ventilation systems?

I might be able to make you some stuff.  Though if I were BB, I'd probably hide the rolls and do something amusing if I whiffed. :>  Note that the price of "make your own" probably won't be significantly cheaper than bought, though might be able to ignore the street-level markup.  Competition and mass production mean that do-it-yourself often isn't cheaper.

Didn't ask too much about the ventilation systems because the Johnson already indicated they'd likely be pretty well secured.

Pumping gas into the ventilation system would also violate the terms of the job.  Hard to pretend nothing happened if everyone suddenly goes nighty-night for 4 hours.  Did you have something else in mind?

By our tactical assessment, I was also led to believe that any ducting would be going through their garage or near the front door of the facility.

So, going in as janitors won't work if they only have one janitor.  And if there's only 4 guards, odds are pretty good they know the janitor on site.  We might be able to give the janitor a good case of food poisoning and arrange to take his place, though there's still the question of how to add our new guy to the security system.

I actually like the notion of giving one or two of the staff food poisoning.  If they're busy worshiping the porcelain thrown, that's a few fewer eyes keeping an eye on things.  We'd have to time it so that symptoms wouldn't kick in until they were on-site though.  If two of the 4 guards are down, that leaves the janitor, one guard at the front desk and one guard wandering the facility - who we can monitor on the radio.

We'll see if there's another delivery truck tonight and, if so, we can find out where it's coming from.  That might be a mechanism of entry too.

Well, I need abut 2-3 bricks worth of hashish or something equivalent in hash oil for the job.  And no, it wouldn't be nighty-night if the guards were baked before we entered.  The idea is to slowly pump the place full of THC, but not enough to knock them out.  This would give us an edge to perform with a higher margin of error than Mission Impossible hanging in the silent room with the sweat sensitive floor.

This is also why I asked for phone cloning and/or bluetooth/wireless setup.  I wish for a way to be able to access their security at the front gate to see if they have a log/manifest dictating who they are/n't expecting.  This clearly would make our jobs easier.

Which reminds me, does Toombs have access to Improved Invisibility?
This message was last edited by the player at 01:26, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

The security at the front gate won't be wireless.  In the SR universe, all matrix is hard-wired until 2070+.  We'll have to create our own wireless access point.

Assuming we could pipe a gas through the complex (which we can't), "baked" would be difficult to achieve.  Very hard to control the concentration in different places.  So some might not even feel a buzz and others would be comatose (or dead).  As well, hard for most people to not notice the effects.  If they realize that something's not quite right, pretty easy to hit the panic button, even if they're giggling to themselves as they do it.

Toombs mentioned he had invisibility, but it wasn't great.  Can you be a bit more specific?

Awesome new spell idea: Montazuma's revenge.  Could be a highly effective way to get people to decide that a detailed inspection of your credentials isn't necessary, have someone leave a guard post for a few minutes, be a little less aware of the surroundings for a few minutes, etc.

Baking the entire facility wouldn't be hard when you just disperse the gas from the ventilation source.  All rooms that share the same ventilation source would be well gassed.  Thats why I need the concentrated dosage.  It would distract the guards just enough to allow us some wiggle room if we need some.

The invisibility would allow someone to just walk up to their guard booth and look over the guard's shoulder to see the manifest/logs.  That would allow us to prepare for the situation in advance.  We would also get a clearer idea of what to pose as to get in.

That's not how building ventilation works.  Air turnover time varies significantly depending on the size of the space.  Run a stream of air full of gas for 5 minutes in a small room and the concentration could be enough to knock someone over.  Do it in an atrium and they might not notice it.  And that assumes that ventilation will go where you want it.  We already know it's not an option in this facility anyhow.

Invisibility would be a significant asset, presuming we don't have spirits or other detection mechanisms.  If Toombs can make me invisible, I can probably get down to the mechanical room to set up a tap - allowing Noruas to hack the security on the emergency doors.  I can then open them from the inside and let everyone in.

The fact we have a fixed arrival time of 2am puts a real crimp in things.  There isn't much that shows up then.  And the notion of someone coming in earlier and hiding is a problem too.  Heck, even taking over the janitor job becomes impossible because they arrive around 8pm (presuming an 8 hour shift).

It may be we'll have no choice but to hack the back doors from the outside.  Alternatively, we ignore orders and plan to slip in early, or at least slip one person in early.

Lols, I still stand by my method of baking the place.  Even if you don't want to do it, I still want to know the ventilation sources for the place.  We 'might' need to know all we can possibly learn about the place in the short window of time we have....At least I do.  If I have to leave you guys behind to escape by crawling through a duct, I'd like to know where they are beforehand! Just kidding...not really.  But I prefer to prepare for as much as possible.

But regarding sneaking someone or all of us in sounds like a great plan.  Besides, as long as the J doesn't find out we start next to the finish line all's good.  She only said that we can start running when the bell starts at 2AM.  In my case, that just means me beginning to hack the place at 2AM.  We could start off as janitors in this case and get a chance to prepare for our heist whilst cleaning the floors and scrubbing the toilets.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:53, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

Found the quote about the vents.

I was thinking, should we try to find a way to get in touch with the runners that will be infiltrating the other facility at the same time we go to ours?  It would be handy to get some sort of warning if they mess up on their run so that we can know if security is suddenly going to be stepped up on ours.

Also, maybe it would be best if everyone didn't actually go inside the building.  It could be handy to have someone outside if the four security guards call for backup.  And if someone inside gets into a tight spot, the outside man could create a distraction and redirect attention to a different area of the facility.  It would probably be easy to make them think some teenage hooligans are poking their noses around and getting into trouble.  Something to keep the guards occupied, but certainly not worth calling in.

I still believe we should leave no rock unturned.  I still want to know about the ventilation systems.  I'm pretty sure bio-containment would be used mainly for the labs, but I may be mistaken.  Still, any information I get is better than no info at all.  I'm not going to ignore this ventilation just because the J says no.  DO YOU WANT ME TO DIE ST. VELVETEEN?

Actually, knowing about other shadowrunners at other facilities is great.  But IMO I think we should not contact them.  There's too much exposure and risk of us getting caught if the other groups leak this information.  I believe we could try to find out about them, but its best we don't contact them.

In terms of getting in touch with the other runners - we can ask the Johnson, but I expect she'll say that's why she wants to be involved any time we're talking to someone - to ensure we create no conflicts.  And unless the other team is showing poor operational security, we'd have little chance of finding them.  That said, checking around quietly can't hurt.  Who knows, maybe someone'll roll an 18 :>

Even if the vents weren't well designed, it'd be nearly impossible to get who we wanted with a dose that would be effective and unnoticed.  We've got 4 guards + janitor, at least 3 of whom are mobile and could be anywhere.  The guards in the front are in a large space which makes dosing a sufficient amount challenging.  Too risky.

If I can get a radio signal out, I can create a bit of a distraction outside if necessary even if I'm inside.  Biggest challenge with leaving someone outside is it could be difficult to move them quickly to where they're needed.  It's a big hill and there are cameras, so moving where needed could be tough.  That said, we don't necessarily need all 4 of us to try to get to the server room.

BB: were there any cars other than the guards and the janitor parked overnight?  I.e. Any keeners pulling an all-nighter or crashing on the couch?  Was it 4 guards and another janitor coming in at 4am when the others left?

We can poke holes in my ideas regarding ventilation till the day pigs fly, I still want the information I asked for.  What I do with it is my business.

I also need Toombs to please figure out what the wiring looks like in the walls.  Where do or don't they run.  How thick the walls are.  Possible materials they're made with.  Thickness of doors, their material, types of locks, etc.  Basically, I'm just waiting for BB to say whether or not he can even float past the main gate without setting off alarms.

Planting a tap on an exposed camera sounds like our ideal next step. At the least, we should be able to piggyback off the local security feeds to get some free intel on the inside - like hidden cameras, ultrasound emitters, and tripwires. If there's a good feed leading to the server room, we could even pull up some research on the door model, see if there's any prep-work we can roll beforehand to improve our chances of popping it easily.
Best case scenario, we gain access to cardreaders and doors. If that's the case, I suggest Noruas work on a data bomb/back door that will spread appropriate access keys throughout the facility. We'll save a lot of time (from either theft or use of Sequencers & Maglock Passkeys) if we can just add some PINs and a few cheap security passes we can make ourselves. On top of that, if we can disguise ourselves as one thing or another, it will look a lot better if we can just slot a card in front of suspicious guards.

regarding replacing security at the target site:
IFF we decide that replacing guards is the way to go, we could try having a matrix run to crack the subcontractor's network. They're a second-string corp, and I'm willing to bet they aren't even above a 'B' rating. I'm willing to bet we could insert our own photo ID's and some generously altered identifying information to gain full access. It doesn't have to stand up to scrutiny, and we can erase the data after the fact.
This would make taking advantage of Montezuma's revenge so much easier, but it does increase our risk of exposure. Fortunately, since it's not the target site, I still consider the risk minimized (somewhat).

Reminder: this is a biotech facility with its own secure ventilation system. Any major contaminants would set off an alarm. It would also coat the entire facility in THC which would be somewhat... noticeable.
On top of that, you are still GASSING ALL THE GUARDS which will mean the facility will immediately know that something has happened, kissing away our performance bonus.

As it stands I have a Force 1 Improved Invisibility; for the time being I was going to rely on summoned spirits to use the Concealment power until I can afford to upgrade the spell.
Which reminds me, I can probably get that done for Gunner's drones, if you want me to give that a shot now.

I'll buzz the facility up close when I'm sure that everything we can learn passively is done. I'm primarily concerned with answering questions without setting off alarms for as long as possible. There's a very good chance that I'm not going to be able to spot wiring and other high tech stuff because that's both a major limitation of astral perception and a lack of training on the part of my character.

And Noruas, if you start doing your lone-wolf DIY bulldrek, I will do everything in my power to force you to make new characters until you either learn your lesson or leave the game. If you want to play solo, pick up a controller and a copy of Deus Ex.

St. V, that sounds like an excellent idea if you want to get the ball rolling. We don't need anything else about the other group, but an advanced notice for drek+fan is a smart idea. You can also talk to your fixer about tracking down plans for the facility. Otherwise, look at your knowledge skills to see what you can learn from the facility on your own. Knowledge of security systems could help us find the camera that Copperhead is looking for. The legwork is boring (especially for the sam) but there are still ways to help.

@Noruas: Actually, what all of us do is all of our business.  Going lone wolf in a way that might jeopardize the mission is not kosher.  It didn't go well last time and we don't want a repeat.  If we have to proceed as a 3-player game, we can.  Not trying to keep you from having fun, but if you start leaving an unnecessary (based on group consensus, not your own opinion) body count or going off on in a way that's detrimental to the team, you won't last long.  I believe BB explained this when you rejoined?

@St. V: There's a bit of history here as you can probably tell :>  To track down the other team, might make sense to start with the gang who hooked us up with the Johnson.  If she used them to grab us, she may well have used them to grab team A too.

@Toombs: Security is wearing company-specific uniforms, so I'm not clear on whether they are contractors.  I'm an expert in security protocols and devices, so I can probably find them once I have a chance to look around.  I'll probably take you up on your offer to camouflage one of my drones to take a peak around.  The good new is that metal tends to show up on radar fairly well.  Hopefully it'll get me close enough to see what kind of doors they have, what sort of key-pads, etc.  Ideally, I'll even be able to watch them use a keypad - unless they all just walk through the front door.

Will need to wait until BB returns from the big easy first as I want to get a better understanding of exactly how close the treeline comes to the various doors - front entrance, loading doc, emergency exits, etc.  Also, whether there are any windows looking out from any of the floors.

For the record, I have no contacts who would be any use here.

No, the night that you were watching was just guards and the janitor (and the hauling truck, while it was there). There's no day-time janitor, so when she clocks out, that's it.

Did 4 guards arrive when the other 4 departed?  And there were no other vehicles in the parking lot?  What's the distance from treeline to various doors?

You threatening me?  Why don't you just do it instead of talking about it?  If I wanted to jeopardize the mission, I would've done it from the get-go.  So keep your threats to yourself unless you want me to really pull some 'lone wolf DIY bulldrek' as you so kindly put it.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:29, Mon 23 Mar 2015.

PM

The four guards arrived before the other departed (approximately), so each is relieved by one (or two) others. At the wee hours, the parking lot is otherwise empty, but it starts filling up around 5.

The road splits and has a large group of trees in the center there, so they probably reach within 7 or 8 meters of the front door, and get to within 4 meters of the side loading dock.

I'm a little confused over numbers.  Four guards arrived, how many left?  And how many were manning the front desk?

How close is the tree line to the emergency exits?

Would it be a bad idea to call the Johnson directly and have her set up a way to give/receive warning from the second team?  Assuming there is a second team and they are actually planning a second run, it would be in her best interest to have the warning system in place.  Right?

Doesn't hurt to ask, though if I were her, I'd insist that the communication flow through me - avoids any possible leakage about the respective targets.

I don't think communication with the other group would be necessary anyway, just so long as we have a way for them to signal us if their run goes bad, or vice versa.  Even if they signal the Johnson and she signals us, it would be better than nothing.

So is looking into the supply lists part of that 1000 dollars?  Did she know anything about the gangers?  St. V will be sharing his info with the others when they get back.  Will meeting Blake be something we are supposed to bring Eve along for?  If so, we can ask about the signal arrangements when we call her to set up a meet.

Yes, greasing palm counts as an equipment expense. Just don't abuse it.

Yes, Eve expects to be invited to meet Blake. This isn't part of your contact network, so that exception does not apply.

Sorry, yes, Rose has followed up on the gangers. They are part of a mid-sized street gang called King's Crimson. They run under a guy named Alan Corliss.

Just out of curiosity, how many 'bots does Copperhead have?  And are any of them remote control car-sized or smaller?

Smallest couple are about a cubic foot, though a bit larger when armed.  Total count is 4 (or 5 if you count the van).

The small ones could probably be strapped to St. V's chest and/or back if we were going in hot.  (They'd be a bit hard to explain if he was posing as a janitor though.  Particularly the grenade launcher or shot-gun pointed out the front.)

Would have done some more chattering w/ St. V and Toombs, but figure I should move things along.

Well, once I find out about the logs, do you think you would be able to pilot a bot under a vehicle heading into the facility?  That might allow us to better view the facility inside.  But this can only happen under these conditions:

1) The security doesn't check under vehicles at the entrance. (I'm sure a conceal or invisibility spell might cover this one.)
2) The loading dock area has a ramp to allow access into the facility.  If its stairs, we're screwed and have wasted a bot.
3) The bot does not make too much noise when moving.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:53, Fri 03 Apr 2015.

I think #1 is unlikely.  #2 is fine - my bot can do stairs.  #3 is a problem - the one that would be a candidate for that mission explicitly says it's a little noisy

A few other concerns:
- My drone has to be able to move as fast as the vehicle it's trying to drive under (that might be possible if I really push the drone and the inbound vehicles are moving slowly, but it'd be dicy)
- Range of control would be pretty poor once the drone started moving into the hill.  250m under good conditions in an urban environment, but inside a hill doesn't exactly qualify as "good" conditions.
- The invisibility spell we have access to is pretty poor right now.  Anyone is rolling 2s to see it.  Sneaking it past one or two dim-bulbs might be possible, but getting it past more than that will be tough.  (and even the first couple isn't guaranteed)
- Once I'm inside, I'd be sitting in a hall with no way to open doors or to get out - meaning the drone would be discovered eventually and I wouldn't be able to explore much.

All told, I'd say the risk/reward ratio isn't good enough.  If we're going to probe the inside, I think we do it astrally (and very cautiously).  I do intend to get the drones close enough to get a really good look at the back doors so we can see whether opening them is a possibility (e.g. drill a couple of small holes and feed a wire around the inside release bar to open from the inside).  Obviously we'll need control over the inside alarms for that to work.  So a lot of what's practical will depend on what you learn about physical and matrix security once we get you a jack-point.

Well while I have the benefit of +6 Concealment, do you want me to buzz through and see what can be seen? I don't know that it'll be too useful aside from getting a head count, since I can't see much in the way of tech or emplacements (including cameras).
Otherwise I was willing to wait until day 2 where I can summon the spirit from the comfort of my own hovel and buzz through then. Our best bet for cameras et al is Decking, which I think Copperhead should try to use a drone for the Dataline Tap idea. If we lose it, I'm sure we can chip in the cost of a replacement.

You'll lose your +6 as soon as you enter the building.  But I still think sticking your head in is worth while.  Objective would be to discover what they've got in the way of magical security (so as slow and careful as you can - we want to detect, not trigger :>)  If it turns out they've got none, then you can also find out what the layout of the place is, guard patrol patterns, etc.

Don't understand what you mean by use a drone for the data tap.  Can't install a data tap with a drone (they don't have the fine manipulation required to hook up the wiring).

My expectation was to go in and hook up the tap myself, then let Noruas figure out what he can see in terms of sensors and use that knowledge to let me bring a drone in close to the emergency doors and anything else that's worth snooping more closely.

Ah, I always run with the assumption that one drone has a pair of arms.

If we wait until I'm back at my place, I should be able to summon a city spirit (or hearth, since it's unclear which would apply) and get the concealment bonus while I'm inside the facility. I'm also not a fan of how much stun damage I have right now.

I suppose attaching a cyber-arm to a drone with an appropriate size frame might work.  Would probably take the place of a weapon mount though.

Spirits don't work the way you think they do :(

But think about it this way Copper, if you mount a cyberarm on your drones then you can flip people off from dozens of different directions at your convenience!

Copperhead's pretty talented at that without using her drones at all . . . :>  Plus, flipping someone off with a grenade is so much more expressive . . .

Spirits are really handy in that they're free and you never have to worry about running out of them.  But they suck in that you almost always have to summon them exactly when and where you need them - with whatever modifiers you've got then and there.  As soon as you physically or mentally leave a given domain, you can't command any spirit you summoned in that domain.  And they won't follow you from place to place.  A city spirit isn't a spirit of the whole city, it's a specific spirit tied to a particular place in the city.  So if we want a city spirit inside the complex, you can't summon it until we're inside the complex.  And if you have a forest spirit waiting outside, you'll have to have provided all of your commands before you went in.  Because you lose all remaining services as soon as you step inside the facility.

On the plus side, spirits are less likely to hate your guts and try to screw you over, though they have personalities and opinions and respond better to requests for agreeable favors than demands.  So, for example, promising that we're going to try not to hurt anyone in the complex and that it'll be a lot easier if no-one knows we're there will go over better than "hide me" as you're trying to pump the locals full of lead.

What should our next step be?

Well far as I see it, we have 3 major things that need to be done. Noruas is cracking his knuckles and breezing his way through deadly security whilst engaging in hijinks. Toombs needs to buzz the facility now that he knows there are (probably) no astral alarms.
Now, what we really need to know is which of their points of vulnerability we can exploit the most. We know the security company, the cleaners, and the delivery crews. I figure as far as price/payoff, our best bet would be to infiltrate the cleaners and see if maybe we can score some uniforms, make some fake IDs, and get Noruas to forge credentials for the night. Unfortunately the only choice we have that actually takes place during the narrow FOV of the run is the security company itself, but that would be the hardest of the three.
Failing all else, the contact said they aren't very thorough. Noruas can just crack their security, fake some info, and we can wander around with one-night sec passes.

In any case, St. V and Copperhead (and Toombs, once he's done sobering up and flying) can case the secondary sites and figure out which one we should make our move on.

I welcome input.

I want to check out the emergency exits.  That might be the easiest way to get someone in without having to deal with security at all.  Presuming Noruas can pwn the cameras, I'm going go get a really close look at those doors and see how hard they'd be to open from the outside.  They're prepared for people to go out them, but not to come in them.  Other challenge is we're not allowed to enter the building until 2am.  That makes going in as *anyone* challenging.  The security staff, cleaning staff, etc. have their shift change earlier.  So we would have to break the parameters of the mission to do that.  Coming in as the "waste collectors" could be a bit easier.  Our truck could have an "issue" that leads to a late arrival (right about 2am).  So I see us as having two options - break in through the emergency doors or commandeer the waste truck in a manner that will ensure that no-one discovers that until late the following day or, ideally, never.  (The latter would likely involve a payoff.)

We do have in our contract, palms greased.
Also, if you think waste reclamation is our best bet, then sounds smart to me. My only issue is we're definitely going to be under surveillance if we go in that route. So it may be easier to ghost it instead of smiling and waving.

Another possibility is to grease the palms of one of them to leave the door unlatched when they go in and to wear a sub-vocal so we can keep track of where they (and their escort) are.  Saves having to break in and reduces the chance of encountering anyone in the halls.  Could even produce a distraction.  ("Sorry mate.  Didn't mean to accidentally spill that vat of used organs on ya.  Here, let me use a tissue")

Is there anything St. V could or should be doing besides getting some sleep before the run?  I've been having a hard time thinking of anything that hasn't already been covered.

Chime in on the tactical debates, especially if you have ideas we haven't used. I'm pretty tapped out on this, since I've said all I can think of.

Well you have a fair bit of information. Have you settled on your preferred method of entry?

I'm back.

If we take out the truck staff, we should plan to incapacitate and somehow convince them that it's in their best interest to keep quiet about the whole incident.  Probably a combination of threats and payment.  I think the joy-girls or a variant would be as (or even more) effective than triggering any alarms.  It likely won't raise any flags but will certainly distract.

If we're going to go in as waste collectors, we need to get a good look at their uniforms and badges so we can create our own that will fit and look like us.  One possible plan is to plan two have two of our team pretend to be collectors and the other two slip in afterwards through the door that's left open.  If we wish, they could even "accidentally" splash their escort with something unpleasant.  We'll have 2 at the front door plus the one in the basement all likely distracted by our show.  And we'll have the remaining guard escorting the waste collectors.  That leaves our janitor.  They actually worry me the most - they don't have a radio and could wander pretty much wherever.  All we can really hope for is that they'll start at one end of the complex and make their way to the other end.

Copperhead can help with getting a close look at uniforms and badges if we know somewhere else where this particular company is working, but I'm not clear on whether we have that information or not.

Agreed on threats + pay, write it off to the expense account.
I'd still pull for Toombs being on the truck team, since he doesn't exactly grasp the concept of stealth yet. Added benefit of splitting the party this way is we can pretty well guarantee at least 1 guard is accounted for and easy to put out of commission. I really wish I could get a decent spirit and still rest off the stun, but that's what hermetics do best.
Far as uniforms go, we've got their work uniform already because of surveillance. Most companies like that run through a uniform rental service (especially ones with high turnover or frequent cleaning), so it shouldn't be too hard for our man Noruas to figure out where we can get some matching uniforms. If he's feeling really ritzy he can get us some temporary ID's in the company that we can forge elsewhere, or Toombs & Velveteen can try and nick some good ones from their offices.

To help streamline RL timing, I'd like to get any decking started early. So, what's the plan for Noruas? You want him to start from the outside? Take him inside and log him in? Or are you going to use disguises and technical skill to get to the server room and just use him to grab the file?

If he can safely get into the waste company's servers enough to give us passable fake ID's, that would be great. Even better if there's a way for us to forge the ID code that the real drivers are using, in case of better-than-we're-expecting security checks. I would count that as priority 1.

If he can set up either false alarms on some sort of remote switch, that would also be useful, but not critical. Is there anything else we needed that we could nick from the outside?

The plan is still mostly to rely on the skill and such to get him physically to the server room for the download.

Given the timeframe, sending him after IDs or creating new system tricks has a very real risk of his not being available for the actual run.

But it sounds like you want to keep him in the meat until you complete the insertion.

My thoughts on plan are as follows:
- We take out the camera with a view of the loading bay well in advance
- We ambush the waste van, using a jammer to keep them from calling out and using my Lonestar drone to get them to stop
- We take them someplace semi secure and bind them with their hands around a small bit of plastic explosive.  We explain that our intention is to do a quiet bit of theft that'll never be detected.  If we're successful, we release them with $1k a piece for their trouble.  If we're not successful, the timer will go off in two hours and release them.  And that if their medical plan is any good, there's at least a 50% chance that their hands will recover most of their function.  Then see what useful information they have to share to improve our odds of success.
- The J. can be present for those discussions and we can take her along for a ride in our van (on the grounds that we need her present for final negotiations when we leave and don't have time to drop her off and pick her up - would like her on ice if things go badly and to ensure we get paid
- We have our couple of joy girls to keep the guards distracted and not looking too closely at sensors
- Once we're in the bay, Toombs summons his spirit with orders to conceal & guard Noruas and I.  Some instructions for it to play look-out to find and keep the janitor busy would be good too.  We keep our heads down in the waste van while Toombs and St. V go in when the guard shows up to let them in.  They stick something in the door so we can get in.
- Once they're in, Noruas uses the camera as an entry point for decking and temporarily disables the door sensors and any cameras that seem safe to loop.
- We then head down and get into the server room.  Noruas does his decking while I plant the boxes.
- When the time is right, St. V. can "accidentally" spill some goop on their guard to get him to leave and go change.  They can then sneak us out in a couple of the waste containers.
- We drive out and go pick up the proper drivers and pay them off, then hang out with the Johnson until sunrise making sure we weren't detected, collect our credsticks and go on our merry way.

That plan sounds good to me!

Problem with said plan.  I haven't fully mapped out the matrix system yet so it might take a little longer than expected.

You don't need to fully map it out.  All we care about are the cameras and sensors.  (Doors would be nice, but I can probably handle those.)  If you go into the network at a camera point, then you'll already be amongst the cameras.  And those will route to a common feed with other sensors fairly quickly - they'd all need to be monitored in the security guy's office and at the front desk.  Whatever you can't get, we'll have to rely on my B&E skills and the spirit's stealth + the distraction to keep us from being picked up.  We might be able to fry another camera or two as well if necessary.  It's not bullet proof, but I'm not sure we have an alternative.

The nice thing about being a decker rather than a mage is if you take a bit of stun, we can throw a stim patch on you and it won't hurt too much.  And because the paydata is on an isolated server, whatever you trigger when doing the cameras won't impact the security level of the isolated server - when you're connected to that, it'll be starting from zero again.

I can agree with that plan. I'm just a little concerned if they decide to check our ID's and they notice that Mr. Tadakashi is not, in fact, a 65 year old Japanese male; instead played by the handsome and talented St. V.
The idea of me trying to play off switching from fem Ork to male Dwarf is... unsettling. But that's what Etiquette is good for. That and fast-talking.

To be honest, watching you and St. V fast-talk, bluff and otherwise navigate your way is the part of this run I'm looking forward to the most . . . :>

If you're agreed, wanna check into finding appropriate sized uniforms and faking the necessary badges.

Just get me an etiquette test, unless you're doing something really sharp looking. They won't stand up to really intense scrutiny (and don't have any value if you try to run them through a reader) but they're quickly available.

Toombs is going to go for decent uniforms, and see about getting both fake ID's, and some decent head shot photos of him & Velveteen. If you remember the sleeves you can get for government ID badges, he's going to use that and some glue to cover up authentic ID's while leaving the other info uncovered. See if we can palm them.
Also, I'm sure I can get someone to alter the photos just enough that if we drop them somewhere, Lonestar isn't going to have mug shots for the evening news. His photo is going to be shaved head & beard, different eye color and missing a few of the most recognizable scars. Maybe even whiten the teeth up a bit. Hell, it's fiction, right?
Etiquette 6 v TN 4; 1,4,3,2,2,3; 1 success.

St. V is confident he can do that without much of a problem.  Now whether or not he actually can is another story.

Is there a way that we can change the waste removal company's schedule so that some people with similar appearances are scheduled to stop at our location?  Or would that raise way to many suspicions at this point so close to the run?

Changing the schedule would mean decking.  That carries a risk of both exposure as well as putting Noruas out of commission.  We already know that there isn't a standard crew that goes, so the guards shouldn't be too surprised to see unfamiliar faces.  If we've got uniforms and semi-official looking ids, plus a bit of fast-talking, we should be ok.  (Says she who won't be standing in front of the armed guard showing id . . .

Toombs does manage to score some uniforms, matching in color and grimey-ness. The IDs he get are... rather sub-par. Maybe appropriate for scoring drinks at a bar. It may warrant some creative craft work (and plastic ID sleeves) to hide any issues.

We'll just have to make sure the IDs are as grimy as the suits so they are harder to read.

Ideally with something that looks really unpleasant to put your hands anywhere near.  An unpleasant odor wouldn't hurt either . . .

Unpleasant odors are my specialty! Stains are really more of a hobby.
Besides, I'm not going to be unarmed, I have a pencil. And a troll. Can't forget the troll.

Anyway, going to scum up the sleeves a little with an old addition I like to call "old pizza sauce, curry leavings, and sweaty socks" because that's what it is. Also going to strap them to my boots for a short walk, scuff them up a little bit. Fortunately, it's not exactly like the sleeves are expensive, so will be running "experiments" in parallel to get that perfect level of scum. Can't hand them a *completely* illegible card, just authentic.

Anyway, by the end we should have 4 "cards". 2 are fake ID's in case we need the proper info, with enough room to jam the actual cards in behind them in case there's just an RFID scanner on the real ones (makes life easy). Then a pair of empty authenticized sleeves with our mugs on the inside to cover the actual ID if they match up well enough to be used as-is.

BTW, I'd like to avoid bomb threats on the hostages/prisoners if we can. Our J should know where they are, so all we need to do is secure them, preferably to something that can knock them out again without killing them, like a Neurostun canister. Bombs & murder are... higher on the PD's priority list than a bunch of thieves.

I don't see an issue with threats.  It's going to take some sort of mixture of threats and bribes to get what we need in a timely fashion.  The intention of my proposed approach is to ensure that their interests become as aligned with our own as possible.  There's no need for real explosives to be involved.  A bit of clay or Plasticine will work just fine.   That said, if things go south, we're already going to be on the hook for trying to plant a bomb in the facility, so I'm not sure that the police will care that much about the fact we threatened to blow the hands off a few glorified garbage collectors.  In the end, the PD cares about what they'll get pressure from from the corps or from the news media.  Anything that neither of those care about won't make them work too hard.  Certainly I'm not comfortable with setting the J. up as a babysitter.  That's not her job.  She wants to be present for negotiations, but the whole purpose of hiring us is to avoid getting her own hands dirty.

Didn't say babysitter, just "can cut them loose (later) if things go south."

If things go south, I expect she'd be busy cutting off loose ends - them included.  However, agree there are alternate mechanisms of letting them go.

Are you going to acquire the "equipment" for our distraction?

Right. Would that be another Etiquette test, or can we just deduct the joygirls' pay from the expense account?

Joy girls have an availability of 2, so rally no test required.

       front
      +-----+
    __|     |__
D          2
      |     |
    O |     |1 V
      |     |
      +-----+

This is what I have pictured in terms of the set-up of the van:
D = Drone
O = Orc (up against van, hands behind head)
1 = 1st employee, held up against van by St. V
V = St. V, being very diplomatic, not terribly concerned about the p-shooter pointed his way
2 = 2nd employee, small handgun pointed at St. V

Why doesn't the drone have line-of-sight on #2 through the driver's side door?

Because you started out behind it. You can circle around, but then you have to get closer (instead of behind as far as you want down the road, you have to be acros the road. And the road is much longer than it is wide.) You can do it, no issues, I just want to be sure you're aware of the situation.

My intention had actually been to pull in front of the van.  And I assumed I'd moved closer to the door when it opened.  So yes, I'm happy to move to the position shown in the diagram.  (I thought I'd already indicated that was my intention before I'd chambered the round to convince everyone I was serious.)

Toombs will approach the truck from St V's side so he can help the troll secure the captives when they submit. Drone's fine on its own.

Toombs, if you're *good* with stealth and want to try picking his keycard and dropping it by the elevator, that would be a nice touch, but not worth risking otherwise.  Having St. V look like he was going to knock a barrel over or something would likely give you a distraction bonus.  And the plus there is that if I lock the elevator and he doesn't have a key-card, you guys will all have to sit tight until someone comes to let you in - which gives Toombs a chance to sit down for a "rest" to do a quick astral sweep of the place and see who's hanging out where - something we probably should have done on the drive in, but oh well.

St. V, I'm assuming stealth isn't your strong point, but if it is, feel free to pipe up.

St. V isn't completely helpless with stealth, although it definitely isn't his strongest asset.  He probably wouldn't think to swipe the guy's card on the fly like that on his own though, so right now he is just loading up the barrels and observing.  However, if the guy's keycard is on a string or something, St. V does have a woodcarving knife conveniently located in his thumb...

Toombs is not experienced enough in Stealth to nick things. That's why I was so pleased to be on the distraction team - I actually invested social skills :)

Once we hear from the J, I figure the next step is to figure out where the team came from - so we can get a sense of how they're probably going to leave.  I can use my drone to scout for nearby warm vehicles that weren't around on previous sweeps.  If Noruas is up to it, he can deck in again and check the history of some of the camera feeds to see how they entered the facility.

If the J confirms that the second team is grabbing the same thing we were after, then I just make my way as quick as I can to the director's office to plant the boxes and get back.  Noruas can watch the camera feeds and make sure I don't run into the janitor or anyone else.  (And if Toombs can do an astral sweep once he's locked in the elevator, so much the better.)

Noruas can unloop the feeds (if they're not set to do that automatically) and, if he wants, wipe/corrupt any images that shows us and I release the elevator.  We keep tabs on the other team.  When they make it to their vehicle, my drone can fill them full of gel rounds before they get in, we drive by & pick them up with the paydata and get our cash.

Of course, it won't go as smoothly as that, but it's the most low-risk plan I can come up with.  Other ideas?

BTW: Does Noruas have a respirator?  Or is there any spare respiratory gear in the van?

Maybe the new car in the lot was theirs and one or more of the guards is in on it.  Could have let them in the back door and is keeping watch for them out of sight of the cameras.  They didn't fly in at the mini helicopter pad, did they?


St. V has a respirator with his trunk full of gear, which he was looking over in Copperhead's van right before they talked to Blake.  He may or may not have taken it out since then.  He would have taken it out if they really needed the room, but would have otherwise kept it handy if possible.  Along with his datajack, flare compression, sound dampening, and finger-knife, the things St. V has on him right now are stated here:

Nope, no respirator.  I was planning on bringing one, but I couldn't get a hold of that much weed in such a short time, so I gave up on bringing the related equipment with me.

Which reminds me...I think I'll post what I need to say in the other thread to make it official.

New care in the lot is certainly one possibility, though it's a nicer car than I'd expect for most runners.  Paying off a guard would certainly explain how they weren't too concerned about being caught on camera.  I'll certainly be looking for residual heat there first.  If they have enough funding to fly in on a chopper and not get noticed, we're in *deep* trouble :>

I'd like the respirator up here because that way if a guard shows up upstairs to help fix the elevator and isn't willing to leave in a timely manner, Noruas can detonate one of my "barf grenades", making it look like it's coming from the van or something.  He can obviously sit in the van while it goes off, but it'd be best if he could leave the van again once the guard decides that hanging out in a room where a toxic waste van is spewing a cloud that makes him want to puke is a bad idea.  I could lend Noruas mine, but that would be a difficult thing for me to do IC - respirator & goggles hide my rather identifiable face.


I'm hoping that there might be an extra respirator or suit in the van, given that it's a toxic waste transport van.

I'm assuming that your suits have both a respirator and a self-contained breathing supply, so that if you end up spilling something, you're relatively safe.

BTW - I'm aware that the plan I outlined is somewhat boring for some of the players and I'm not trying to hog the fun.  It's just what seems to make sense from my view of our situation.  I'm a B&E specialist, don't have a guard looking over my shoulder that we're supposed to leave unaware of our activities and now have a camera-clear path to where we need to go.  Alternate opinions welcome.  And of course, fun is likely to materialize when the plan goes to drek . . .

Just outta curiosity here, as long as the target doesn't know the file was accessed everything is game?  Does that include the meaning of US not accessing the file or anyone in general?  Otherwise we could frame the other team to take the fall.

And what exactly is maintaining secrecy?  In this case, another team has already blown that surprise away, so do we still get the extra 15,000¥ even if we didn't tell anyone?

I had clarified what secrecy meant and essentially it means that the next morning, the security team doesn't realize anything's gone down.  Essentially, the company shouldn't know the file was stolen, or even possibly stolen, at all.  (Presumably they could make changes, move up release dates or take other actions that reduce the value of the data if they know a competitor has their hands on it.  If the other team screws up, then we could argue for getting paid regardless, but it wouldn't be guaranteed.  But if we do anything to get the other team caught, we'd definitely kiss the bonus good-bye.

If St. V's respirator is along for the mission, it would be in Copperhead's vehicle and not the chemical vehicle.  Guess we'll have to hope the chemical vehicle came with some after all.

Also, I'm not too worried about you (Copperhead) hogging all the fun.  This is an interesting puzzle to try and figure out, even if St. V isn't making a lot of skill rolls. ;)  Besides, like you said, things are bound to go wrong eventually.

Not sure how exactly the payouts will be determined either, Noruas.  I'll leave that to Papa Bear.  Although for metagame reasons I will be surprised if we see any more money even if we do succeed.  I plan to find out though!  Edit: Copperhead's explanation was better.

So, what do we do if the people walked in from the surrounding wilds and didn't drive at all?  Might be hard to shoot them down and pick them up if they run for the trees.  They could have other team members elsewhere too.

One of the reasons the J's locked in the van is to improve the odds of a payout :>  (And reduce the odds of a double-cross...)

There's certainly a risk of losing them when they go in the forest, though my drone's sensors are decent and if I'm tracking them as they go, it'd be pretty hard for them to lose me - especially if they don't realize they're being tracked.  Biggest risk is if the shaman summons a spirit to conceal them once they're in the forest.  So if she tries to summon anything, I'll probably shoot her.  That's also one of the reasons I want to identify the vehicle they arrived in.  That might be hard to confirm, but if we get a couple of possibles and we see what direction they're heading in, we will hopefully get a pretty good sense.

I can drop quite a few people pretty quickly - generally 3 x 6-round MMG bursts per combat turn, with a -2 for aiming & smart link.  With scope, they'll look at short range, but I'll be past the maximum range of their weapons.  So the only real question is how much of a disturbance I make and whether we can keep track of the decker.

I'll certainly be on the lookout for people in camera blind-spots when I'm heading to and from the director's office.  A guy with a gun standing beside a near-by vehicle would be ideal - we'd know exactly where they're going :>

BB - are any of the cameras out of commission, and if so, can we figure out what areas of the complex they cover?

Toombs won't need a rebreather, he spent a shitload of time barfing his way through college.
This also has nothing to do with him being too poor to afford a rebreather.

IMO there is no guarantee that the second party is grabbing the file we need. If we can drop them with a drone, and still sneak Noruas in to grab the file we need, more's the better. Furthermore, I'm sure Noruas is skilled enough to pick up and destroy any datatrail the second decker might leave, which would give us a better chance of picking up that "no trace" bonus.

Also, when we catch the other party, I'm trying to figure out what we should do with them. Obviously we will want to check what file they were stealing, but I'm not sure what we should do with the runners. Running under the assumption they are after the same thing we are, way I see it we have 2 options:
we can wipe the deck and send them on their merry, getting another party very pissed at us
OR
we can tell the J they were after something else, send them on their merry and maybe get a favor or some street cred out of it.
Though it's pretty obvious to me that we would have to go through the trouble of recovering them after Copper drops them, and exfiltrate them safely. That would be somewhat challenging with the chem truck, but not impossible considering they are making their own way out of the facility proper.

Toombs should be wearing his suit, so he should be fine.

Either the J will know they're after the same file or she won't.  My guess is she'll know, but we'll see.

If she *doesn't* know, it'd be darn useful to have someone upstairs watching the monitor while Noruas and I go do our stuff.  So my thought is to get you guys into the elevator and stick a gas grenade in the shaft.  The two of you should be ok with your suits, but the guard should go nighty-night.  We can crack the garage door a bit to air things out once the elevator reaches the main floor.  After we're done our work, you can wake him up with a stim patch and explain that one of the seals on a canister must have been loose and that he should take it easy for the rest of the night.

That will free up all 4 of us to work.  Toombs can man the cameras and run quick astral scans of relevant places as time allows.  St. V can go pick up the bodies of the runners once the drone drops them and stick them in our truck.  It means we'll be on-site a little longer than I'd hoped.  We'll need to move relatively fast before the guards pick up on the fact that their buddy isn't responding.

Noruas and I can make our way to the director's office while we're waiting for the other team to leave.  Once they do leave, I can drop them and then get Noruas down to the computer room to do his thing.  St. V can head out and bring the bodies to the back of the truck.  Biggest risk is that the first rigger might have made enough of a mess that there'll be a bunch of ice waiting when Noruas decks in.

In terms of what we do with the other party, I'd say we check what file they've got.  If it's the same one, then presumably our J won't want'em to have it, so we wipe their deck.  If it's different, we leave it be.  In either case, we check 'em into a coffin motel and leave a note saying "sorry for the inconvenience".  They'll be a tad embarrassed over having been taken out, but it'll be hard for them to have hard feelings.  We could've killed them or stole their stuff.  Getting them out clean with nothing worse than a headache should boost our rep rather than hurt it.

Shouldn't be much of an issue getting them out in the truck if our guard is out cold.  We can just stick them in the back with barrels.  I doubt he'll feel up to taking inventory when we wake him up.

If their J doesn't get the data he was after, then presume he was in some sort of competition or something with our J.  She wins, he loses.  She had better taste in runners.  Shouldn't be much long-term fallout.

With my last post, I was hoping the guard would try to go up in the elevator alone, that way he would either get stuck by himself, and/or we wouldn't have to worry about gas masks to knock him out.  No guarantees the guard is cooperative though.

As for when we catch the other crew when our entire plan goes off without a hitch, then we could always negotiate with them.  Or J. is present.  If we steal their info, or copy it if it is a different file, maybe the J. would be willing to pay them.  A fraction of what they were going to be paid, of course.  But that is a much fairer deal than they should ever expect, which would leave them with no fewer hurt feelings, possibly give us some new contacts, and give or J a better reputation and some new potential employees, as well as maybe tip us off on who was working against us.  Even with all that, we may still want to leave them in a coffin motel at the end so that they don't warn anyone too soon.

Even if the elevator doesn't work, the guard can still take the stairs...I'm pretty sure Copperhead merely disabled the elevator, and not made it into a trap.

Noruas is correct that the elevator isn't currently rigged as a trap.  However, I could do that pretty easily - if I had warning.  Bigger issue is that if he's jammed in the elevator, you guys are stuck unless Noruas opens doors for you, and I wouldn't count on that.  There's a limit to how long he can get away with being in the system.  (Unless you've got some other way of bypassing maglocks?).  Doors will all be locked and no way for me to get to you or you to get to me with a wide awake guard in an elevator with no barrels to act as an excuse for him getting knocked out.

Waking up the other team to grill or negotiate with is possible, though I'd be surprised if the J. would cough up cash for them.  Key thing for now is - we don't kill them and we take them with us.  We can then discuss with the J. what she wants to do.

I still think our best bet is to gas the guard while all three of you are in the elevator.  And that's an option whether decide to jam you in the elevator first or not.  You can do a quick inspection on your suit and Toombs to verify that you've got a respirator and the suit seems secure.  You can even have him breath at the elevator vent for "fresher" air when he starts to feel whoozy.  By the time the elevator gets up, he should be out and you guys should be fine.  We can even crack the garage door a bit to help the gas dissipate once you guys are

Ok, that makes sense.  Remember that St. V has his shock gloves too if we need to knock him out some other way in a hurry.  Probably harder to explain away than gas though.

A tad :>.  Plus presumably you'd have to unzip your suit to expose the gloves.

Might be good to follow up your comment with "unless there's some you want us to bring back up?".  If he says 'no', then I need to get the gas going quickly and keep the doors from closing so we can still use the 'canister leak' excuse.  If he says "yes", then of course you'll need him to point out which ones to move.

That is something he would have wanted to know before the guard goes anyway, so good call.  I edited my last post to include it and help streamline dialogue posts.

You can take the stairs if you wish, however:
- Right now neither Noruas nor myself can monitor the cameras to tell you who's in the hallway if the director or security guard start wandering or if the other team come out or even if the janitor moves to the basement.  And getting into a fire fight in the hallway isn't a good plan given the close proximity of the computer space to the security guy's offices.  If you can take the other team out totally quietly, that'd be great (maybe with a gas grenade?), but otherwise, not sure what you can do in the hall.
- I figure 4 turns for the cars to get to the top and the goons to get out.  2 turns for me dispatch them, 1-2 turns for clean-up and jack out, then another 3-4 turns to open the door and re-enable the elevator.  So 30 seconds or so.  I doubt you'd get through the airlock in that amount of time.
- I *really* need someone to phone the front desk and provide cover for the bodies I'm about to leave in front of the building.  They've already broken through the front gate, so it's not like I can knock them out and we drive both cars away and no-one notices.  (Though if they park somewhere where I can take them out quietly and we figure we can put the gate back together, then that'd be a nice couple of cars to have . . .)

Someone else will have to make that phone call.  I haven't found the phone connection yet.

@Noruas: No worries.  Hope you're having fun :>

The good news is if we can capture the other decker, you might not have to worry about the protected system - which is good because I expect a bunch of security measures will be going off soon.

My biggest fear is that the decker and shaman will be standing in the middle of the hall when the security chief and or director run out of their office because of the commotion outside.  So if you have the power to make that not happen, do that.  (Actually, Toombs, that might not be a bad last service for your spirit - or a good service for a new one - keep the two security guys downstairs stuck in their offices via accidents/confusion for the next several minutes.  You've seen both, so should be able to convey their signatures sufficiently.  We just don't want anything obviously magical.)

Toombs/St V, when you're on the phone, my recommendation is to call the front desk and indicate that you expect 4-8 subjects with heavy weapons headed for the reception area.  We want to provide lots of incentive for them to say "yes" to "shall our drone engage?" without feeling they ought to check things out with the director or something.  Then tell them to take immediate cover (so they don't think they have time to run anywhere) and to remain on the line.  That way you can give them the all clear before they go running off to the armory.

Once this team is taken out, you might also suggest that the front desk guards should tell their security director to expect an invoice :>  It'll make our "assistance" more believable and may get us some extra revenue if Noruas thinks he can pull off a realistic invoice and account link.

Oh, and what's a NightWind?

There's a Eurocar Westwind which is an unarmored sports car ($57k) or a Mitsubishi Nightsky which is a limo (2 armor, $171k)

I'm fine if you make up a new model name and fully understand these may not be stock models, just trying to get a rough sense of what they're equivalent to - cost, likely armor, doors, seating capacity, etc.

Thank you, Westwind. I knew it sounded wrong when I wrote it :P

Moving this out of the IC thread:



6 seconds wouldn't be reasonable for dispersal in non-windy conditions, so I'm assuming it must neutralize on exposure to air.

That's the rule for gas grenades regardless of payload, not a specific chemical. So I feel comfortable saying, the rule is there for game balance more than anything.

Fair enough.  So we'll stick with "about a minute" for Neuro-stun grenades and say that the stun damage from the gas doesn't cross over into physical once you're out (presuming no secondary effects from where you happen to drop unconscious :>)

I'm just curious here...but let's say that I somehow got some access to the system, is there anything in particular you guys want me to do or get besides access codes to doors?  Should I set off alarms in the whole building?  BTW, it will take quite some time to undo all the video looping, so any requests?

We definitely *don't* want alarms in the building.  We want everyone thinking that stuff in the building is totally kosher.  We get an extra $60k if this goes down quietly.

It'd be nice to know where the second runner team is.  If the guards decide to ignore the "was there anything in the parking lot", then, we could in theory, knock them out, quietly drive their vehicles away and repair the gate.  But I'm thinking that's a stretch.  So I think we're best to unloop the video in front of the garage.  Unfortunately that's likely to make the other guards try to get our guard on the line to go check what's happening.

The key thing is to not give anyone any suspicion that anyone's breached the walls and therefore still let them think that their data is safe.

Could always try to get info on who is in charge of this place.  Enough data so that we can dig into their histories later can always be potentially useful.  Money flow can also be telling.

I like that your plan includes repairing a gate. That may be the first time I've ever heard a Shadowrunner include that in a plan.

How often have you paid 60k for no-one noticing and then had someone else bust down the gate? :>

Well there was that one time I caused something similar, after the party had been approached by "Agent Chuck Finley" of the UCAS FBI. Apparently this was one of my crowning achievements in running Shadowrun, as I had an absolutely spot-on impression of Bruce Campbell going the entire time. It was great.

Hey White Duck, aside from asking the standard questions regarding fees, feel free to ask for pictures and information of this supposed 'son' our dear J is talking about.  Get lots of details on his known locations, haunts that he may visit, and anything else known about the crew (like surveillance of the group in the middle of their heist, in case we have to worry about them).  Find out what's on the chips (if you can) to know how we are able to identify them.  Also ask about how far ahead of a window these guys have on us.

GREAT input. I definitely got you there. Usual protocol before the Johnson shares more information, potentially putting themselves at risk with the pitch, is to make sure payment is clear. I mean, that's just my experience anyway.

However, the suggested questions for when we get down to the details are great. Anyone else have something I should have Duck ask about?

My questions:
- What is meant by "silent"?  No body count?  No police involvement?  Nothing that makes the news?  It's going to be hard to learn much without reaching out to our networks . . .  (Not that Copperhead has much of one :>)
- If someone's going to betray to steal something and bring a bunch of runners, odds are they've already got a buyer.  What makes him think the chips are still in his employee's hands?  Or for that matter, still in Seattle?  If we've got to go after the buyer rather than his employee, costs could go up.
- Who are the likely buyers?  (He may balk at this as he wouldn't want to disclose who we might sell them to ourselves, but it's worth asking.  It'll give us an idea of the level of trust he has in us too)
- What sort of defense did the thieves manage to survive?  I'm interested in details on the thieves as well as the employee as there's no guarantee the chips remain with him.
- Is Urian sure the employee was acting of his own free will - not blackmailed, threatened, etc.?
- How do we contact them if/when we have questions or things go off the rails?
- Might not be a bad idea to propose an alternate pick-up location, but that might be better to raise later.  Easier to argue for it when we've got the chips and can make up something about we don't believe the meeting location was safe.
- Would be good to know why Urian chose to meet is out here
- Should show them both the pictures Noruas took and ask if they recognize the individual or are aware that he was following Roxanne.

As an aside, my usual approach is to negotiate payment after I know the details - and have been able to highlight professionalism and/or increased risks or other costs that justify boosting the price.  But you're the one in the room.  I'm just jotting down license plates :>

Maybe ask a little something about Roxanne?  Like why she chose us over other runners at the other bar.  Although the obvious reason is PLOT.

She liked my face . . . ;>

So How'd I do there? I think I managed to have Duck touch on everyone's main concerns and simultaneously upsell the group. An advance on an overall payout of 100,000¥ will really work out for us if he gives us a percentage.

I put a checklist below with commentary for you folks pertaining to when I fit the questions in-
- What is meant by "silent"?  No body count?  No police involvement?  Nothing that makes the news?  It's going to be hard to learn much without reaching out to our networks . . .  (Not that Copperhead has much of one :>)

- If someone's going to betray to steal something and bring a bunch of runners, odds are they've already got a buyer.  What makes him think the chips are still in his employee's hands?  Or for that matter, still in Seattle?  If we've got to go after the buyer rather than his employee, costs could go up.

- Who are the likely buyers?  (He may balk at this as he wouldn't want to disclose who we might sell them to ourselves, but it's worth asking.  It'll give us an idea of the level of trust he has in us too)
Would rather not ask that, since he's already given us his name, which means we can look him up for ourselves. I did work in some assessment of his trust when I had Duck ask about the infiltration and theft itself, though.

- What sort of defense did the thieves manage to survive?  I'm interested in details on the thieves as well as the employee as there's no guarantee the chips remain with him.

- Is Urian sure the employee was acting of his own free will - not blackmailed, threatened, etc.?
It seems a lot more like a betrayal from his tonality, IE "The one who turned against me was like a son." However, it's not unreasonable to assume that this is a possibility even if the employer doesn't seem to think so himself. We should investigate that independently, though, and it may be revealed to be not the case if Manes trusts us enough to tell us how the theft was done.

- How do we contact them if/when we have questions or things go off the rails?
Going to get to this one after Manes responds with details. We haven't yet accepted the job, technically, so I'm presuming I have the permission to accept on behalf of those not present? Duck knows comms are out/jammed from the cessation of the drone's movement, but it would be a bad show of face if he seemed indecisive.

- Might not be a bad idea to propose an alternate pick-up location, but that might be better to raise later.  Easier to argue for it when we've got the chips and can make up something about we don't believe the meeting location was safe.
That's a fantastic idea, and we should most definitely do that. White Duck has enough experience to know that sometimes a prearranged meeting at a set location can turn into an ambush. However, I would suggest that we do a last-minute change in location on them- if it's an ambush, let them think we'll be walking into it. They want the chips badly enough to pay a starting offer of 100k, they'll want them badly enough to meet up with them at some diner located near an Ork Underground entrance. :)
However, if Manes plans on betraying us then and gets belligerent enough to try to call the deal off or come after us, we'll at least see it coming. We could recoup our losses by fencing off the chips, if that'd be the case, which is the worst-case scenario.

- Would be good to know why Urian chose to meet is out here
Well, I noticed a severe lack of posers and surveillance countermeasures already in-place. If it's offered on-site, it's probably the location. We should remember this place in case we want to use it for secure meetings ourselves on other runs. Maybe Nouras can find some info? Either way, why he chose this place seems clear to me, and it's just as good as anywhere. If it's a front for something, we can do some digging, but I can't think of a really good reason to risk asking the client. He may mention it in passing in the next post.

- Should show them both the pictures Noruas took and ask if they recognize the individual or are aware that he was following Roxanne.

- As an aside, my usual approach is to negotiate payment after I know the details - and have been able to highlight professionalism and/or increased risks or other costs that justify boosting the price.  But you're the one in the room.  I'm just jotting down license plates.

That's also a reasonable way of doing things, however, since I'm trying to take advantage of Duck's Bargaining skills, it helps to have an initial offer to start out so it'll qualify. It really just depends on circumstance for him.

@Cadeuces
I'm curious about that myself, but it seems like the setup is indeed PLOT. Has Papa Bear worked character backstories/contacts into any of the modules so far?

I wouldn't have phrased it as an advance - rather unusual additional expenses.  If we have to jet to Hong Kong, I don't want the price coming out of our $300 K.

Buyers can't be looked up from his name.  Buyers are dependent on what's on the chips and may give us an idea of where to start looking.

Also, I presume he's going to give us a few more starting points to go from than "find me 3 chips that I won't describe and could be anywhere in the world by now" . . .

Would be good to know who our goon's employer is.  Also, what sort of action (if any) we should take with respect to them or what risk they might present.

He still hasn't given us much to go on in terms of where to start looking, nor how to recognize the chips are the ones he wants.

Still waiting for a 'yes, this is a good price. We're in' :P

Wanna make sure we get the questions answered before you can trigger the ninjas ;>

Plus if we have to worry about Aztechnology zombies or something, that might influence the negotiations a bit too . . .

You're thinking of First Run. But that's third edition, so it's a long way off.

I prefer never to underestimate the potential for cyber-zombies.  Or ninjas.  Or general corporate skulduggery . . . ;>

Will get this in later today, boss. Been working the past couple of days.

No issue at all. Just responding to Copperhead.

Agree it's reasonable they wouldn't share full details of how we're going to find things, but some idea of what's involved would be relevant for pricing, as would an idea of expectation for travel.  And certainly who the other player(s) that we should expect to encounter.

Don't forget to probe more on our shadow guy.  It would be good to know if other players are expected, who they are and how assertive we can/should be in dealing with them.

I'll leave that info up to White Duck, since it deals more with negotiating type stuff, and White Duck is taking the lead during this negotiation.  Caduceus doesn't want to step on his toes. ;)

But yes, that info would be handy to have.

Bear in mind also, Copperhead can't communicate with the inside team. So even if he had cause to ask, you can't use it in determining how to respond to current events.

Likewise, Caduceus would probably be much more concerned about getting answers about the shadow guy if he knew he was outside the building right now.  The cape guys too, whoever they are.  But Caduceus has no clue they are even present.  He just knows that the room they are in with the Johnson appears to be safe and secluded at the moment.

I wouldn't worry about the cape guys.  Probably just slummers.  Even not knowing the shadow dude is outside, you'd probably want a bit more info than the answer that's been given so far - the man is inconsequential but the employer may be a threat.  It'd be reasonable to follow up who the employer is, what kind of threat it is and what sort of actions we might reasonably be able to take.

On the off chance the guy ends up being a mage or something, we may want to ward a barrier to keep between him and us while we interrogate him.  Or at least a barrier to keep him astrally contained.

Sounds like a good idea.  Can you do the warding Caduceus?


But I still think that after stripping him of all his stuff and killing some of his senses, we should question him somewhere private and NOT in Copperhead's vehicle.  This is just in case the team is against killing him after the interrogation and decides to let him go.  By showing him that we operate out of a certain vehicle, we are leaving it to chance that he might come back later to cause trouble.  I would rather like to leave as little clues as possible regarding our identities.

<orange>If he's magically active, we can ward.  If not, no need.  If he's not magically active, probably easiest to do the interrogation in the van.  He'll go unconscious again about 10 minutes after we stim him awake (and take some physical damage in the process).  So long as he's blindfolded, he won't be able to pick up on much.  Challenge with taking him outside is if he's got DocWagon or a head-phone, it's hard to blcok those without attracting a lot of attention - Dropping everyone's cell calls in a 1km radius tends to make you unpopular with the locals and LoneStar.  And if you don't crank the jamming to max, there's a risk the signal will get through.

Also, we've got sub-vocal mikes, so unless the guy has audio enhancements (which we'll presumably pick up with the astral scan), we should be fine to talk to each other without him hearing us.

Yeah, Caduceus can do warding if necessary.  He brings basic warding supplies with him in his satchel bag.  I believe White Duck mentioned that his guy has astral sight as well, so I think he technically can as well since astral sight is the only prerequisite from a rules standpoint.  Don't know if he knows from an IC perspective. (Although Caduceus would be willing to teach him the basics sometime if he doesn't already know.)

As long as we are parked and the guy stays blindfolded, I think the risk of him finding out too much about us is pretty low.  He may already know Copperhead drives a camper anyway.  And if he does have enhances hearing, I have a mind link spell we can use if needed.  I have a thought-probing spell too that we may want to utilize if he doesn't cooperate.

Didn't catch the note that our target was magically active.  That does add a bit of complication.  However, he'll be at a +3 target number.  If White Duck can devote his spell pool to blocking successes, that would be good.  Biggest issue is elementals.  If he's got a couple of force 6 elementals on standby, it doesn't really matter how well drugged he is or what sort of headache he has or even how well warded the van is, he can summon them.  The good news is that it's an exclusive complex action to summon.  So long as White Duck is keeping an eye on him in the astral, we can cause sufficient pain/distraction to keep him from reaching out.  But it does mean he'll need to be watched continuously from the astral by White Duck while he's conscious.

I meant White Duck has astral sight, not the creeper.  We don't know yet if our prisoner has astral sight, etc.

Ah, right.  Yes, we're blessed with two party members with astral sight, which is quite handy.

Anyhow, before we interrogate the fellow, probably best to crack his phone.  No point wasting his limited awake time getting answers to questions we can find other ways.  Plus, it'll let us know more quickly if he decides to lie to us.

It may make sense to save the healing until after he's awake.  As a bit of a "good cop" aspect as well as to make clear he's faced with magic users.

Astral sight AND verbal interrogation at 4. I can good cop it up all day.

After we're finished grilling him, I say we let him phone the orc and say that she and her boss left by chopper.  If the orc says "thanks, now frag off", then this dude's of no more use.  If the orc says "come to location such and such, I've got more work for ya", then he's probably worth holding on to.  In the first case, my leaning is to send him on his way with 100 nuyen and instructions to call us if the orc calls him again, with the caveat that if we learn he hasn't, the next time he gets shot while walking down the street, it won't be a stun round.  (Yeah, I know we don't have to pay the dude, but he's street trash and we messed him up pretty good and $100 is peanuts when compared to the money for this run.  Plus a little honey never hurts when building rep.)

Sounds good to me!

Hmm, actually, I think we may get a better result if we bug his phone during the interrogation, ask him a few more inane questions while we compromise his personal privacy, then cut him loose with a bunch of penises drawn on his face. Sure, drawing a bunch of penises on his face seems unrelated, and maybe it is, but it *would* be quite hilarious to my still-young and somewhat juvenile Ducky-Poo.

Anyway, if his phone's bugged unwittingly, he's less likely to tip off Junior. If we bribe him, we're paying for the same guy who just spilled the beans on his old employer, so he can't exactly be trusted for subtlety and discretion.

If we cut him loose, he'll either throw the phone in the sewer and run (if he's got any brains, which seems unlikely) or he'll call the orc and blather about what we did to him.  I don't see either of those things as being in our interest.

I don't object to bugging his phone, but I don't have the necessary hardware.  And to be honest, I'm not sure the gaming system supports the notion.  Listening in on calls is done by hacking in real-time, though I guess in theory Noruas could try to install an agent that would route a copy of any calls to that number to a number of our choosing - though agents get introduced in a later release.  presumably he already has all the device details needed to make that happen.  From a practical perspective, I'm not sure how you'd get a bug into a mobile device anyhow.  Unless you replace the guts of the phone with a compromised version for that specific device model (which I'm sure the NSA has perfected), I'm not sure you could pull it off.

I'm ok with drawing penises on faces, but I think it'd be more fun if it was florescent tattoos and the target was our cape-wearing orc friend.

Oh yeah, we *have* to get the chance to beat the smithereens out of that guy at some point. I just hypothesize that this mook might be dumb enough to not know his phone was tapped and keep using it. If he stays in Junior's employ, it could tip us off to something vital going on down the line.

Good point on whether or not the system permits it. I'm used to playing VERY late edition SR3, and there's all sorts of cool stuff to do in those editions, but I'm not certain if that kind of surveillance equipment is available/exists yet in the setting as it was.

It's not his phone - he was given it.  And we've just given him incentive to have nothing to do with it - or the Orc.  It's not like they have a deep relationship (provided what he's telling us is true.)

I played SR3 too, and I remember phone taps from the matrix, but not taps you could install - at least not in a mobile.

We'll have to evaluate whether dealing with the Orc is appropriate or not.  If he's Junior, then presumably his dad is Senior, who's likely a powerful bigwig - hard to be an orc and get away with that sort of flash otherwise.  So we'll have to figure out whether the pleasure of messing him up is worth the heat that's likely to come from the dad.  I'd rather not be on a megacorp hit-list.  Especially one where someone senior at the corp has a personal interest in it.  That doesn't mean we can't cause him grief, just have to think carefully about what kind based on the ramifications.

I'm definitely not giving him his shoe back.

I thought I stripped him naked and tied him up?

I'm assuming he's naked - hard to threaten his gonads otherwise.  However, we can play it that you left his shoes on.  More effective to be almost naked and start losing the last protection you've got . . .

Ok, that clearly doesn't make sense....why would you strip someone close to naked leaving with only his shoes?  If you left him something, it would be his underwear.  And now that he's hog-tied, we'd only be able to cut off the underwear.

...But ok, we'll go with shoes since that's what Duck wrote.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:24, Sat 12 Dec 2015.

We'll just say his feet smelled really bad.

:D

I'm glad I'm jacked in then . . .

This guy seems like a bit of a red herring. I'll ask a couple more questions then Duck'll advise we cut him loose. Any burning must-ask questions you guys want me to ask before I do?

I'd just probe the killing and confirm that it's a bluff.  If it is, I say we stick him in a coffin hotel with an extra 50 Nuyen for his trouble along with a suggestion that his health would be better if neither we nor Junior saw or heard from him over the course of the next week or so.  And we should keep the phone.

I would suggest that if we do keep the phone, that we make sure it cannot be tracked, at least until we want it to.  Other than that, I say we sell the guy for parts for extra cash.

Copperhead won't sign off on killing the guy.  He's a SINless dude just trying to make a buck and had the misfortune of having the wrong employer.  Much more useful to acquire a contact with his ear to the street we might be able to use at some point in the future.

Agree re: the phone.  We'll keep it nicely wrapped in tinfoil until we have a need to use it.


P.S. Merry Christmas everyone!

Merry Xmas to you all.

Caduceus won't sign off on killing the guy either.  He is pretty much a pacifist, as his totem endorses. Which is why he has literally zero gun skills beyond "point and pull the trigger."  Strangely though, he does have a contact that might be handy if they ever do end up with a dead body...

@Copperhead: Definitely don't want him dead either. By get rid of, I meant just not having him in our van anymore:P

I am a bit fuzzy on what the current plan is.  Are we all going to Tee-Hee's place right now or just a few of us?  And is it still the middle of the night?

As far as contacts go, Caduceus has quite a few that he could start calling.  Is there anything you would like him to look into that you don't have your own contact for?

I think you're going off to the tea shop and checking out brawl games and anything else you can think of (and presumably mining your contacts while you're at it).  Presumably your activities are relatively low-risk so you shouldn't need much back-up.

The rest of us (all 3 :>) will head over to Tee Hee's.  Copperhead will keep watch from outside and send a toy or two in to the apartment with White Duck and Noruas.  Noruas will do his decking from Tee Hee's place (keeps his meat where we can watch it, it'll be convenient for decking into the security archives of the building to see if there's anything useful there.  White Duck will take a stab at seeing if there's anything useful the J missed.  (Copperhead will assist as best she can using her scorpion).  And once it's a reasonable time of day, I presume White Duck will check in with the neighbors and anyone else who might have some leads.  (And will presumably also call up his contacts).  Hopefully one or more of those paths knocks loose some actionable leads.  If appropriate, White Duck could also try chasing our boy on the astral, though I'm guessing that route's already been tried.

Ok, sounds good.  Caduceus will take his motorcycle then and start with his contacts, then head to the store when it opens.  There is probably an easy way for him to get a picture of Tee-Hee onto his pocket secretary, right?

Would Noruas have passed along the information he found about Dr. Hendrix?  And if so, would you like me to have Caduceus reach out to his professor contact and see if a meeting can be set up?

I think it's fair to say we'll be sharing what we find at intervals.  Unless Papa rules there's some sort of timing dependency that matters, I think it's fine for you to presume you've got the information and are pursuing an additional lead.  Only question on that one is that you might want to have back-up.  Chances of anyone showing up at the tea shop are slim.  Chances of someone showing up at the door of a techie our friend had deep ties to are bigger.  And who knows, maybe Hendrix was even an instigator.  Doesn't mean you can't go on your own, just be aware of the risks.

I'd show the tea lady the image of Hendrix too.

When you're done there and we're done with the landlord, I'd say we meet up and chat with him.


Papa, just to confirm, Noruas got *nothing* new on TeeHee, the Johnsons, the Johnson's company, Junior (or senior) or his company or Hendrix?

Good idea.  I'll try that next if what I just posted doesn't pan out.

I don't see where he actually said he tried to do that, only that he plugged in.

If he wants to say that he did try to do more searching, he can throw some dice and we can insert that retroactively. The great thing about matrix searches is he can do a lot of work fast.

I don't think he said what he was searching for at all.  What did you assume he was looking for?

My bad. I had no idea what I was searching for.  I just thought that from BB's description I had come up empty-handed.

Copperhead had given some suggestions, but you're welcome to dig into whatever you like.  In general, just say what you're looking for and give an idea of how much effort you're putting into it (and sometimes how quietly you are exploring).  Papa will let you know how many rolls he wants (or may even roll for you).

Alright.  Thanks.

That is true; unless you say otherwise, I assume you're doing the equivalent of a google search. If you're digging deep, you'll need to tell me where you're scouring for data, and how noisy you're willing to be.

I think when Caduceus gets a good opportunity, he will discretely secure his motorcycle and head back to Copperhead's vehicle.  That way he will have a safe spot to stay in case he needs to follow Hendrix while astral projecting.

Presume we're (you're) going to talk to him first, then if he seems suspicious, look at following him?

Oh.  I can, but I thought we would just follow him and see where he goes first.  Especially after Caduceus's contact implied that he kind of fell off the grid.

Also, what is something he could ask Hendrix that would lead them to Tee-hee without tipping them off that we're on their trail?  (I've only thought about it for about 10 seconds so far, but I'm not thinking of anything promising.)

I'm open to following him, but if he's a dead lead, it'd be better to not waste too much time on him.  I think Tee Hee know's he's being looked for.  You don't steal multi-million dollar chip prototypes and then plan to go have a picnic in the local park.  In fact, it could well be in our interest for him *to* tip Tee-Hee off, so long as we're listening into the conversation and can trace where it's to.  Without shaking the tree a bit, the odds of our mark reaching out to Tee Hee in a useful timeframe are slim.  The reason they beat the bushes is to make the rabbit run . . .

So the real question is what's the ideal environment to ask our questions.  Encounter on the street, grabbing him and taking him for a "drive" or talking or breaking our way into his apartment are all possible and have varying pros and cons.  This neighborhood is a bit dicer to pull a daylight kidnapping in and as a former college professor, he's a tad riskier fellow to do it with.  My leaning would be to talk to him on the street.  If he bolts, we can decide to either tail him or take him down and grab him for questioning.

Why not just tail him home? If he suspects nothing is wrong, we can simply go up to his door and knock. Approaching him on the street may get the wrong reaction. My logic? I live in Houston, which can be a pretty dangerous place. Any time a stranger approaches me on the street or wherever, I tend to get very cautious and keep my distance, especially since open carry became legal here. Someone at my door, however, especially if it's a decent hour, my guard is lowered. If he doesn't notice the tail and he gets to his apartment, it opens up a lot of options for us in both investigation potential and approach strategy. I can probably get lucky enough with my rolls to get Duck through- he'd make a damned good travelling salesman in that regard.

I'm open to that.  Copperhead's just going to sit in the RV and provide cover, so you can play it as you wish :>

We can even influence his decision to go straight home by doing something like spilling coffee on him.  Although if he is buying groceries chances are he won't be making a lot of other stops anyway.

Hmm, when Caduceus gets to Copperhead's van, will he be leaving his wind spirit's domain?  I know vehicles don't typically count as a different domain, but he would no longer be under the open sky if he goes inside.

The vehicle would still be under the open sky - depending on where I drive.

Not sure where the best place is for Noruas.  We really need to get him a wireless tap that's fast enough for his deck so we can plug him in and leave his meat in the van so no-one has to babysit him.  My leaning is to use the passcode that we know to get the three of you into the apartment using the passcode I watched him type in.  Then quietly break into a nearby apartment (maybe on a different floor) and let Noruas jack in so he can make sure there's no panic-button pushes.

The ideal would be to enter an apartment next door and use a hand-drill to make a small hole through the drywall and insulation and pop a fiber-optic scope through so White Duck can cast a spell on one of them to react well to someone at the door.  Then Caduceus can knock and all is good.

If Caduceus is able to make himself look like anyone, another possibility is to change to look like a neighbor and go knock on the door.  I don't mind taking an hour or two to get a sufficient read on a neighbor to be able to fake it enough.

Another possibility is to just stake out the place and wait for one or both to leave which reduces the chance of a mess.

If Noruas can take over the cameras and any security devices, another possibility would be to pick/crack the lock to his place (while we have a noisy distraction outside to cover the noise, then have the three of you burst in and subdue them.

Another option is for me to blast a bunch of stun rounds through the window, but I agree that's definitely a last resort.

I don't think a simple knock on the door by a stranger is going to fly.  TeeHee just ripped off chips worth a million nuyen a few days ago.  I doubt his guard has dropped enough for his old prof to just open the door to a stranger.

Depends on whether we can convince him that we're there to help out, not kill the guy. He may not be hiding out from our employer.

Our employer is the company he stole the chips from.  He sure *ought* to be hiding from us...

You've got to presume he's feeling pretty paranoid at the moment.  He's run to ground at the home of a friend.  A stranger knocking on the door probably isn't going to get a great reception - and we probably won't get to the "I'm friendly" part of the conversation before things start to go badly.

Besides which - we're not really that friendly.  We need the chips.  Tee Hee took the chips.  Either we take them from him, or we need him to tell who he sold them to and do whatever we need to to extract that information and potentially ensure his assistance in getting them back.

Even if that goes well, whoever we end up taking the chips from isn't going to be thrilled with TeeHee selling them out/assisting us.  It's pretty hard to see how us showing up can possibly be a positive thing for him given the background we know at the moment.

So I think we need to presume that either trickery or some form of non-cooperative acquisition is going to have to be involved here.

I like the idea of setting up shop next door or at least a nearby apartment.  But in this case, we would need someone to check and see if the apartments next to, above, or below the target are occupied.  So if Caduceus and Copperhead could please do us the honor of scoping the place out before we set up shop.

Is it just me, or do I get the feeling that our dear Tee Hee might be set up to be a patsy?  And would it be paranoid of me, if I were to ask that Copperhead and Caduceus scan our surroundings once more to be sure we're not being tracked to lead people to our target?

That company seems divided at this point- maybe he's afraid of Junior and not Manes? That's my theory.



Valid point, but I want to knock on the door to gather intel more than anything else. There are thousands of ways I can do that without informing either of them that we're a team of runners.



Speak for CH on this one, but Duck's a nice, reasonable fellow. Uncharacteristic for the line of work, of course, but he's got his reasons. Anyway, we went the torture route last time and while it worked, it ended up being ultimately unnecessary. I doubt he still has the chips, hell, I'd stack Duck's entire mission pay against it. It would be too easy for everything to be resolved in a smash and grab. If we want his assistance and don't want to worry about him trying to put one over on us, we'll need to play nice. I strongly believe we'll need his assistance.



This is why who we end up taking the chips from is going to require a not-so-nice resolution. They aren't going to be thrilled with us taking the chips, no matter what Tee Hee ends up doing, and if we're unconcerned with him enough to not want to even try to try reasoning with him, why would his well-being ultimately matter to our objective?



I agree, but hear me out-

-Cadeuces provides astral overwatch, maybe summons a few spirits to prevent escape.
-CH provides drone overwatch.
-Nouras sets up shop and provides Duck with any additional relevant info via comms.
-Duck knocks on their door, then calmly explains that us finding these chips is Tee-Hee's best shot at keeping his hoop in tact- we can even offer to get the guy out of town for an additional fee.

They get spooked and try to escape? We already have the building surrounded, and I doubt either one of them are martial arts experts, so it's likely Duck could knock them both out before they even get a chance to leave the apartment.

They refuse to cooperate outright and get past/disable/kill Duck? We already have the building surrounded, and will have several options for ventilating them.

They don't want to work with Duck or take him seriously? We utilize *one* of our angles in a threatening way, like having one of CH's drones put a bullethole in the fridge or something, to make them aware we're serious.

My reasoning here is that while you may be right, defaulting to a plan B capture/coerce/kill scenario shouldn't be our first go-to, especially since Tee-Hee and Hendrix don't seem to be dangerous. If they happen to be dangerous, we can set up around them and have it covered.

@Noruas: I did do a sweep of the area once and I'm continuing to keep an eye out - that's why I won't be going into the apartment - at least not physically.

I agree that TeeHee is likely a fall-guy and almost certainly doesn't have the chips.  That doesn't mean he won't fire a shotgun at the face of anyone who walks through the door though.

@White Duck:
We don't have any evidence to suggest he wouldn't be afraid of everyone at Global Technologies.  TeeHee essentially stabbed Urian in the back.  And while Urian didn't specifically say to ice TeeHee, he did say he didn't care what happened to him - so there's no love lost at this point.  There's no reason to think TeeHee's initial reaction to us is going to be positive.

Note: I'm not advocating for torture - certainly not as a first play.  I'm happy to do the good cop thing.  But I think just knocking on the door and planning to not get shot is super-risky.  So my leaning is to do the "nice cop" thing once we have him and his buddy under control.  We *don't* have to do that by shooting him in the head first this time though :>

I like your plan up until you knock on the door.  If you were laying low expecting a corp to come after you (or possibly multiple corps) and a stranger comes and knocks on the door after getting through a "secure" entrance, I'm pretty sure fight or flight's going to kick in.

Now, you may get lucky and they may put a gun on you and not pull the trigger and listen to you long enough to put the gun down.  Or they could:
- shoot you before you have a chance to do much more than knock
- call for backup (who knows what friends Hendrix has) or even just hit a panic-button or attract the attention of a bunch of friendly neighbors or a gang
- trigger some sort of trap (Hendrix is big on Matrix technology, so he may well have some fancy thingy engineered)
- head out some other secret escape we know nothing about and don't have covered
- do something unpleasant neither of us have anticipated

None of those things are easy to mitigate against.  You'd be relying on them either trusting you and letting you in or letting you in at gunpoint before they'd hear your story.  I'd put the first at <5% odds and the second at around 30-40% odds.  But that leaves 55%+ that we don't have covered and some of those options go *very* badly for you.


I'm gathering that your powers don't extend to "look like someone specific"?  How about "look like someone very unthreatening" -say an old man or a granny or something?  That might improve your odds from <45% into the 80%+ range.  Copperhead probably still won't approve, but she doesn't like you enough yet to try too hard to stop you ;>

Note that in terms of drone options, I can fire through the window with an LMG.  Beyond that, I'd need to get the scorpion into the apartment (which could stab one of them in the leg and knock them out) or you can carry the briefcase (which could knock them out quite quickly).  So no bullet in the fridge without making a lot of noise and breaking some glass.

Can your scorpion actually knock them out?  Like inject them with something?  We could try sneaking that in to subdue them and go from there.  Caduceus could have a hearth spirit help conceal it.

I also doubt he'd be a surgeon with a shotgun.



True, but I got the impression from the conversation with Manes that even though TeeHee betrayed him, he still cares. He might have said he didn't care, but that's a common thing to say about someone you're angry with.



Maybe so, but Duck would be the only one at risk in that situation, and he's a bit of a gambler. Alternatively we could wait on Hendrix to leave, swipe his key or do a little B&E, and get Tee-Hee alone, but I'm inclined to think that they'd feel safer and thus more likely to cooperate if they were both there.


I don't think that there's an expectation that Tee-Hee will even be found. We'll have the flight angle covered, and Duck's all about nonlethal damage if the fight angle is taken.


-Being shot by a base amateur is a risk Duck would be willing to take.\
-If these guys had backup, wouldn't they already have that backup around, what with them fearing for their safety and all? The odds Dr. Hendrix knows a go-gang might be present, but those seem like some really long odds.
-Fancy matrix trap you say? Well, no datajack installed here.
-Secret escape route built into an apartment complex? Too convenient to really be viable. Seems the odds on that are pretty long too. Still possible, but I feel our group's recon skills are strong enough to find them if they exist.
-We can't anticipate every possible unpleasantry, that's just a part of this game. We can go out of our way to negate the consequences of failed risks, but nobody expects or knows when a killer troll with a panther cannon that's having a bad day is going to come around the corner.



Nah, I'm not relying on *anything*, and my character, as a face, sort of has to get into situations where the outcome could be very bad all the time. In this case, he'd only be risking his own hoop, and to him, those circumstances are absolutely ideal. Right now, as it stands, we have the option and the possibility of a non-hostile approach working out, with a solid list of contingencies we can take if things *do* go wrong. As a player, OOC, I *know* it's a gamble, but rationally, it's going to be REALLY inconvenient for these guys to shoot or maim an unarmed man and get away with it. They'd have to deal with having committed a felony, probably having to talk to the cops, and possibly even having to dispose of a body. I think that when you consider the risks *they* would have to take if they did something drastic, it makes them doing something incredibly stupid far less likely. I anticipate that they'll be INCREDIBLY testy, but I think Duck has the skills to crack them without it resorting to violence. Heck, I designed him to be ready for it if it does.


Duck already has the Friendly Face edge, which will come into play here statistically without needing a disguise. Disguise isn't a skill he has yet, but I definitely intend on investing in it for future runs.



Can the scorpion get into the ventilation system? Maybe we can plant it on-site prior to making our move?

By the way, I know you aren't trying to be contrary at all, and I really appreciate your insights on this, CH. It's good to consider as many factors as we can prior to acting. That said, I think knocking on the guy's door is still a solid approach. Alternatively, we can wait on him to go on a grocery run again and try to hit up Tee-Hee whilst he's away, but I think having the two split up makes the situation more complicated and potentially hostile.

In reply to Caduceus (msg # 211):

Duck can knock them both out.

I am less worried about our ability to take them out and more worried about them being able to activate some computer doodad before we are able to.  Both are skilled with the matrix and could have contingencies set up if anything were to happen.  With a press of a button they could notify backup that they need help, activate drones, wipe their hard drives, etc.  Heck, even using Hendrix's own pass code for the apartment could trigger a warning or activate a security camera or something.  Their physical and magical security sucks, but I would be surprised if their matrix security was the same.  That was why I was interested in knocking them out before they even knew we were there.

Also, if we are assuming Tee Hee is a fall guy, would the people who set him up be keeping tabs on him?

What if we knock out trix access?

We should definitely do that.  But there is also a good chance they might notice us trying to do that with Noruas jacked in.  Unless we do something like sever the matrix equivalent of a landline or cut power to the whole building, which bring up their own sets of issues.

Also, anybody know what matrix geometry actually is?

Cutting power, hmm? Might add to our shock factor and make them more compliant. Maybe that's what CH's scorpion drone could be up to? Still, for the sake of discretion we should make the outage as localized as possible.

Oh, I like that!  Cut power to Hendrix's apartment and pose as a neighbor or something, asking if their power went out too.  Maybe ask to borrow a flashlight?

That would get Duck's foot in the door, so to speak, and also neutralize what is probably their strongest asset that could be used in their defense.

TeeHee has no way to know how Urian feels - they've had no contact since the theft, so I'd expect TeeHee to assume the worst.  We certainly can't base our plan on anything other than that.

Challenge with posing as a neighbor is we have no idea whether Hendrix knows all of his neighbors or not.  Nor whether this is the "helpful neighbor" type of apartment block.  So posing as a neighbor could be a red flag.  It could also cause the hallways to clog up with folks and make them pay attention to more about what's going on around them - which might not be in our best interest.

Scorpion is unlikely to be able to cut the power without getting fried - and not willing to incur that cost when a tiny amount of C4 and a detonator can do the job more effectively and cheaply.

I don't recall any indication these fellows were surgeons.  I thought both were techies.  In either event, one of them just committed a major theft and has presumably had interactions with a buyer.  Presuming that they're both unarmed and un-trained is a significant assumption.  Shadowrunners and cops aren't necessarily the only people in Seattle who know how to shoot a gun . . .

Backup is, by definition, people who have other things to do but come when they're called.  They may not have money to pay for full time guards, but that doesn't mean they don't have friends.

I don't think Papa said anything about no matrix connection.  Certainly that couldn't have been assessed from astral and we haven't done any physical recon except an aerial from outside.  I'd be astounded if a former matrix prof would have an apartment without a decent connection.

Agree that secret escape route is relatively low probability/risk.  The real point is there's lots of unknowns.


I was confusing White Duck's abilities with Caduceus's.  How about we try the following:
- White Duck, Noruas and Caduceus get into the apartment complex using Hendrix's matrix code and take over an apartment that's nearby (you can use my lock-cracking tools as needed)
- Noruas scopes out the matrix and tries to disable panic-buttons or anything else that looks problematic
- White Duck goes astral and checks to makes sure none of the neighbors are home or look like they're in a mood to cause trouble
- We see if we can stick the scorpion into a ventilation duct to get eyes-in if Noruas can't get camera access (but odds are all the scorpion will be able to do is watch)
- Caduceus turns himself into a little old lady and White Duck tries to look non-threatening and together they go up to the door, carrying my briefcase and knock.  So long as the door opens and you're not immediately shot, we're good.  My guess is two people, one of whom is a little old lady will get treated as Jehovah's Witness or Universal Brotherhood or some equivalent
- If the two of you can talk your way in, great.  If not, once the door is open, there should be no issue with the three of us being able to take them down quickly and quietly - the only question is whether we'll have to knock them out.  An opening line (after the door's open) of "TeeHee's in danger" or something like that should be enough to throw them off balance in a non-threatening way for you to get sufficiently inside to control the situation.
- Copperhead can jump into the briefcase or the hover-drone as needed and can provide overwatch from outside while any discussions are going on.

I think cutting the power is an unnecessary complication.  It means Noruas can't do matrix overwatch and it's likely to draw the attention of other residents and maybe outsiders and doesn't really help us much.

(And I'm not trying to be contrarian either - just want to make sure we're all working from the same set of assumptions and making sure we probe the assumptions to make sure they're solid. :>)

The plan isn't based on Manes' feelings, but whether or not we're concerned about Tee Hee's well-being. Regardless of what Manes thinks, it wouldn't really affect our approach.



Agreed, which is why I'd prefer an honest approach.



No need to waste explosives in my opinion. I'm not really concerned about any concealed missile turrets or anything, and they can't touch me with IC. Why would they alert the authorities when they're on the run and we're offering to help?



I'm not assuming they don't/won't know how to shoot, I'm going off of the assumption that they aren't going to have a reason to. Think about it, they just committed a major theft. They think Tee Hee is safe, otherwise there'd be more readily apparent muscle present. Us getting the drop on them is going to really let the surprise of the situation work in our favor.



If they had friends, why are they holing up in a shithole apartment? I think Tee Hee's already gone to one of the few people who could help, and since this theft can add up to millions in profits, they'd both be in a safer place right now if they could be, but they aren't.



Agreed, he's probably connected. I still don't know exactly how dangerous this'll be anyway to anyone except for Nouras, and that'd be if Nouras wanted to bat at the hornet's nest. If they hit a panic button, maybe it's who'd come calling we'd need to be dealing with anyway. No-one but Duck would be on-site, and he's got considerable enough stealth skill to stand a great chance of escape in that contingency. Still, I seriously doubt Hendrix OR Tee-hee are massive threats. I'm well aware that we shouldn't underestimate any potential threats, but all evidence leads to this being more of a regular-type estimation. If Tee Hee or Hendrix knew the big bad wolf and had the capacity to take us out or do anything more than hide, he'd have done it.


There ALWAYS are unknowns. It doesn't mean we should never act when presented with an opportunity. I'm concerned that the more elaborate we get with these shenanigans, the higher the chance of us tipping them off and blowing the one thing we absolutely have going for us- surprise.



Sorry, breaking into an apartment of an unknown neighbor brings way more unknown and uncontrollable factors into this situation than us simply knocking on the door.



Sure, but if they're nova-hot deckers, it may be an unnecessarily difficult task for our decker that could once again tip them off that something's up.


You mean Cadeuces? Just astral perception here. Also, since we need info out of these guys and won't go loud unless absolutely necessary, the neighbors are either going to mind their own business or be a minor issue if your fears are correct and these two are secretly controlling the minions of hell or something.


Then let's keep it nearby as combat backup if need be.



I would be absolutely flabbergasted if the scenario of us opening the door and instantly shooting at us took place, unless of course we've somehow managed to tip them off.



Impersonating a group people normally ignore or tell to go away doesn't start us off on good footing. Why can't I knock on the door, let Hendrix know we've got a team surrounding the building if he/they try to bolt, and come across as someone trying to help them out of a bad situation instead? If Tee Hee fears a team of runners is after him, what motivation would he have to go fight or flight if we just tell him we're really just after the chips? Killing a very distinct-looking, unarmed albino in broad daylight isn't a very good way to stay hidden, but actually cooperating so you can breathe easily and not live in fear is going to look like a very sparkly, pretty option.

Absolutely, and worst-case scenario would be the only scenario we'd need it, but it's definitely needed.


I think impersonating a religious solicitor, breaking into a nearby apartment, and utilizing c-4 in any way for this particular stage of ops are all unnecessary complications, too.

Here's a breakdown-
-We know where they are.
-They don't know we know where they are.
-They don't know who we are.
-Unless these guys are already WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more powerful or in control than any party involved assumes they are, they aren't very secure at all.
-That said, if they start to run, Duck can probably kick the crap out of them.
-If I'm way wrong and Duck is hosed, we've got drones buzzing around outside the building that can ensure they won't be leaving without repercussions.
-This knock-out/kidnapping/interrogation thing is going to be INCREDIBLY conspicuous. That's when we'd really have to worry about the neighbors getting involved. I mean WTH, if these guys are being watched and all of the counterpoints you've brought up against a friendly approach are true, well um, they're gonna notice us taking overt hostile action too.
-That said, I don't get why the friendly honest approach is being perceived as a more dangerous option here. Sure Hendrix might be a sociopathic shoot first and ask questions later then drink tea that evening kinda guy, but if we give them ANY reason to think they need to be on guard, desperate people do desperate things. A single unarmed man who approaches them with an offer of help just seems like a lot less likely to make someone trigger happy than us lying to them, kicking in the door if they don't buy it, hog tying them, carrying them outside, and throwing them into the back of the van. If the friendly approach doesn't work, we can still do all of that, we face the exact same possible negative outcomes with either approach, but if we go hostile right away, we're completely eliminating the possibility that Tee Hee is going to help voluntarily and without threat. In other words, we're eliminating a potentially huge gain in the form of a helpful pair of deckers who apparently just want to be safe.

Baring new information, I think White Duck's plan has won me over.  For the most part.  We know half the apartments are empty, so I still think it would be beneficial to enter one of them and get Noruas a close connection and Caduceus a place to summon local spirits (can't do it while projecting).  Also, I had Caduceus check the building layout on the astral to check for things like secret passages, but I probably didn't make that very clear.

My suggestion is we have White Duck do his thing with the knocking.  Noruas can keep an eye on the matrix and try to head off any suspicious activity.  Copperhead can keep overwatch and shoot them down if they somehow make it outside.  Caduceus can summon spirits to give Duck backup if needed.  Caduceus can monitor the situation from astral space, and if Duck keeps his astral perception up, Caduceus can use a mind link spell to keep in verbal contact with the group, providing inel and commanding his summoned spirit in an emergency.

I think commandeering an empty apartment is low-risk.  We've got enough B&E skills and toys that it should be straight-forward.  And we can find one astrally that's genuinely empty - and that looks unoccupied or at least infrequently occupied and has no pets or other issues.

I fully agree we don't want to hurt either of them.  And I wasn't thinking we'd cart them downstairs.  Was just thinking we'd chat in the apartment, even if that involved knocking them out first.

That said, I'm ok with your plan.  I think giving Caduceus a chance to summon spirits is good.  It's 50-50 whether we're better off having Noruas in the network or not.  He's vulnerable to nastiness in the network and could tip off our targets if they've got it monitored.  On the other hand, he could block out-bound communication and perhaps improve our situational awareness.  So I say we make it Noruas' call whether he jacks in or not.  (One option is for him to jack in simultaneously with the knock on the door.

I see. Decent idea, bit of a risk if someone randomly shows up, but may be a good opportunity. What if in the scenario where we had to incap them, we just tied them up in Hendrix's own apartment? We'd know for sure in that case nobody else would be dropping by.
Plus, there's something more terrifying about being tied up and helpless in one's own abode that could play out well for us during interrogation.



Agreed, should be Nouras' call.

Well, let's go ahead and set that up then. I'm optimistic these guys are going to be so relieved we aren't a strike team that we'll be able to bring them out for cheeseburgers. Hmm, maybe we can go in with a gift?

By the way, just wanted to let you guys know that I made a few minor changes to my sheet with Bear's approval- one significant change is that I no longer have Astral Perception. I'm confident Cad has that covered.

Wow, you guys go through a lot in one night!  I woke up earlier and had to scroll through A LOT!

Anyways, I'm all for the occupying adjacent or nearby apartments approach.  I WILL still need something like CH's super briefcase just in case!  Oh, and Caduceus can probably set his meat in the same apartment too so that we can respond much more quickly to each other should things go awry.

As to the mindlink spell Caduceus mentioned, I'm uncertain how that will play out when I'm in the matrix.  PB stresses time and time again to me that Magic doesn't mix well with Technology,so.....

I can try the matrix approach, but seeing as to how our two targets are potentially deckers with home court advantage I might possibly be outgunned.  In that case, I'm unsure how much help I can give in that aspect.  But I will still try and see if there's anything I can try to assist in.

Aside from all that, I say we improvise from there. (Too much planning will be our downfall if we can't adapt.)  Copperhead can keep over-watch for external factors outside the building while providing extra back-up should we need it.  I will do my schtick and handle the matrix side if I can.  (I'll try to warn you guys if I can't.)  Caduceus is our magical support as well as providing other channels of communication for those of us who can use it.  WD will probably have to take the lead in initiating contact and approach the situation as how he sees fit.  The rest of us will provide him with as much support as possible.



But there is something that is bothering me.  If we were to enter the apartment complex with Hendrix's code, would that alert him or anyone else to our presence?  Or is this code the same for everyone in the complex?



And as for the B&E aspect of the other apartments, I can probably handle it. But I might need to borrow a couple tools from CH.

Caduceus can't use his mind link on the astral plane on anyone not using astral perception, so he can't use it on any of you anymore.  But I believe he can still command a spirit if he conjured it ahead of time (assuming projecting doesn't count as leaving their domain).  So Caduceus can be a ghost over Duck's shoulder to keep an eye on things.  If he needs to, Caduceus can manifest himself to relay info in an emergency as well.

I don't know about the others, but I'll take whatever we can get!  Better to have help than to have none at all.

Agreed.  Caduceus can also conjure a spirit or two to help guard Noruas as well.

So let's start by doing the b & e, then go from there.

Given the quality of the neighborhood and the apartment building, I expect the front door has a set of known pass-codes and either opens or doesn't - no alerts.  If there's a change in behavior, Copperhead should be able to notice it through the window and we can adjust.  Right now they're focused on making breakfast, so a bit distracted too.

Our sub-vocal mikes should be sufficient for communication.  Real benefit of the spell is when there's jamming, someone's swiped our mikes or we need to maintain radio silence.

So plan is:
1. White Duck, Noruas and Caduceus enter the apartment building using the passcode we watched Hendrix use.  They then break into a nearby apartment that looks like it's empty and has been that way for a while.  Copperhead will watch to make sure the targets don't get spooked and to provide overwatch

2. The three will work to put the scorpion into a ventilation shaft and, depending on where the apartment is, consider whether it's worthwhile poking a scope through the wall.
- If the walls are brick, might be too much effort.  But if the walls are just gyp-rock and insulation, should be able to poke a hole very quickly and quietly (and I can do a flyby with the siren on to cover the noise. )  I should have a good sense of the layout, so should be no issue knowing whether there's going to be a spot from one of the adjacent apartment with a good view of their feet.  And that would let White Duck cast spells and watch without going astral.  Not an essential element though - just an available set of tools if you guys decide to use it.

3. Once the drone's in place, then White Duck goes astral for a final recon and Caduceus summons his spirits and White Duck goes to knock on the door, leaving the briefcase to watch over the bodies in the commandeered apartment.  Noruas jacks in at the same time White Duck knocks.  If things go badly, then spirits + white duck (and maybe a stun bolt or two from Caduceus) take them out.  If things go really badly, Copperhead will start shooting through walls and windows.

4. Presuming the operation has been successful and quiet, Caduceus and Noruas can opt to change base of operations to Hendrix's apartment (after retrieving the scorpion).  Copperhead will continue to keep an eye on what's going on outside in case unfriendlies show up

That said, I'd ask with Duck, but he knows this already, but what's Tee-Hee's actual name? We have that info, don't we? Do we know Hendrix's decker name? I think I recall him having a datajack.



Seems the GM indicated that the only empty apartment had been recently occupied. How cautiously are we trying to proceed with this option? It seems like it might be riskier than expected.


Hi CH, it's nice to meet you, I'm a kickyfooting facey type specialist with no spellcasting ability :P. Anyway, idea for the scorpion- if these apartments are cheap enough, they might go with cheap ceiling paneling, and if that's the case, we can lift a tile and let the scorpion in there. Ceiling is a lot more likely to be soft enough to drill through.



Sorry, I'd said a little earlier that I did some re-tooling of my sheet to reflect a few changes Bear approved, mainly to ditch firearms usage and convert Duck's skills in that area to throwing weapons instead. Had to give up astral perception in order to do so, sadly, but with Cadeuces on astral, it's an area we've got covered.



Good idea. Say, why can't these guys break into a maintenance closet or something instead of an occupied apartment?

As far as I can recall, Tee-Hee is his real name.  Or at least the name he used where he worked.  If there was another name, I don't remember hearing it.  And I believe Rr. Hendrix's decker name is Flair.




I think we can still use the apartment.  If someone returns home then Copperhead could probably warn us.  Perhaps we could jam a door between the entrance and the third floor as well.




Caduceus can also cast Stealth on the drill so it makes absolutely no noise instead of very little.




Yes, White Duck is the adept/face (no astral), and Caduceus is the snake shaman with conjuring/astral abilities.  I think you keep getting us mixed up. :P

Also, I should mention that Caduceus has no direct damage spells (snake shamans are pacifists).  He is not so great with weapons either.  He more relies on tricks and spirits and staying out of combat altogether.




If there is a maintenance closet nearby, that is a great idea.  I don't think apartments typically have them though, do they?  I guess that would be for Papa Bear to tell us though.

You're right - I do keep getting you confused.  The fact that White Duck doesn't have astral anymore should help.  Eventually . . . :>

I think White Duck has already knocked on the door before anyone's gotten hidden away anywhere, so what apartments/closets are available is probably moot.

I wouldn't recommend jamming the door to the third floor.  That just says to everyone "something's up" - and we'd rather no-one knew that.

Seeing as Flair/Hendrix and/or Tee Hee are going to be online when the knocking happens, my recommendation is to relocate them ASAP as either of them *could* potentially have called for backup.  (Friends, buyers of the chips, who knows) and it'd be best to avoid those sorts of circumstances.  That said, if anyone does show up, I can give a heads up, and it shouldn't be too hard to convince our targets that everyone'll be a lot healthier if their friends go home - might be harder with the buyers though as they may be happy to tie up loose ends.

In general, silence spell plus drill with fiber-optic scope + mind control spells is pretty powerful.  Not sure we'll need it here, but going forward, it should make it a lot easier to make someone urgently need to use the toilet, get into an argument with the other occupant in the room or do whatever else we need.  So feel free to borrow the drill and scope in the future when/if you need to.

Caduceus - by "no direct damage", does that include stun/sleep spells?

Yes, unfortunately.  He has stun grenades though.  Influence, Trid Phantasm, and spirits are the magics he would most likely use in combat.  He gets penalties in magic in combat though, as a snake shaman, so he would rely more heavily on physical combat anyway.

So which door is WD knocking on specifically?  I mean, we haven't exactly gotten into position yet, right?  Unless of course I missed a whole bunch of posts saying we somehow got through the front door and then into the apartment adjacent to Hendrix and Tee Hee without incident?

Knocking on the front door of the complex isn't going to get much - you'd have to buzz someone presumably.  And you've got a passcode to open it on your own.  I guess you could look for Hendrix's name and buzz that, asking to come in.  But that puts you a long ways from wherever they are if they decide to do something *other* than open the door to let you in.  I think using the passcode to get through the outer door and knocking on the inner door strikes the right balance.  It significantly limits their options and shows your power, but still shows politeness and restraint.  The question is whether you're going to let the other team-members get into position first.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I wanted to ask.  Are you gonna let us take our positions first?

I indicated in my initial post that Duck was waiting for you guys to get into position before he knocked.

So I guess it's up to Caduceus and Noruas to indicate where they're going to hang out.

Ok
( https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zrfUJzfMZ_4/maxresdefault.jpg )

Seems like a lot of stuff to squish in there and basically skip past, but I'll work on a post.

Well, I don't really have anything going on with my character until you guys elaborately break into an adjoining apartment to... uh, well, you know, objectively I don't really know a solid reason why you guys want to do that whole B&E thing aside from increasing the odds that something goes south.

I'm not sure as a player what we're gaining from that course of action aside from an opportunity to get caught committing a crime that doesn't serve much of a purpose against a victim we don't even know who could be anyone, including someone dangerous. If you guys want to back Duck up, you can also just wait around the corner of a hallway or something. For now I'm just kinda facepalming over here about how elaborate a scheme this is becoming- I mean CH literally handed Duck so much stuff that he'd need help carrying it all, and for what? To prepare for the contingency of...?

My point is, we're creating a situation ourselves that has more unknowns than the situation we're facing- two dudes in an apartment who don't know we're coming. I think the adjacent apartment thing is completely unnecessary, and since the consensus seems to be that this level of effort is required and Duck is being reckless in just wanting to go up to the guy's door and knock, there are an absurdly high number of things that can go wrong with breaking into a stranger's apartment to provide my quite-combat-capable runner with backup that he doesn't need. If Duck ends up geeked, then hindsight is 20/20 and you guys were right about this, but if I'm correct in my assessment of this situation, we're going to bog things down with an incredibly elaborate approach that gains us an advantage that'd be negligible at best.

That said, I typed out my action all in one go so that I, as a player, can check back next week after you guys have mission impossible'd your way into the neighbor's apartment and I can finally proceed.

Admittedly, I was half of the mind to just have him walk in and ignore this plan you guys have hatched, but I'm trying to be considerate and you guys all seem to think it's a good idea. Maybe I'm just not seeing something here, but I think personally it's a pretty terrible idea. So does Duck, so I'll have him let you all know this in his own way.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:54, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

If Duck is so not the least bit worried about the two guys trying to lay low, and even thinks he can take them on single handedly if they draw guns on him, then why is he so worried about the slum neighbors who aren't even home?  It seems awfully low-risk to me to have two professionals waiting in standby.

We are a team, White Duck.  A Shadowrunning team.  You may very well be able to be able to handle this scenario solo, but I don't think our characters know you well enough to just take your word on your ability to work miracles by knocking on a door.  Contingencies are there to use, but hopefully they never need to be.  There is no reason that while your character is doing what he is good at, that our characters can't be doing what they are good at.

When I play a roleplaying game, I do like there to be a bit of role-playing involved.

A miracle isn't what's needed for this situation, a discussion is, and a discussion doesn't require a separate B&E with fiber optic cam relays, multiple backup spirits, and I guess decking support. If we needed to work a miracle, maybe the incredibly overladen briefcase, the spare drone, and all of this other stuff might be called for, but for this situation, I'm just not seeing how doing the B&E thing into the slum neighbor's apartment is beneficial or useful at all. We're a team, you're right, but a good team knows when *not* to waste time and assets and take unnecessary risks, which this is.

If you want to argue the contrary, let's see how this plays out. I'm not a betting man myself, but I'd put money on all of this contingency planning you guys want to do being a useless elaboration carried out because my character can't be trusted to complete a simple task.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:22, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

Also, telling me that we're a team in the same line that you're telling me your characters don't know mine well enough to trust in his abilities is kind of a contradictory statement. A team trusts its members to follow through, especially if they're confident they can, *especially* a shadowrunning team. Of course, what would I know, I've only been playing this game since '94.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:32, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

I am fine with the contingency being unnecessary. It is a contingency after all.  And I am certainly interested in seeing how this works out.  I do not have nearly as many doubts in White Duck's abilities as my character does. (Remember they have known each other less than 24 hours)

However, what happens if you knock and nobody answers?

We know they're in there, so I knock again.

EDIT: Removed a bunch of myself being cranky about this.

I just want to say here that the contingencies you're all planning for are all ones that would pretty much exclusively put my own character at risk, and I'd appreciate it if in the future you guys gave me as a player the agency to take such risks, seeing as they don't endanger anyone else. If I tell you guys "I got this," I'd really appreciate your consideration and respect- after all, part of being a team is knowing what role each member of a team plays, and part of good role play is being allowed and able to play the role you designed your character for.

Here, I think I grew frustrated because I told you guys "I got this," and I feel like that's been ignored, all because, from what my understanding of the situation is, you don't want my character to be in danger? Hi, the player of that character here speaking. I'm all good with not having the safety net/contingency plan. Duck?

"Yessir?"

Do you feel like you need backup on this?

"Nope, but I'd appreciate it if these folks stopped trying to babysit me."

Alrighty then.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:30, Wed 23 Mar 2016.

My general leaning in the Shadowrun space is to be over-prepared rather than under-prepared.  We have very little intel on TeeHee or Hendrix.  We don't know if or how well armed they are or what skills they have.  We don't know if they have back-up available or not.  I agree that there's decent odds that you won't need the back-up.  We can only guess - and if you have to guess, prepare for the worst.  It's better to have the back-up available and not need it than the reverse, right?  And the risk associated with breaking into the apartment is pretty low - I'm pretty sure Noruas can be inside in less than 10 seconds.  They'll only be there for 5 minutes or so - enough for you to talk your way in and take control of the situation without spooking them.

Your character being in danger means putting the team at risk - you're a part of the team.  Also, if things go badly for you because you under-estimated risk and we're not in position to help you, then that means others put themselves at risk to get you out and we may put the mission at risk if anything unfortunate happens to the target.  Also keep in mind that we're a new team - takes a while to be able to trust each other or know what our capabilities are, so playing it safe makes sense from that perspective too.

If you want to roleplay a character who doesn't want teammates covering his six, that's ok.  But I presume that any time we're dealing with likely hostiles with unknown capabilities, backup is the default assumption.  And I definitely would categorize these as likely hostiles with unknown capabilities.

Paranoia is king in the Shadowrun universe I'm familiar with - anyone who presumes they've got it covered isn't likely to last long.

All that said, Copperhead's plan is to sit in her drone and watch and pull the trigger through the wall only as a truly last resort.  So long as you don't lose or damage my gear, what you do after you buzz in through the front entrance is up to the three of you :>

Eh, I suppose. Still, doing a side job and breaking into an apartment whose occupants we don't know instead of waiting around a corner screams unnecessary risk to me. I understand the sentiment of wanting to be prepared, and like I said, I've been playing SR since the early 90's, so I sort of know that paranoia can come in handy, but for this particular situation, not in general, it seems waaaay over the top in addition to being a risky move.

Objectively, we stand to lose more than we stand to gain from this particular move, because what we gain is the probably-not-necessary backup my character doesn't need to complete the objective and breaking into an unvetted apartment introduces, well, an unknown number of unknowns that make the paranoid aspect of me itch furiously. You guys have been telling me that this is being done so that you guys can be prepared, but in turn you're sort of forcing my character into lying to them- he can't legitimately claim that he's there to help and to keep them safe if he's got spirits following him around to harm them if they try anything, drones flying around outside to ventilate them if they try anything, and a decker jacked in nearby to combat them in their area of expertise if they try anything. Duck may as well bring a gun in and knock on the door with it.

Sure they might not know, if everyone gets where they need to be successfully, which happens to be an if of unmeasurable magnitude. Also, Duck knows, and since he's going to be attempting to be sincere approach, he's incredibly irritated that the team wants to risk that in order to breathe down his neck. Ever see Ocean's 11? There's a reason the talkers operate on their own while the ops people do work completely separate from them on most occasions- it'll blow cover, just like any of you guys making a misstep of getting a botched roll on this yet again only minimally helpful at best side-op would blow Duck's cover and potentially compromise the whole op.

Right now, as it stands, the team's insistence on it is perceived as not helpful, rather intrusive to his methods, and another instance of backseat driving. He's made the point before that he doesn't take kindly to anyone telling him how to do his job, and to him, this is worse, since instead everyone seems to be expecting him to fail at it.

In other words, the other team members in this instance are actually increasing the chances that my character will be put in danger by taking a risk that's had very little estimation. Sorry, all we know is that the targeted apartment is empty, and that's it. If a problem arises, it's going to hit you with a BIGTIME sense of underestimation. By having multiple angles of attack planned out and by waiting on these guys to show any aggressive actions before the jaws clamp down on them, you're increasing the chance that something unfortunate will happen to the target. While trust may take awhile to establish, Duck has already shown his capabilities in negotiation to the party, and he hasn't messed it up. He's insistent on doing it himself, that he needs minimal cover, and the team is basically giving him the impression that he can just fuck off by steamrolling through him and doing it anyway.

Either way, what's done is done I guess, and now I've got to play it forward. As a player, I fail to see any wisdom, good instinct, or merit to what the rest of the team is up to. Duck can't really see it either. I don't mean any personal offense by it, and I'm not personally offended, but it's kind of exhausting trying to explain to you guys that this particular maneuver introduces more risk into the situation and harms more than it helps, regardless of whether Duck succeeds or fails. That factor seems to be presently ignored in favor of paranoia. That's all I'm going to say on this issue unless asked. It's been made pretty clear at this point that I'm not getting through and I don't know how else I can explain how I'm seeing things. :/

Getting through a lock and disabling an alarm are quantifiable risks.  I suppose it's possible that the next door apartment will turn out to belong to a super-paranoid BTL pusher with security up the wazoo, but on the balance of probabilities, that's less likely than the pair we're visiting will check the security cameras for the whole building (which likely won't extend into the apartment but will certainly cover the hallways) and/or will pose a threat.

I think this is a case where we just have different threat assessments.  You see going one on two against two unknown and likely hostile individuals as low-risk because your character is set up to do that.  We see breaking into an unoccupied apartment in a run-down building as being low risk because a couple of the characters involved are designed to do that (and have the material to do it).  Both have potential risk.

From an IC perspective, I'm not sure a pure soft approach where you not only go in claiming to be a friend but actually *intend* to be a friend is on the table.  Copperhead is used to a space where force talks and if someone balks, you force their arm up a little higher behind their back (figuratively speaking).  Her perspective is that having a show of force to back up the friendly overture is likely to be important.  And OOC, it just clicked with me that you really are wanting to make this a totally friendly encounter.  My instinct says that's super-risky but I'll grant that it does have a bigger potential pay-off.

I think part of the issue is we got into the nitty gritty aspect of planning without settling on overall approach - make friends or show of force.  And thus we've been arguing the details from very different perspectives of how we're looking for this to go down.

It's true we've seen you with the Johnson and we've seen you work in an environment where the subject didn't have much choice but to comply.  But we haven't seen you walking up to a door hiding two surprised hostiles with your cahones hanging out.  That feels a little unnatural to Copperhead (and to me).  On the other hand, breaking into a known empty apartment is less stress than deciding what Nutrasoy packet to make for dinner.

I'll drop it too, but next time, we can perhaps work to agree on general objectives before we dig into tactical specifics and perhaps save writing and reading quite so much on this thread :>  (And not suggesting you weren't clear about what you were trying to do - I was just coming at it from a different perspective that what you were aiming to do didn't click and we never really got to arguing about that overall objective part.)

You're right about him being a diva and all, but a diva isn't just a diva because they're particular, it's because they're particular AND very good.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:33, Sat 02 Apr 2016.

And yeah, no hard feelings on whatever you guys' characters decide. I'm not sure I'd be willing to roll up another character for this one, since I put quite a bit of work into fully fleshing him out, but if he isn't compatible and the other characters can't give him any ground whatsoever, this whole thing is going to play out like a failed marriage I.C., and since I like you guys, I'd rather pull him out before the very thing I'm concerned about happening occurs and you guys start to dislike me personally.

Divas might be very good, but that doesn't mean they'll be popular with those who have to work with them.  I don't think it'll be necessary to roll up a new character.  Once White Duck has learned that having backup is sometimes useful and once the others have learned how to give Duck sufficient working room while still fulfilling their roles, the tensions should subside.  So long as we want things to work OOC, we can figure out ways to make things work IC.  I don't think there's anything irrevocably different in terms of character desires.  It's not like we have a drug addict and an anti-drug campaigner or a cleptomaniac and a straight-shooting LoneStar cop or a blood-thirsty serial killer and a pacifist.  We just have a situation where team members haven't figured out what everyone's grove is and how best to work together.  That's manageable with time, experience and the right driving events.  I'm sure Papa will throw us ample opportunities to save each other's hoops.  (Provided we manage avoid being so disfunctional we lose them instead :>)

So who was who, again?  I'm fairly certain I was the pacifist! ;)  Oh, how I miss being the pacifist!  :D  I don't remember if we had a cleptomaniac in the group before!
This message was last edited by the player at 05:34, Mon 04 Apr 2016.

Wasn't necessarily pointing to actual occurrences.  At least not for all of them :>

Wait, that reminds me, 'I' was the clepto of the group....as well as the serial killer.

Thaden was the anti-drugs and pacifist.

Sean was the drug addict.

Lonestar cop?  I think it was Ronin or someone...

Responding to Noruas's OOC question here:

I think White Duck's deciding whether to go back up with some excuse to pump them a bit more and to hopefully find a way to keep track of them in the unlikely event we need them again.  (We could have him plant a tracker, but I'm really not sure they're worth it.)  He may be waiting to see if anyone else has questions to raise.  Or he might just be trying to get healthy :>

Copperhead's waiting to hear back from her fixer (and your former fixer) whether Freya's still alive and where she might be (may be easier to roll her after her fixer left her for dead - assuming she isn't).  And also to find out if it's possible to set up a meet with Cooperman.

Dealing with Cooperman is going to be challenging.  It's strongly against his business interests to out his client.  Or double-cross him.  And my read is that taking any "assertive action" against a fixer in the Shadowrun universe without cause is frowned upon.  Sort of creates a disincentive for anyone to give you work.  So the best we can likely do is get information - and that's going to cost.  If anyone's got a way of connecting with someone with the Blood Rumblers to get more intel, that might work.  In theory we might acquire some sort of artifact he's interested in, though I wouldn't pursue that angle without really good intelligence he actually wants it.

If anyone's got corp or financial contacts, it'd be good to get a read on the relationship between Manns and Junior and the ramifications of the Friday shareholder meeting.

Do you mean Manes and Junior?  Looks like we'll have to wait until daybreak again if we wanna get more info, since most corp and financial people need their beauty sleep. (Me, included.)  BTW, just as a reference for my next move, what day and time is it in-game?
This message was last edited by the player at 05:02, Tue 05 Apr 2016.

I'm guessing it's now around 9 or 9:30am on Wednesday - and we haven't slept.  We've got 48 hours.

That means I gotta leave you guys and head for my day job.

Feel free to identify alternatives.  Noruas, not sure what makes the most sense for you.

Cliff Notes version of the what I need to know?

We're going to a street doc clinic where the wounded mage is holed up.  We've got an invite for me and I can probably bring one more.  Need our mage to keep the other mage from causing problems.  We don't yet have the ability for you to make a wireless connection from within the van (and the timeframe for acquisition means we wouldn't be able to get one in time to be useful), so I'm not sure what works best.  You can come in physically as additional back-up.  You can twiddle your thumbs in the van.  We can drop you at a coffin motel with decent connectivity and you can monitor things from there.  You can make a tap in a back alley and lie under a tarp and hope no-one notices you.  (Not advocating that last one :>)  You may have other ideas.

I think I'll find something to do once we get there.  But I'll probably need to surveil the location first and see if there's any other way I can help out.

K.  Sounds like we're now ready for a description of what we see when we show up :>

Maybe we can pool what we know about the female mage here. Having a good body of knowledge going in will help in questioning/directing the conversation here.

When you say she is a mage, it implies that she is a hermetic magician, correct?  Do we know this for sure, and do we know anything more specific about the type of magic she uses?

We were told she's a street mage.  That typically means hermetic, but we probably don't know for sure.  (And I'm not sure that Copperhead would draw the distinction.)  We know very little about here.  I could probably have gotten more info about her, but I didn't.

Cool.  I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something before I had Caduceus assume one way or the other.

It's entirely possible there's at least one magically active individual on staff.  The warded room would suggest that.

Hrmm, there's a warded room? Not sure when that was posted but my guess is that it's the mage/shaman we're looking for. Depends on whether it's a patient room or a staff room though.

Mending the Shadows#24

Caduceus did an astral sweep.  Our target isn't anywhere else, so by elimination, she must be there.  It's a patient room  You've got directions and a description of the building layout.  There's only 6 other rooms, so it shouldn't be too hard to pop over when you're done your "consult".

Roger that. My money's on it being the target.

Well that, or I'm asking for my money back from my fixer . . . :>

FYI, while Duck can be tempramental, this move is not. I work in the medical industry and most front desk clerks prioritize irate people with money, especially if they're willing to pay up front. Hoping that was still the case in the 80's or whenever the module was written. :P

No worries.  I just had an idea OOC and wanted an IC excuse to change my planned action.  Grumbling at you seemed highly IC . . . :>

I believe Caduceus's max clairvoyance range is roughly 60 feet.

Suggestions for further questions? I already plan on having Duck ask her more about the whereabouts of the two she mentioned, but maybe you guys have something you'd like to get clarification on/add?

Maybe ask about the barrier?  Did she set it up to keep people out, or did someone set it up to keep her in astrally?  Not sure it matters much either way though, so it's up to you.  Do we have her phone number for later?

I expect she created the barrier herself to avoid being tracked.  I'd like any info she has abou Cooperman in general - abilities, cyberware, tendencies, etc.  Any info she has about the chips or run orc would be good too.

quote:

Duck, you're at the back of the building inside a room. You may have heard some street noise, but unless you've got exceptional hearing, I doubt you know more than "something vehicular sounds like it's happening outside" - certainly not that he accelerated to hit me :>

Oh, pshaw. It just so happens that Duck not only has enhanced hearing, but select sound filtration as well.:P Of course, Duck never told CH this, so I posted it in that way to sort of make her wonder how in the hell he figured that out, haha.

Fair enough :>

Nice.

Show off :P

Sorry to seem out-of-the-loop, but uh, what's in that briefcase anyway?

No-one knows other than CH so far.  Spare sandwiches? ;>

So it's like that briefcase from pulp fiction then, got it.

We don't have a rules discussion thread, so I wanted to propose a couple of changes around how ramming works.

1. I'd like to adopt the alternative damage rules from Rigger R3.  Rather than the damage category (L/M/S/D) being driven by speed, it's driven by relative size.  So if a Semi hits a pedestrian, the semi's damage level starts at L and the human's starts at D, regardless of speed.  (Power would continue to be based on speed, so a human can survive a slow-moving semi hit and the semi's grill would be fine too.)

2. I think the target of a ramming attempt should be able to do something to reduce the severity of the impact, avoid the attack, or at least ensure the attacker suffers some too.  Obviously it's harder to avoid being hit when someone wants to hit you than it is to avoid, but it should be possible, particularly if you're a skilled driver or have positional advantages.  My thought is that the victim of a ramming attack gets to make a driver roll too, but with a +2 modifier.  Any successes they make can be used to either counter the attacker's successes (possibly eliminating the ram entirely, or at least increasing the damage the rammer is going to take) or, alternatively, to be used to reduce the damage they suffer by changing the point of impact.

What this means is that a more maneuverable or skilled driver (who does better on their driving test) will have a better chance of avoiding being rammed or taking damage from the attack.

Thoughts?

I'm open to it. I did realize, reading the rules again, that once that sedan was in range, you did not have any chance to avoid getting hit (assuming the sedan makes her roll). It would be one of those actions that you don't have access to if surprised, of course.

Agree re: surprise.

The other thing that would be useful is to be able to apply net successes to stage up damage.  That gives an interesting dynamic of whether you use successes to reduce damage to your own vehicle or stage up damage to the target.  (or to throw more control pool dice into the crash to give you enough successes to do both).  That way a bike that slams into a semi in just the right way by someone who's skilled could theoretically crack wratch the cooling system and cause the engine to seize while catapulting over the cab and be none the worse for wear - but don't count on it . . . :>

Anyone else have feedback or thoughts?

As a proud, years-long owner of Rigger 3, I would like to add in that after all these years, I still find all of the vehicular combat rules thoroughly confusing. That said, I have very little clue as to what that whole discussion was about and would like to abstain. :P

I'm still learning how shamans work, so I will leave vehicular rulings to the experts.  The parts I understood seemed to make sense though.

Careful, guys, I have an OOC suspicion that that *thunk* might have been explosives. Hope we don't all bite it here.

Yeah, the vehicle rules are terrible, and I (secretly) mess them up pretty much every time I use them. There's a reason why the first action in combat was for the other vehicle to crash.

I agree the thunk is likely a grenade.  I was expecting that, which is why I planned to blow the concussion grenade when they came past.  I didn't realize they were coming up so fast.  My first priority will be to scrape that sucker off.  (Probably safer than shooting it off with the drone)

The vehicle rules aren't great.  The R3 ones are generally horrendous, though I do think the crash damage level one from there make sense.

If Copperhead can, she'd like to take a hard right into an upcoming alley with the aim of eliminating line of sight from the shooter.  She scanned the area ahead of time with her drone and she has the Pathfinder edge, if that helps.  Let me know a) if that's possible and b) what phase I can do it on.

Should I be rolling for initiative again yet?  Or should I still wait a bit as other things get sorted?

Yes to everything asked.

CH, you can take evasive measures immediately and hope you're right. You can also take a simple action to examine in detail, have a pretty good idea, and act on that (or you can wait for one of your team mates to send you intelligence).

I'm confused again :>

Yes to what exactly?  I can hope I'm right about what?

What I'm waiting for right now is:
1. What happened as a result of the altered CT2?  Did I hear/feel/see anything get scraped off the van after my close pass with the light stand?  Did the biker go down?

2. Is there an upcoming alley/street I can turn into and if so, on what combat phase can I do that?  I shouldn't have to observe in detail - I know where I am and I've got a mini-map of the area in my head.  I'm just asking what's there and how long to get to it.

Yes turning is possible (since we're not using maps, rather than get into another geography confusion, I'll just say "turning to block LOS"). But you're working on your best-guess for where the shooter is located. It would be unfortunate if you turned into an alley next to the shooter, rather than one around the bend.

I'm not going to change the results of the previous turn. It's just too much for me to go back and readjust everyone's actions. You'll still be going first, so you can make an attempt to scrape off whatever is on the van. You can decide if you want to chase the bikes, or if you want to duck down the alley and hope the bikes do (or don't) come back around. I can say, the current actions you chose were probably the right ones (assuming scraping is successful). Your attackers knew you drive a big van, and disabling that was their first priority. Neutralizing four attackers in a car with unknown hidden cargo is probably a good first step. The bikes can only really hurt you if they get close, and all your team mates are currently inside or out of reach.

(Also worth noting, Caduceus did not actually tell you he heard anything, so if I felt like being really mean, I'd say scraping is meta-gaming :P )

Well, I know the shooter is on a building behind the clinic.  The clinic is behind me on my left.  So if I turn right, that should put me away from the first shooter - though I acknowledge they may not be the only ones.  The other reason for turning right is my understanding is that I've got a box truck trying to keep pace on my left, making turning that way harder.

I missed that it was only Caduceus that hear the thunk and that he didn't relay that information.  If I don't know it's there, I certainly won't do anything about it.  (Though I suspect the lack of relaying information may have been due to the churn of my figuring out what was going on - he still had a simple action and not much else to do about it.  He can indicate whether he )

My initial post for CT3 was about getting up to speed and ramming the bikes - which wasn't possible.  I hate to waste a full 3 phased because of an incomplete description of the circumstances I was in.  We're not revisiting what I did to the car, only what I do with one of the bikes (and, depending on whether Caduceus decides he told me about the thunk, whether the device is still attached or not).

However, if that's still too hard, I'll stop whining and move onto CT4 . . .

If it sounded like something had actually attached to the vehicle, Caduceus would have pointed it out.

What actions does Caduceus still have?  I thought he used them all already, except for one free action which he used to retroactively inform Copperhead of the object on her vehicle.

This is the next turn, so Caduceus has a full complex action, or two simple actions. Considering your view of the scene, this would be a great time to sling some magic. The sedan seems to be in trouble, but it could come back into play, and you still have LOS on the ork with the AK (but neither seem to be serious threats). The motorcycle driver seems to be down. You can act against any other vehicles on the scene. You can try for the sniper, but it's a stretch, or possibly help Noruas (if you do, you would pre-empt Noruas getting to the top of the ladder).

Assuming Nouras spots the sniper, does that put me climbing the correct building?

Ok.  I wasn't sure if Copperhead's RV had windows, or just her monitors.  (I assume it at least has the appearance of windows from the outside though.)  Caduceus has a penalty for casting magic during combat, so he may stick with spirits and physical abilities.  Depends on what happens.  I'll work on my next post right now though.

So I have my actions from last turn, then roll initiative again and post actions for this turn, correct?

You would be correct.

Post your actions for this turn I'm closing up, initiative (if you want, otherwise I roll it for you), and your actions for the next turn.

Not sure if Noruas let us know he was climbing the building.  If he did, asking a spirit to protect him might be good.

He had his first spirit use Concealment and Guard on Noruas when he first conjured it.

Going back through, I don't see that.

Here is the post with the important bits in bold.  I had to go back and double check it myself too before my previous post.

Thanks for saving my hoop Caduceus!  I thought I was a goner there!

Does concealment affect the target number to hit someone or only to notice them?

I don't quite remember, but I thought there was an agreement on one or the other in one of the earlier discussions.

Concealment will add to the shooter's TN to see Noruas. (Guard just protects Noruas from accidents--probably handy when racing up a ladder.)

So was the concealment taken into account when you ruled that Noruas was seen? or is he still taking a rifle shot to the chest?

I did not account for it. I will be updating the post today.

Yo boss, would I be able to close to melee distance and strike at this point, or am I too far away to do so? I'd really like to close in here and chuck this chick off the roof for hitting my stubby-legged friend AND damaging CH's ride, but I don't want to put myself in a compromised position.

You can close the distance.

If he gets in the way, Copperhead probably won't shoot him . . . ;>

Anybody on the team got healing skills?  Paging a doctor, dying dwarf on roof two...I repeat, dying dwarf on roof two...

Oh, and GOOO White Duck!  Do me a favor and slice her up already!

I do have medic skills.

We also happen to be outside of a clinic that is already known for patching up runners.

There is that.  And we could argue we were defending the clinic . . .

Sounds good to me.  Now, if your drone could give me a lift down to the clinic....

So, how much damage am I taking anyways?  Am I not supposed to be dead already?  This IS a sniper rifle, right?  Don't they do 12-14 Serious or Deadly?

Caduceus has Heal 6 and Stabilize 4 as well, but it would take him a bit to get to you Noruas.

Edit: I guess I could send my new spirit to bring you down to the ground, maybe, but do I even know that you've been shot yet?
Edit 2: Or maybe I could Levitate you down, if it comes to that.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:27, Sat 04 June 2016.

I don't think it was a sniper rifle.  A regular rifle is bad enough.  The real trouble is the 8 successes.

In general, we want to get you to a medic first to do first aid and then heal you with magic after.  However, if you take deadly damage, it's going to be hard not to have you out of commission for the rest of the run.  So this is definitely the time to throw all your combat pool at dodging and re-roll failures with Karma.

The drone couldn't handle your weight.  And I'm not sure there's any Shaman-summonable spirit that can levitate.  So we'll either have to carry you or let Caduceus levitate you.

The 8-success shot misfired (thanks to Caduceus's accident power)--which means all that combat pool she threw into it she couldn't use. By the time she did shoot, she had wound penalties, plus was saving her combat pool, and Noruas had partial cover. Rather than take the +4 penalty for the partial cover and risk missing, she shot through the wall, giving Noruas some pretty significant armor. Even with all that, it comes down to a Moderate wound, mostly from shrapnel.

Copperhead, you said you took a simple action to change ammunition. I double checked how long it takes to change magazines, and that seemed right, so I didn't argue :)

I don't think it'll make a huge difference now anyway--White Duck has it in hand, and your focus is probably better set on the limo.


Caduceus:
So per canon, a nature spirit can manifest inside of a moving vehicle and wreck that all up. However, in the house rules thread we did change that:
"Finally, spirits are limited as to where they can go.  Spirits can only go somewhere where the caster has been previously, or where the spirit could fly or walk to on the physical plane (disregarding armed guards who can shoot at them).  This is to prevent a caster giving an elemental an order to appear in the locked security room of a facility and break everything there, but still allows them a wide range of motion.  They can get past closed doors by manifesting, opening the door, then returning to the astral (or in the case of air elementals, they can simply flow in the cracks around the door).  They can appear outside of a locked door, bash it in, then proceed, and can appear outside of a ward, fight the ward, and pass on, but cannot otherwise appear on the other side of the barrier."

Considering you rely heavily on Copperhead's van, this helps you a lot more than it hinders. However, for your spirit to attack the rigger directly, it needs a way to access the interior of the vehicle, such as attacking the windshield. Since the vehicle is armored, this may be tricky. Alternatively, you can act against the vehicle directly, such as by causing an Accident.