How do I change it back?

Hahahahahhahahahhahha!

You don't. This is the responsive version of the site and is the only version going forward.
Takes some time to get used to, but I don't dislike it as much as I first did.

In reply to aguy777 (msg # 3):

im getting tired of every damn website forcing unneccessary changes like this. This new ui is crap. I didnt like what steam did either.

The mods gave us a heads up more than a year ago, and they've gone to great lengths to: (a) explain why the changes were necessary, (b) give everyone ample time to test drive the new site, and (c) allow us the opportunity to offer feedback.

As 1492 said, they've explained it and made changes with everyone's feedback.
They also gave everyone ample warning. Aside from the heads-up that the change would eventually be happening from years ago, they also changed the banner on the site to provide a concrete date (the 23rd) a full month in advance.

They are not unnecessary changes, as was explained by jase on a number of occasions.

Is there a way to prevent page elements from changing as I move my mouse? E.g. links that move up just before I click them because above it something has now been hidden.

Can things be set to always show?

Can we setup custom CSS to fix these type of UI elements?
This message was last edited by the user at 16:37, Wed 27 Dec 2023.

Hmm I logged in and had forgotten this was changing. It still had my old colour scheme at least. Then I went into my preferences to see if I could change the layout and put the menu buttons along the top, but that didn't seem to be there. I noticed that the "Character Portraits" and "RMail enabled" options didn't seem to have been selected as either "on" or "off" so I tried clicking to edit them. Nothing happened so I clicked on "Update details" and while they did both now show up as "on" it also cleared my colour scheme to the horrible plain white one, and even selecting "Light green" doesn't bring back the one I had before (I think it was just called "Green"). The custom one has tons of different boxes for colour values of different things. I couldn't find any way to undo the change I had accidentally made so I think I've lost my green background now, unless anyone knows how to get it back? I tried changing the background colour but as I don't know what values it was I couldn't get it looking even vaguely pleasant :(.

The custom theme screen seems to deselect your chosen background image every time one tries to adjust something - be sure to put that back on every time you mess with stuff or it defaults to white again. The box above it is the one that controls the main background colour, but it also forms the default for drop down boxes and so on, so no comfortable mid-shades if you want to read anything. Just takes a load of fiddling around, I think, alas.

Suspect there isn't a way to put the menu boxes back where they should be because everything's geared towards intelligent telephones these days, but if I'm wrong I'd sincerely like to know. Heh, my only non-desktop device is a secondhand iPad so old I can't see player login times for my own games on it no matter how much I tap or hover.

where, because ive been on rpol for about 10 years and didnt see strudel the last year and a half about changes

also, I wanted so bad to report your first stupid reply (which was just a laugh) and if they felt any change was neccessary it should have been to make this stupid site more user friendly instead of less... like with a report button.
This message was last edited by admin, as it was against the ToU, at 16:12, Wed 27 Dec 2023.

I think you'd have to be active in the Development forum, which says at the top not to hang out there if you don't like changes. I'm just glad they put a general notice at the top of the site for a week, even if the changeover ate the new theme I'd made on the responsive side.

In reply to Shinoskay (msg # 11):

There is really no need to be this aggressive towards anyone here... people are allowed to laugh, you don't know what they laughed about (whether about the situation or at you or your post) and just because you didn't see the posted disclaimer that was literally at the top of the front page it doesn't mean it wasn't communicated.

The admins are literally doing this for free. Maintaining and running this website out of the goodness of their heart. With the occasional donation from equally good-hearted people to keep it running.

If you don't like it... that is unfortunate. However, if you think you can do it better for no money... then go and do it better.

The first I heard about this was a month ago, long past too late to make any recommendations or bring up any structural issues.  Sure, I recall talk about a mobile site, or something similar, years ago but that has been going on for years with nary a peep as to what was planned and never anything about an actual imminent change until November.  SO I would disagree with your characterization.

I get that anything new will have good and bad, things people like and dislike, and there is always resistance to something new.  However, having grown up when coding HTML was a thing, site designers seem to long ago have forgot the golden rules of site design.  The first of which is the value of real estate.  What shows up on your screen when you open a site is Prime and shouldn't be wasted.  One of the best things about the original site was being able to see everything on one screen (especially on PC).  That is now gone and I need to scroll to see everything.  And having mouse-overs to get basic information and flip back and forth if I want to compare is a pain.  In the end, whatever, I'll figure it out, but even after using it for a month, I find it a much less pleasurable experience.

Being dismissive toward people who had no say in this and are now experiencing a lot of issues isn't really helpful nor does it make the changes seem less problematic.

 I Like the old site... everyone knows that.. I bragged  about it  to folsk on other  sites( which made some  folks on other sites  mad..who cares?)

 when we were first told  about the  Responsive site, I was worried..what would i lose?  would my players  be able to come to the new  site..would  i?

 The big thing , when i switched over..I was crestfallen. the site looked like some of the screen the  lesser site have....BUT... i started  to mess around with preferences  Got  color  on my pages, I'm getting sued to where the tools  are..mIt will take me  another week or so before i can  be as quick here  as the old site.

 One thing  i will  say?.. I played Mass effect  through the years (alot)..Played  Fall out games,  played Madden games..and a couple other   games  that   had  sequels

 almost every  new release. The  developers  changed something...Dialouge  wheels, equipment  choices, loads you carry, travel ect ect ect. we all go used to them. we'll get used to thinks here.

 I had the people in my games  switch over on the 20th, so  we could talk abut changes..  I think, maybe..half? of  mu people where on the responsive  site and didn't know it! So..yeah? we'll be good.

In reply to shinanai (msg # 13):

wtf? screw that noise. you are mental if you think a post thats JUST laughing, not even an lol or a short hahahah but instead a LONG drawn out laugh is acceptable and some how not mockish or aggressive. Go away.

thats another thing, they give us crap ui but I still cant block people. What its so stupid and this is why rpol is basically populated by the same 30 people and you see one or two guys posting the same games... taking up half the players wanted list... and so many people jumped ship from this place years ago.

just because you dont like what im saying about the UI doesnt mean you can come at me like im an idiot or like im the ass hole. No.

@donsr thats great but I already looked in preference and there are almost no options, that was the first thing I did.
the change was sudden and its unintuitive.

 Howdy, Shino.. well.. I don't know  what you mean. I am not a very high tech guy. some of my players  post great pics..I  only know how to use links..so..I guess i'm basic.

  do i miss the old site. Yep. but this is growing on me, i have  what i want thus  far, if something  comes up, I'll be in the forums  and some one will have an answer.

  folks  just need to change perspective. Any brand new  folks coming in, will be seeing this site for the first time, and learn the ins  and outs. Those of us  who have been  with this site ( and I have been for  a long while ).,just got to  leave the  'old site' behind. I mean? I have all the old threads. I have  my lists ..right now. its all about 'the look' and the preferences.

 If  i can  get into this 'new'  site, everyone else should have   a lot less   problems integrating, because  i am tech-struggling  type of guy.

Excuse me for the question, but what does "ui" stand for?

I guess it means the new presentation of the board, but I don't know its exact meaning (English is not my native language).

Perhaps donsr, but whether youve managed or not doesnt change that its not intuitive.

Lluis, UI is user interface.

Thanks

Neither was the old one, tbh, I learned where everything was over years of using it and still couldn't find some things and had to ask or check the help section. And honestly, a lot of things that people describe as "intuitive" actually isn't, but it's simply something they learned how to use over time. I found my Samsung Galaxy UI intuitive... my husband found Apple mobile OS intuitive. When I switched from Samsung to my now iPhone, it was anything BUT intuitive. I had to ask him about how to do most things... including how to take screenshots. It doesn't mean that iOS is trash... it's just different, but ultimately both have similar functions, just differently executed. It's not a perfect analogy, but hey... just trying to give some perspective.

 yep... My daughter Got Me  an Iphone a few years ago, for her  Youngest daughter to  zoom with me. I had Andriods  up 'till then. it took me  a while, I still have some issues, I have to ask one of  my granddaughters  who live  with their Dad  and me.. " hey..show me how to do this"

 They roll thier  eyes..the middle  one will make fun, But i always thrown out the old chestnut "..hey?   we had to  teach  you to eat and go to the bath room!".. they get embarrassed and   shut up!

 In the end..Like it or  dislike it  we'll all get used to it. I mentioned  about another site i'm on for 1 game..i have been asked to joined others, and asked to run some..but no way in hell... For me? that site is horrendous. For me, its hard to navigate  , I hate the posting..the color thing, the dice roller is  terrible. and god forbid you need to   edit a post!... PMs  have  a limit( unless you pay to play there, then the limit is higher)... I have a direct link to my game.. and that's all i use..and only since i been in the game  since  the   early 90s...they had to move to their new  site, because the other  one crashed every 5 minutes.

 all the  way back since  AOL chatroom games, this is by far, the best site i've ever been on..and why its  easy for  me to shrug off  some of the stumbling blocks.

Can we keep it civilised?  I'd like to have an open discussion about what's "wrong" but open hostility is going to get the thread locked and then nobody wins.

Firstly there's been discussion on the development forum for years and though I grant it went stale for a long time there was ample opportunity for everyone to provide feedback and give ideas.  Either the initial threads or the last two months.  If you didn't contribute then that's your right but claiming there was not any opportunity to is disingenuous.

Not everyone reads that forum which is also fair enough, which is why there's been a notice in the main menu for years.  Again it's been updated three times in the last two months to grab attention plus I posted on the announcements forum which is forced into everyone's list when a post is made.  So again claiming there was no notification is clearly not true.

Oh, there was also a poll.

As to the topic at hand, happy for constructive feedback but there's very little of that here.  Saying it's awful gives zero insight into what the underlying issues are and just adds noise; overall it's a disservice to the site, other members and (if you do have something of value to add) to yourself.

Reasons for the change are well documented in the development forum and also the announcement that some have clearly ignored or failed to read.  As mentioned many times we were far outside all typography recommendations and using ancient layout techniques.  Though I realise many were used to seeing everything on one page in a tiny font... it's actually slower reading as well a causing fatigue and eye strain.  Not only that but search engines actively punish websites that are not created with modern techniques and have a mobile friendly version.

So with that all said, how can the new site be improved?

The 'old site' had a banner at the top for over 18 months suggesting people try the new site. I moved almost as soon as I joined.
And from 6 months ago there was more than sufficient info from the mods that the site would move.
I assume that those complaining of 'no warnings' only bothered to read their game threads and ignored all the new posts in both the General RPol, RPol Development, and Technical Discussions threads.

yep  Larson.. we  were warned..the banner  was there. some mentions in the forums. Me? I was staying on the oldsite as long as i was able. Then sent  my people  to the   new site.

 it really isn't a big deal.  Had i lost all my   htreads. yeah.. that would have been bad to lose the  ship loads of Posts  my games have..but they are there, i can check them for  names and  events  as the games  go one. so.. out of  my comfort zone, but it will become the  'new" comfort'

Yeah. I was definitely warned, I just didn't like it (but I knew that simply announcing my desire to stick with the old would be futile due to the desire for a mobile-friendly site, even at the expense of the Glorious PC Master Race PC users).

My main issues are:

1: The old DarkGreen background didn't migrate over to the new site - it's just a black background (and since it's a wallpaper, there's no customizing it back in).
2: The thread details section of the fora is in way too small font - it takes seriously looking in to notice how many replies are in a thread, when that used to be instantly noticeable.

In reply to Larson Gates (msg # 24):

Heh, yes, and I was whining to get the banner with a button to hide it because I grew tired of seeing it every time I checked in! (Thanks BTW)

Sorry it feels like you woke up to a surprise, but it's been a very long time coming.

Lots just need this thread to vent, so hopefully we keep civil. If not for a herd of 400 cattle running over my old phone a year ago, forcing me to finally upgrade from 2008 technology, I'd still be upset with the change too, which I voiced in the dev forum years ago after the survey. Time marches on and so does tech.

In reply to shinanai (msg # 21):

I wont neccessarily disagree but the UI was at least simple and condensed. you could see everything and it was clear how to navigate.
You had to figure it out a little but it was basically a kid handed a table with holes and given some shapes kinda challenge, maybe you didnt have instructions but a little bit of pattern recognition got you through it.

this one is just obtuse. The list format makes it so you actually have to navigate for a game. The only improvement I see so far is that it makes it more clear how many new posts there are in a game... but honestly thats kind of a useless feature.

the banner wasnt obvious, or whatever they did to alert us the last week. I mean, strawberry flan man, most of us were doing christmas stuff.

And while I cant speak for everyone, I myself only venture beyond players wanted for the gm wanted thread..... and only go beyond that in situations like this were im asking what the hell.
This message was last edited by admin, as it was against the ToU, at 23:45, Wed 27 Dec 2023.

::chuckles::   I can see that Shino..when i got on here, I was taking care of  my Late  wife  and   working  all day as a letter carrier. I would never check more then the  'players  wanted".. after My wife  passed  would look for games, and  it seemed every week one  would fold up, or GMs ghosted us.

 so?.. I started GMing...a year or so after , I made my own system to use..and  then, I did look at all the  thr4eads that were highlighted.. in case folks  had questions  i could answer, or I could ask.

so? Bottom line.. everyone uses these sites  different.. you might reach out  or not, depending on your needs  and  skill level....again? folks will adjust, i can't see  any others   that are better... i tries to get the folks who  run the game on the other site to come here..for some reason, they swear by that other site..me?  I swear at it!

 I alos don't belong there.. they have a  tiered system there.. if you are a supporter..you get  perks, you get to vote for things ..if you are like me..  I'm just a plyer that helpes the game keep running..

 RPOL..i donate , once  or twice  a year, because i like it..and i know what i can afford.. there is  no 'calls' thing.. for those  who  donate, and those who do not.

anyway.. a bit off track.. But hang in there Shino..you'll be  fine.

Issue #1 you can definitely fix if you go into the Preferences section (on the righthand side, on the main home screen) and select the 'custom theme' link on the upper righthand side under your 'Settings'. That will allow you to custom-color basically everything as you wish. It can take some time to fiddle with, but it's pretty easy (if long!) and you will most likely find something that you like even better than the basic old themes - I know I did.

#2 you -might- be able to adjust by tweaking the 'maximum page width' option (it's one of the settings in the custom theme selections) to be wider than default. I'm not sure if that will make the font any larger, but I too struggle with tiny text and I've not noticed the thread details being difficult to read (although I do have my page width set MUCH higher than default, which is why I suspect maybe that will make a difference.)

Hope that helps!

I guess as I’m getting older I feel less easy with changes, but that’s my problem, not board’s. So  I will wait until I played for a time to really opine, as I will probably (I hope) adapt to it, and only when I have, I will be able to make my opinion.

OTOH, I want to congratulate the staff as I see no major issues with the change. In other boards I’m user such changes have given issues as broken links, broken quotes, and so.


I agree with this, though, as not only the number of posts is difficult to find and read, but also the GM’s name or the system used. I guess I will get used to it with time, but the size of the letter is too small (or my sight is getting worse with age)

It doesn't. The background for Dark Green was not a solid color, so the new format can't replicate it.
This message was last edited by the user at 22:37, Wed 27 Dec 2023.

Try "page background image:"

I sincerely apologize for offending you @Shinoskay.

When I read your OP, I honestly thought you were joking, and it was hilarious, so I laughed long and hard.

When your follow up post made clear you were serious, I recalibrated and tried to offer a straightforward response. From where I sit, the transition to the new site has been THE topic of conversation on here for months, not just in the Development threads, but in all five games that I've been playing in. It did not occur to me that someone who's the least bit active on the site could possibly be unaware.

Clearly I was mistaken. So I ask your forgiveness, and I wish you the best for the New Year.

@1492: Thanks for that follow-up post and apology. I thought the original post on this thread by @shinoskay was in jest as well and was just a vent about the new site. The Responsive site has been a point of discussion (and contention) in all my campaigns for at least a month - since the notice on the main page warned us the changeover was coming. I did not like the change initially but am getting used to it since switching over to the new interface several weeks ago - before we had no choice. Thanks, Jase, for all of the work involved.

In particular, I'm going to miss that the "Thread Details" information in Players Wanted (and similar folders) is not broken out into columns any more, where it was easy to just scan down a column of names to see GM names, as opposed to the just undifferentiated mush of information that makes up the Thread Details now.  Definitely way harder to read.  And I'm especially going to miss not having a post count displayed on the Players Wanted page, it was very useful to be able to distinguish at an intuitive glance whether a game was newly posted or whether it's been recruiting for 300 "bump" posts.

... poster child for feedback here.  Nobody ever noticed, or at least commented, that it was missing.  Have added it back in plus rearranged the layout a teensy bit.

That's awesome, thanks Jase!  :)

Though even better, would it be possible to break out the information in first line of each of the Thread Details into spacing that could be uniform between rows?  So like, instead of having each entry of the Thread Details formatted as:


... could they be separated out with uniform spacing like:


... so it would be like looking at separate columns of information?  That would make the page way easier to read.

Picking up on a couple of the issues raised:


I had the same problem ... Custom Themes in the new interface have a LOT more entries compared to the old site, so it loads what it can from your existing saved theme but any values that weren't present before will be blank.  To fix, just edit your custom theme and look for any labels coloured in red alongside an empty field and set a value.

The specific value you're after for the options you mention is the on/off toggle button selections, background on selected under Overall site settings.


I assume you're talking about the Cast List from a GM perspective ?  The most important information displayed on mouse-over is probably Groups ... if so, it's a LOT easier to go into the GM Menu instead of the Cast List then click on Edit Groups, to see all PC/NPC groups all at once (one extra click compared to old site, but you can update from the same screen if necessary).

This message was deleted by admin, as it was against the ToU, at 09:50, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

  :;chuckles::  wow?  i guess that could be classified as  a 'karen"...if the layer goes to a brand new site, they will have to learn'all new  everything"

 here?  all we have to learn  is where some things  goy moved to?  we are stepping onto a brand  new ship, that is   a class  higher then the one we sailed on before?  If  we ha da choice?  you bet i'd go back to the old one...but  i like this site, and  i am getting 'cozy' with   as i post

 I hope the player  is ok? because it sounds like . way deeper  issues  then the site move.

@Jase

It's a minor gripe, but I'm not super-thrilled with the fact that the sidebar ("this thread," "post a reply," "this forum," etc) shifts with the rest of the page. I haven't paid attention to it in games, but it's a bit disconcerting to watch it shift when I scroll down through notes. (That said, it's even larger in games, so I don't know if anything can be done - I'm not exactly the next Bill Musk or Elon Jobs or whatever.)

Not sure why you're surprised - we've been moderating out bad language in our public forums for about twenty years, and will continue to do so.

As for the new UI... I disliked it at first, so much so that I looked at it when it was first set up, then pretended it didn't exist for a couple of years.  Yes, I'm old, and I hate change.  But I'm getting used to the new look now.

Most of the site functions still work the same way at the user level - you click in the right place (all of which are marked) and something opens up so you can do the thing you want to do - it just looks different.

Biggest change for me is moderating: now I have to look where stuff is before I tell people how to find it... used to have it all memorised.
This message was last edited by the user at 08:35, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

This message was deleted by admin, as it was against the ToU, at 09:54, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

This message was deleted by admin, as it was moot, at 09:54, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

In reply to Traveling Gamer (msg # 42):

Besides some initial scrolling as the header hides, it should remain static (along with the top navigation bar).

In reply to jase (msg # 46):

Respectfully, I think you are misunderstanding, as I believe Traveling Gamer is referring to precisely the fact that the position is sticky (similarly to the top navigation bar, it is vertically offset relative to its scrolling ancestor which in this case seems to be a container spanning the entire page minus the header; the exact opposite of static in this context). I'll piggyback off of this to say that on my laptop screen (1920x1080, firefox browser) the stickied sidebar is too tall for everything to be displayed simultaneously, so the 'Your account' menu only appears after I scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. Not a huge deal, as I don't anticipate I'll need to use the 'Your account' menu very often, but the behavior is a bit unfortunate.

The arrangement of the 'Your account' options is also different when viewing the home page or a board ('Relog' and 'Logout' appear at the bottom of the list; correct arrangement in my opinion) compared to viewing a thread ('Relog' and 'Logout' appear at the top of the list; wrong arrangement). I suspect this is just an oversight.

Edit: I also notice that it seems to be obscuring some text the Home | Forum | Top links at the bottom: https://i.imgur.com/AZhaiy1.png
This message was last edited by the user at 11:35, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

H'mm ... I confess don't know much about displays, but I'm running 1920 x 1080 resolution in a Firefox browser with some additional menu items that we mods get and my side bar is only about 75% of the way down the screen.   I'm on a 24" monitor on a PC, but I thought that the 1920 x 1080 resolution basically scales the display so you get the same area no matter what the screen size (it's just bigger on the PC/smaller on the laptop) ?

If my understanding is right, then just throwing out ideas here trying to explain it ... you're not running with a zoom > 100% OR any accessibility setting are you (Settings | Ease of Access | Change the size of apps and text on the main display) ?  Just a thought.

And since we're all guests in jase's virtual house, a timely reminder of the rules that govern all our Public Forums: /help/?t=faqs&page=pfrules

Apologies if this is not the appropriate thread for this. It is perhaps better served for the RPoL Development forum, but I figured I'd reply here since parts of my message pertained an earlier post in this thread.

I agree that monitor size shouldn't influence the amount of contents displayed, only the aspect ratio should. But just in case it does matter, I am on a 15" laptop. And zoom = 100%, so no problem there. I'm not able to locate the 'Ease of Access' setting you describe, but I don't remember tinkering with that when I constructed my custom themes for both the r.rpol (pre migration) and rpol (post migration) sites.

I should have specified, but this occurs for a game where I am GM, so that adds a few options to the 'This game' menu, which causes the issue. It looks to be about 60% percent for this specific thread, and neither does it seem to be a problem where I participate as a player.
This message was last edited by the user at 12:57, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

<grins> Probably should be in RPoL Development, but we want to resolve error so your constructive feedback helps with that and we're here now.  :>

That said, if anyone else does have errors, Gemcluster is correct - please post 'em in RPoL Development in the New site design thread link to a message in another game as that's where they should be and that's where jase'll go first.   And any suggestions for improvements, same forum link to another game, but please start a new thread for each suggestion.

Bear with my while I boot my ancient laptop to see if I can recreate ...

Respectfully, I'm also running a 1920x1080 resolution (using Chrome), and the full entire sidebar is viewable for me, even in games that have the Game Wiki link appear...so I think that what's at issue is perhaps browser-related and not RPoL-related.


I suspect that's on purpose. What's happening is that the 'This Forum/Game' block is replacing the 'Main Menu' block when you're actually viewing a Forum/Game. When on the main board there isn't a 'This Forum/Game' block available because you're not /in/ a forum. The location of the 'Your Account' block isn't actually changing. It's still in the secondary/tertiary (if your rMail indicator is up) position in both.

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 52):


Yes, it seems like this is only a problem in games where I am GM. Although, I am not ruling out that the problem is related to my browser or specific set-up! :)


I am referring to the list of options within the block, not the block itself. It gets shuffled depending on whether you're viewing the main menu / a forum or a thread.
This message was last edited by the user at 13:09, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

In reply to Gemcluster (msg # 53):

Sorry, I should have clarified that I'm also a GM with the full-complete-all-the-options available sidebar for those where they're fitting for me. I'm still leaning towards browser!

...and you are 100% right on the list within the block. I'd never noticed that! My bad! :D

This message was deleted by the user at 21:49, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 54):

Yes, it does seem to kind of be a problem with the browser, as the issue is raised when your window is short enough on the y-axis. I say kind of, becauise my configuration of Firefox is bog-standard, with one row for tabs, one for the search bar / options, and one for bookmarks. It does seem like getting rid of the bookmarks tab would grant enough space for it to work properly, but that is hardly an appropriate workaround :S

In reply to Gemcluster:

Well that was fun.  Yes, it took that long to boot up and get it to load what I wanted.  Laptop wasn't state of the art in 2007 when I got it and considerably less so now.  It's the backup device to my backup device for my PC, and since it won't run Windows 11, it only has to sit in the cupboard for another year before I'll grudgingly admit I'm never going to use it again.  :P

Max resolution available is 1280 x 800 and at that I do have to scroll right to the bottom to see the whole Your account block in the sidebar ... which suggests that at 1920 x 1080 there shouldn't be a problem.  But you've got one ...

... in Windows 10, try right clicking on the Start button, select Search option from the menu, type in "ease of access display settings" and see what you've got - default should be text set to minimum size and 'change the size of apps and text on the main display' should be at '100% (recommended)'.   Not sure where to find the same setting under Windows 11 or earlier versions/other OS but it'll be hiding somewhere.  :>

Edit: adding to Sunruaner's notes below - in a thread in a game I GM, in Firefox (this time on my PC at 1920 x 1080) the Your Account block just about fits when I'm at the very top of the screen - the Start a Game last option is slightly cut off, but I could still click on it (never have), but same mileage - whole sidebar top to bottom fits completely when I start scrolling down and it reverts to floating top menu.
This message was last edited by the user at 13:46, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

In reply to Gemcluster (msg # 56):

Hm. Dinking around, I did get my page to replicate SOME of that on Chrome, when I fully-maximized my browser (normally I have it windowed to about 3/4 of the monitor, so I can see a slice of what's running behind it down the lefthand side).

In a game thread, where I had the full slate of 4 GM options for 'This Thread' and 12 GM options for 'This Game' and then the 4 standard options for 'Your Account', it DID push the last two options for the Account section off the page...but only until I scrolled down one bump to knock the RPoL logo header off the screen (bringing the nav bar up to the top of the browser).

Still not as much pushed off as for you, I don't think, since you indicated that the entire Account section was knocked off instead of just half of it, and it never covered up the Home/Forum/Top links...but when fully-expanded it did knock off SOME. But I wouldn't consider it an issue in the case that presents for me, since it's really only apparent in game threads where I GM, and that one-notch bumpoff of the RPoL logo fixes it for me...so, not the same issue, alas.
This message was last edited by the user at 13:39, Thu 28 Dec 2023.

I just checked on my work laptop as well, same resolution, same screen size, same browser, same problem.


Windows 10, text is set to minimum on both PCs. Should be no issue there.

I've provided a screenshot of the issue, with some sensitive information blotted out (https://i.imgur.com/CpoKPlk.png). As you can see, the scroll bar is nearing the bottom and the 'Your account' block has yet to make its full appearance.


I don't consider this to be a particularly major issue in my case either, as I mentioned in my original post. Certainly not something the developer(s) should work up a sweat for!

Perhaps not major, but it's an oddity ... resolving this might help other users or indicate some other issue that needs fixing.  Or not - we won't know till we try.  :>

Now that is interesting.  Comparing your menu with mine and I notice immediately that your font is bigger.  We've ruled out Zoom and we've ruled out Ease of Access settings ... what else might cause that ?

Under Firefox Tools, Settings, General ... Language and Appearance ... Fonts, Advanced, you're not overriding the site fonts with your own choices are you ?

My settings shows:

Fonts for:    Latin

Proportional: Serif                       Size: 16
Serif:        Default (Times New Roman)
Sans-serif:   Default (Arial)
Monospace:    Courier New                 Size: 13

                             Minimum font size: None

And 'Allow pages to chose their own fonts, instead of our selections above' is ticked.

1920 x 1080 is the minimum I'm aiming for.  That said I've tightened up a little bit of spacing on the menu (as much as I could without starting to look cramped) so that'll help a little.  Haven't had any luck avoiding the sidebar hiding the footer but I'll continue to chip away at that.  With a game wiki active (but no rMail notification) GMs will start to have issues at about 970 pixels high.

  look folks?  I'm not good  at tech..I have players who are very good/great. its  been since the 20th , when i had  my people move over. yes? there  is getting sued to some placements.

 I changed the color   so the site looks better ( to me!)

 I have said this elsewhere... for years i got  ever  new Madden game that came out, I stopped after   Cam newton was  going to 'teach me how to pass"

 anyway..every game  they changed  something.. the way  you set your rosters... the way you build  a 'new team"  which  buttons did  what  ect ect... I love the Mass effect games.. played the whole thing through  4 or  5 times... each game had  changes  you had to get used to.. Fall out games were the same

 what am i saying?  Any upgrade  changes some things... and  if you go back to  the old war games that game in Boxes. there is 'errata '.. once  the tweaks  are  done, and players get used to  the   'face'..everythginwill be  fine... I mean? look at the old  site. it was  around for decades. and i saw people asking/complaining about something..

 welcome to your new home.  the furniture isn't  quite were it was. But   you can still sit in them!

In reply to Skald (msg # 60):

My settings show the same: https://i.imgur.com/haaNkhi.png

I don't know what's causing the incongruence, to be honest, but it seems jase is aware of it. I recognize it's not a trivial fix, so the effort to value conversion is potentially rather low, especially if it's an issue that only seems to affect parts of the userbase.

And I want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with what donsr's message! :)

Like many people, I wasn't even aware of the change until about a month ago; which was long after there was any room for suggestions or feedback.    Upon review, I suspect that we'll find most of the feedback over the past few years given primarily by "Yes Men".

I much, much prefer the old UI; as it was simple, clean, and straightforward.    As I've mentioned more than once, RPOL has lost much of what made it unique with the transition.  It now looks like just about every other forum out there, and it's going to take me a while to figure out all the changes...what with me having used the original UI for more than 20 years.

Yes, kids; I said 20 years.  I didn't then and still don't consider this to be a good change.

If we're "stuck with it", then please please PLEASE come up with a way to change back to the look of the old UI.

Realised that those using r.rpol.net were still using the test site which hasn't been getting a few tweaks.  You should now find you get redirected to plain rpol.net.


In reply to Hunter (msg # 64):

Quite the contrary, there was a lot of discussion and the main thread is about 800 posts long (plus other threads).  I recognise that the site is only as good as the members using it so to dismiss all my efforts on finding a fair compromise is a little insulting (to myself and the people who gave their input).  As I've said the main menu post was up for nigh on two months, plus years prior so it cannot be a surprise.  I realise many don't like change but to miscategorise the length of effort we've gone to is not constructive.

That said, all the functionality is still there (and more) so if you have some input in to how the change to the skin/facade of RPoL has made it lose what was unique then I'm all ears.  Keep in mind that unique doesn't necessarily mean good, as I heard every April 1st.

Hey jase...is there any way to put the r.rpol.net back up for a day or so in order to pull themes?

I had asked a few weeks back if we needed to port custom themes over, and you said that r.rpol.net should work for quite some time...so I hadn't done it yet. =(

...and now it's gone.

Copied it over for you, enjoy.

AWESOME!

Thanks jase! <3

Oops, same for me please. I didn't get mine pulled over.

I did state that I've only been aware of the (then proposed) changes for about a month and a half.  I'm quite aware of how much time and effort you've put into RPOL over the decades and would never seek to diminish that.   I clearly remember how much debate and consternation back when there was the need to change how Adult Games where handled...and have always felt that you've done a five-star plus job maintaining and improving the site: with the sole exception of how the UI was changed.  It felt and feels....unnecessary.  As the adage goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

What I specifically stated was that the look that was unique to RPOL has been lost.  The look and layout of RPOL before the change was both simple and brilliantly done.    The look and UI of RPOL was different from any other site out there, and as others have pointed out; it was worth bragging about.  That's no longer the case: I can go to other forum sites and find a very similar look and feel.   The "unique", as I've called it, is gone.

Before, all the information was plainly visible on every page of the site.    There wasn't any "hovering over" to look for details that used to be right in plain sight...and having to hunt for what used to be clearly visible is frustrating at best.   I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be to use now on mobile, as I've never gone that route myself.

This right here was literally the reason for the change. It's fantastic on mobile now.

It's actually much better to use on a mobile device than the old site.  Being fully responsive the biggest change is that the site formatting is always consistent.  Via mobile on the old site it was very easy to "break" a page if someone formatted a post poorly, or inserted a huge image, and editing character sheets was hit or miss as certain formatting setups would display properly when viewed, but during editing would begin to line wrap and do all sorts of other things that made life difficult.

The navigation menu on mobile is easy to use as it's always within thumb's reach no matter which page you're on, and the menu buttons are tap friendly with the way they expand and collapse.

Since moving to responsive I haven't accidentally removed a game from my list because I was pinching and zooming on the main page and accidentally clicked the "-" button, which used to happen a few times a year via the old site.

In reply to locojedi (msg # 69):

Done.


In reply to Locke1221 (msg # 71):

That was one of them and a big reason.  There was actually a bunch of reasons for the change and it wasn't even a case of "with all of them added together we needed to change" it was a case of "each one on its own was a reason for change".

Off the top of my head:

• Mobile experience.  Stats vary but mobile is at least 50% and up to 80%.
• We were using tables for layout.  Awful technique, search engines penalise heavily for it and (as many have stated) without fresh blood the vampi site will slowly wither.
• Design was from... well basically 2000.  Some of the HTML code was deprecated and could be removed from browsers at any point in time.  Font springs to mind.  Center, frame(set), tt (I think I've still got a bit of that actually, need to get rid of that!).
• Designs that aren't modern and mobile friendly are also penalised.
• Site had 100s of validation errors.  Now it's 1 error (which browsers actually support and is fully supported in HTML 5.2).
• Did I mention the design was old?  So old.  Created when there were no smart phones and PC screens were tiny, it's much the opposite now and continuing on the old design goal was crazy.  I'm being generous when I say design goal, there wasn't much planning or design involved.  Now we've got a different dynamic and a lot of literature on readability, eye strain, fatigue, reading speed, and accessibility.  Design/typography recommendations vary between 45 and 90 characters per line (90 is rare, normally around 75-80 at the top end) and accessibility recommendation from the W3C (the guys that release HTML/web standards) recommend a maximum of 80 characters.  To save you counting we're at about 125 characters per line.
  
  The initial design for responsive was about 90 characters in width but that had unanimous negative feedback in the discussion thread, so it was increased by just under 50%.  On the old site could read an entire paragraph on my 3440 width ultrawide monitor before but it was ridiculous and I'd have blink several times and take time to refocus at the end of each line.  I realise the width is probably one of the biggest "losses" but it's actually a gain for so many reasons.  I realise scrolling might seem slower but those who specialise in these things have done many a study and it's actually faster when reading a lot of text.. and I suspect that's a lot of what we do!

So anyway, it was very necessary.

In reply to jase (msg # 73):

As it's been said: If you try to please everyone, you invariably end up pleasing no one.

Yes, I understand it's necessary; and yes, I'll adjust.

Hah ! I've never been called a 'yes-man' before, and I've been here since jase turned the lights on !  I shall add that to my resumé !  :P

More words of wisdom (even if it is my dump stat) ... Ford is running a car advert on TV at the moment for a Mustang with an electric motor.  Blithely paraphrasing, they note that if they hadn't innovated and had only ever given people what they asked for, they'd still be trying to breed faster horses.


PS: Gemcluster - I refuse to admit defeat ! <grrins>  But if/when I think of something else to try, I'll rmail you to avoid annoying everyone else with my optimistic suggestions.  Optimistic !  Something else for my resumé !  ;>

In reply to Skald (msg # 75):

I'm often wrong...so don't read too much into it.   :D

It looks perfectly fine on mobile/tablet. I'm not a huge fan of it on my laptop version of Firefox but it's honestly something that can be tweaked in my browser settings for rpol specifically.

Worst case scenario, I can pester my boyfriend into using his dark tech magicks on my Firefox to make rpol fit my laptop screen better heh.

Thanks jase! Appreciated!

In reply to Skald (msg # 75):

But I want my trolley system back! :)

I've just came to a problem I've never had before, not sure if due to the Board change:

I tried to answer a post and quoted it. The post is 7 lines long, and my answer is about 3 lines long, and this message appeared:



As I had quoted long texts before an my answers were not always long too, I guess that's a new feature. Is this right? and if so, it's intentional?

Not an unsurmountable problem, I just quoted the first part of the post and added a (...) meaning that I was answereing to the whole post...
This message was last edited by the user at 18:30, Fri 29 Dec 2023.

That’s weird.

In reply to Lluis (msg # 80):

I tested it myself and it seems like the reply to anything you quote needs to be longer than the quoted post otherwise the error message pops up.

Another reminder: please post errors/issues with the Responsive update in RPoL Development in the New site design thread link to a message in another game as that's where they should be and that's where jase'll go first.   And any suggestions for improvements, same forum link to another game, but please start a new thread for each suggestion.

A question over quoting text was raised earlier over in the New Site Design thread, and was answered by jase:


Though he's indicated he's happy to discuss it separately - if someone wants to put forwards a suggestion (in a new thread, remember) so users can discuss.  Personally I don't like to have to read most of an existing post again, I just want the pertinent bits quoted, but I'm notoriously picky.  ;>

In reply to jase (msg # 67):

EDIT: Nevermind. :)
This message was last edited by the user at 06:58, Mon 01 Jan.

In reply to Lluis (msg # 80):

New feature, yes, about 15 years ago.  :p  And intended to prevent people quoting a whole page of text, just to reply, "Yes."

Correct that nothing has changed for a long time but I just loosened the requirements when using quoting.  About twice as generous as before, thrice for longer messages.

This may be a little bit frivolous, but would it be possible to have an option to move the menus to the other side of the screen, for left-handed people?

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 87):

Given that my request we be allowed to quote a single line of text was rejected as outrageously stupid and wholly unnecessary, I will be shocked if your request is honored. :)

You mean like this?

In reply to Locke1221 (msg # 89):

Yeah- that's the sort of smart-*ss dismissive response I got the first time around.

Well if that's not what you mean by quoting a single line of text, I don't know what you could mean, so good luck to you.

I think that the problem is that 1492's comment followed hard upon the comments above regarding length of quotes and Locke1221 responded accordingly, whereas 1492 was actually referring to a suggestion they'd made over in RPoL Development re quoting parts of a block of text which had evolved into a discussion around the usefulness of copying quotes (in part OR in full) from closed threads to clipboard (ie where they can't be inserted into a new post) - link to a message in another game

Though I might well have that confused as I didn't think that discussion had rounded up (useful clarifications & further suggestions, but I think it was still ongoing), there wasn't much in the way of votes (+/- 1) ... and I'm not reading anything in there to say that it was "rejected as outrageously stupid and wholly unnecessary" ... so as I say, I could be wrong about that.  :<

In reply to Skald (msg # 92):

Thanks for weighing in, Skald. It's a sensitive subject for me, but I previously said I would leave it alone, and I probably should have done so.

-------

@Locke1221 - I know full well that quoting a single line of text can be "achieved." What I'm talking about, and what I previously asked about, was the ability to "select" a portion of text to quote. Here's a quick example of where it would be a helpful feature...

In a game thread, Player A, Player B, and Player C each make a post suggesting the next course of action for the party. Let's say they're at a crossroads.

For a number of reasons, Player D decides that it would be a good idea to discuss the matter in an OOC thread, rather than the game thread, just as players might do around the table when trying to make an important group decision.

As the RPOL site is currently designed, how many steps would it take for Player D to quote a portion of all three posts made by Players A, B, and C, then offer a response in the OOC thread, examining the pros and cons, or addressing specific points each player may have made in their respective posts?

The answer to that question is, it would take 15 or more steps. Whereas, if a feature was installed that allowed the three lines to be quoted and then dumped into an OOC post, it would only take four steps.

When I tried to explain this issue previously, and to suggest a simple fix, I received several responses that implied it was stupid and unnecessary. Your comment seemed to echo that perspective. That's why I reacted poorly to it. I apologize for that.

Frankly, it doesn't matter at this point. If I'm the only person in the entire RPOL universe who thinks it's a problem that needs fixing, then I understand why the mods would deem it as unworthy of their time or attention. So everyone can just... carry on.

Happy New Year and best wishes.
This message was last edited by the user at 06:40, Sun 31 Dec 2023.

My issue is that why can't i roll the dice on the same page.  Dice roller is great but creating a post, submitting it then going back to roll the dice, copy and paste it in the OOC color or text.  Should be an easier way.

Simply - Roll first.  Then either copy in the new [roll=] links into your post or just react accordingly in the message (the GM can use the "rolls" link next to your character name in the post to view the rolls around that time, rolls within an hour of your post are highlighted).

I open dice roller in a separate tab, then switch back and forth while writing a post. There is no need to save the post first, then edit in the rolls.

Of course, I use desktop. That probably does not work as well on mobile.

It depends on your mobile browser in my experience, I use Firefox mobile and I haven’t noticed a difference. Safari though? Oof.

My biggest complaint is that pics are now bumped to the right of the screen if I'm not holding my phone sideways (which brings up its own set of mobility issues with assumptions of being able to hold phones sideways). I scan long threads for character posts by pic (not name), and since it isn't standard in Western countries to read right-to-left, the gap throws me off. If the height and width of the name block is going to remain the same regardless, why not lock the pic right beside the name?

In the grand scheme of things it's minor, but it's an annoyance in the midst of all the other changes.

In reply to Evil Empryss (msg # 98):

If we put it next to the name then it'll push down the rest of the character/post information and require more scrolling.  It also looks really odd.  We could put it all the way to the left but the character portrait is aesthetics and not important post information so I don't believe it should have "poll position".

I realise you're scanning threads in a very particular way that makes it the most important to you but sometimes we've got to realise we're doing thinks contrary to intents and, unless there's a suddenly influx of "I do this too!" posts (you're the first to mention this), the site unfortunately can't take a backward step because if it.

If the pic size doesn't change, if it's just set in a cell closer to the ID block, I'm not understanding how it would push anything further down. Granted, my level of coding knowledge is limited, so either I'm not describing something clearly or I'm completely lost on your explanation.

Quite possibly both.

But like I said, in the grand scheme of things it's minor. Growing pains of adapting to the changes suck, but I'm not about to throw a tantrum and quit the site.

I appreciate the direct reply, tho, most of all. Thanks, jase!

The "Last Visited" is missing from the Cast in the new ui.

This is a major piece of information that is now missing.

It's still available for GMs, but a successful argument was made that it could compromise a certain degree of anonymity amongst players in a game, so the decision was made to remove it from player view.

I would like to see this argument. Despite claims for anonymity, I assert that this information is valuable for players deciding if and when to post.

In reply to azzuri (msg # 103):

link to a message in another game

It's around msg#400 in the "New Sight Design" thread in the "RPoL Development" forum.

Fortunately, it looks like GMs can still see all the "last logged on" times, so you could just ask your GM if it's important to you at the time. A little clunky, but I've been stalked by another player, so I can personally appreciate it, even if I wasn't involved in the decision.

 yeah. That  last log in, is important  to me, because i have people from over the Globe, so its  good  for me to know if they will be able to response  .

I'll bite.  How is the last logon information even relevant to the decision to post, much less the timing of it?  I, for one, have NEVER looked at last logons before deciding whether to post, and even if I had, it would have had absolutely no impact on my choice of timing for it.  If I log on to the game and there's a post that appears to be wanting a reply from me, I post the reply.  If I can't do it immediately, I'll do it at my earliest convenience.

While I don't do it, there are a lot of things I do that I know many other players don't, and vice versa.  I'm curious as to how the last logon information impacts those decisions.

All the arguments for and against are over in the New site design thread in the RPoL Development forum, starting around msg #400, with more recent additions when the change was implemented (I noticed a mention around #651, may be more).

Please don't start the argument up again here !  There's strong views either way.   :>

In games with lots of players it is very helpful to have the last player login information. Many players in such games login but do not post right away. In fact, they may wait until another, or other players, posts.

In fact, in such games, particularly when there may be larger numbers of player characters posting together in that encounter, say five or ten, it comes down to some players waiting for others to post because they want to see what those others post first. That delays the encounter and the game.

I read from post #400 onward and didn't see any reasonable explanation why it might be harmful to GMs.

People were using it to break anonymity, one of the cornerstones of RPoL.

Additionally some games had some sort of completive subterfuge which required running multiple characters, members were noting the last login information to figure out which characters belonged to who, breaking the game entirely.

If all that's not enough (and what made the decision easy for me) is that in an attempt to protect anonymity I'd been obfuscating the last login information... or in other words the last login information was lying to your face.  The obfuscation routine was largely based on... last post.

So I realise you think you've lost something but all you've lost is a filthy lying cast list.

Your last line is inappropriate. You speak for yourself and the cheaters. I've been with RPoL for almost 20 years, have GMd games for well over 50,000 posts, and don't need to cheat to have a good time.

I can understand that anonymity may be good to foil certain others, however.
This message was last edited by the user at 02:40, Tue 09 Jan.

You misunderstand.  The cast list lied.  Last login was not accurate and was an obfuscation of last post.

And that was a fault of the old ui that couldn't be corrected? Ok.

Edit: Actually, I'ma leave this one alone. /backs away
This message was last edited by the user at 16:13, Wed 10 Jan.

In reply to azzuri (msg # 113):

No, not a fault of the old UI at all, it was a deliberately coded function of the old UI to help preserve anonymity (one of RPoL's features).  Since it wasn't actually a fault, there was nothing to correct.

Removing the last log in simply makes it so there was no need to obfuscate it any more - the site no longer automatically lies to the majority of its users.  If it was put back it would, once again, have to be inaccurate information.

The old UI based it on the last post (ie: it was a lie, and only accurate to one day since it didn't include an actual time - so if a player posted yesterday, but logged in today (without posting) the last log in would show as some time yesterday).

Note that GMs (ie: the people who might actually need the information) can still see the (accurate) last log in times by looking at the cast list, just the same as before.

There must have been some kind of a time limit on that, though? I vaguely recall checking in on old abandoned games (as a player) and seeing other players with relatively recent logins, even though their last posts were a year+ ago.

Just an observation from a long time user! I am NOT joining any arguments =P

There is nothing to argue. I said that the view helped me as a player. Evidently, it also helped people to cheat. It was "corrected". End of story.

After about a month of use, I have two recommendations.  My basic issue (primarily as a GM) is trying to determine what is new and needs to be responded to and what I have already responded to.

1.  The right column 'Thread Details' has tiny print all in one color except the Group.  To me, the most important thing in that column is who posted last.  After that, probably when and maybe the number of replies.  The Group and who posted originally in a game is far less important, to me.  It would be really helpful if we could change the text color for who posted last, which would tell me immediately at a glance if I have replied to something or not.  It would be interesting if the color could be set to depend on whether or not the character is controlled by the viewer, something that is already done elsewhere.  Ideally, being able to change the colors of each piece of that column would be useful if people care about highlighting different information.

2.  Notices don't really stand out as much to me.  It would be useful if we could adjust the font or background for notices relative to 'normal' messages to help them standout better.  Even just being able to change the color of Notice would be helpful.

3.  Side note, it took a lot of trial-and-error to determine what all of the different settings changed.  Not sure if there is some graphic way to show what corresponds with what?  Like a page with hover-over text or right-clicking an item to be able to show what setting it is?

Thanks for all of the hard work on this.  :)

One thing I would love to change for mobile formatting is the location of the preview button and post message button. I personally rarely preview things, and having to nudge the screen down a few notches to get to Post Message is pretty annoying (1st world problems, I know...)

In reply to IkeEsq (msg # 118):

Ahh, I now understand what you're talking about. I haven't personally felt that the print is tiny, but I do wear glasses so maybe it makes it easier for me.

Being able to customise the colour of the particular aspects of the thread details might not be that bad of an idea. I like it!

I'm currently experimenting with Zoom settings ... I find that with Zoom at 110% I can read the right hand side thread details a lot more easily (and I do wear reading glasses anyway).  Lose three lines of text in terms of height, but the increase in width just eats up some of the spare white space left and right.

Has anyone brought up that "Looking for Players" needs to have a much more pronounced and larger font making it clearer who the GM is and what system is being played?

So, one thing I've noticed tonight, as it's the first time since the changeover that I've really poked around using my phone instead of my laptop (which I definitely prefer...)

The entire right hand column doesn't appear on my phone.  I didn't even notice until I saw I had a PM notification in one game and, instead of my usual procedure of clicking on the game title and then "Private Messages" in the right-hand column, I had to click on the NMI on the Home Screen to get to PMs.  And then I couldn't get from PMs to the Game Menu...I had to go back to the Home Menu and click on the game title to get back to the game menu.  I can't "Mark All As Read" in a forum to clear threads that I'm not interested in reading, or any of the other functions that normall appear over there.

I'm on a Samsung Galaxy S21 running the latest version of Chrome, for what that's worth.  It's not crippling...but it IS highly inconvenient.

I'm hoping your problem is the same as the one which SunRuanEr kindly cleared up for me (since I never access RPoL on a mobile) ... :>

On a mobile there isn't a sidebar on the right hand side, it uses drop down menus instead:

Thank you, yes, that actually does address the issue.  I even vaguely remember reading it, although one of the downsides of accessing RPOL primarily while I'm at work is that sometimes, work demands my attention and what I just read doesn't really get a chance to sink it properly (plus, at the time I read it, I hadn't tried accessing from a mobile device and therefore, lacked context to really anchor it properly in my memory.)

I figured it was likely something that I was overlooking...too many people had said too many things about this being a better option for mobile devices, I couldn't believe that the navigation options would have been omitted.  As is often the case, it's a matter of "operator error"...*grin*

Is anybody else experiencing that the "First" link in the  [ first | last ]   links after every thread title is taking them to the last post in the thread instead of the first post?
This message was last edited by the user at 21:09, Wed 17 Jan.

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 126):

Yes.  It takes you to the last post on the first page.

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 126):

Was wondering if was my imagination, thanks for giving me the push to check (and it's not!).  Will be fixed in the next version.

Is there a way to increase the size of the website? Each post inside a thread is squished, making long posts or information be warped and forcing me to scroll down. I have a ultra wide monitor and the website is still forced at this squished portrait sized format.

This is very unintuitive especially for long posters who roleplay a ton of details in their posts and it just makes readers scroll down alot.

If you go into the custom themes settings, there's an option to increase the maximum page width. Crank that all the way up, and it should help!

As jase mentioned up above (msg #73), modern design standards limit the width of text which according to those who know about such things actually makes it easier to read - something about being able to see the whole line without turning your head side to side or making your eyes constantly refocus (as I understand it, field of focus is quite narrow, the rest is peripheral) ... so while you're scrolling you're saving your neck/eye muscles.

On a whim, I just compared the RPoL layout to the main online news site I favour (govt. owned, not commercial), and RPoL is still a little wider than that.

I have to say I used to like the text wider too, with a preference for squeezing as much on a page as possible ... BUT I have to confess I'm not only getting used to it, but I'm now at the point where I don't even think about it anymore, yay for me !  :P

I wonder how much of that 'modern design standards' is based on anything scientific? I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the 80 character width is simply a legacy of old computers...I believe punch cards and IBM mainframe terminals were both limited to 80 columns!! Coincidence?

I worked on a mainframe terminal for many years (Federal government) and even when the 3070 terminals were replaced with PCs running an emulator, that 80 column width was still there.

From when I took some ancient web design courses and worked on static pages (late 90's/early 00's) I recall that common web design was to reduce the width of the content, not to save your peripheral vision but because the web users would not read, they would only scan. Even when they needed details they would not focus as they would if reading a paper copy. So web content became short, lots of headings, and IMO helped create a new generation of people who probably couldn't sit and read a book if their life depended on it!!

End of curmudgeonly rant!

US Govt web design standards for typography say 45-90 with 66 as a good target.  https://designsystem.digital.g...mponents/typography/.  One hopes they don't just make it up as they go along !  Though 66 characters is still less than the 80 columns we started out with ... and that would have been mono-spaced back in our day !  :>

We had a similar problem - we were told that if the email was too long management wouldn't read it.  Which makes it difficult when you're trying to discuss legal technicalities (and this from a programming perspective).  But we got around that by putting a brief summary of the problem up top followed by our recommendation ... then finally we got to the background section which was the entire body of the issue (discussion, limitations, pros and cons etc) - that way management only saw problem and our recommended solution before their eyes glazed over.  We didn't get many knockbacks ! <ROFL>

I think it's a similar principle with big TV screens - the ideal size is based on your sitting distance from the screen but factoring in that you shouldn't have to move your head to take in everything that's happening.   I guess the front row in the cinema isn't the best spot then !
This message was last edited by the user at 04:43, Fri 09 Feb.

No, the middle rows are. The back is too far back, and you lose detail. Even

Thanks this really helped.

Is there a way to change the color of the "Notice" Threads? they are the same color as the normal threads so they just all blend in together.

Glad to have helped!

Currently, no, there's no way to change the color of the Notice threads. It's been suggested, however.

In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 136):

Is the custom portraits only limited to 20? as a gm with dozens of players and npcs, this isnt enough xD

For right now, yes, GMs can only put in 20 custom portraits.

However - good news everybody! - portrait submissions ARE back and running again, which should help to lighten that load if you and your players are all submitting portraits (assuming you need new ones put in - there are a *LOT* of great portraits already in existence.)

Yeah my groups also enjoy being able to have how they see their character as a icon. I am happy with 20 because before it was none.

I would love to have the ability for everyone to see group's again, because my players want to look to see who's in their group when we do group missions or party splits to accomplish things on a bigger front.

The ability for players to see Group was removed because - while some people would use that knowledge for good, as you suggest, silverelf - others were using the OOC knowledge of who had access to what to metagame.

If you would like your players to be able to see it, you could always post up a Notice thread in your game that listed off the Groups you're using and the members of each.

Yeah that's what I have been doing or using the tag to note them so players can see. I am unsure how you can meta game a group but then I really only run Pathfinder/DnD stuff where it wouldn't matter.  Thanks for the heads up though. Still gonna miss that feature .

I think a lot of the stuff that got removed completely, we'd have been better off giving GMs to option to keep or remove for their individual games, via their game settings.

Just one example, but if you happened to have a sub-group of PCs that infiltrated a greater group of PCs (like a group of Harpers, for instance, using your game setting of choice), and those PCs were in a Group of their own (in order to see their own Harper-related threads), savvy players have in the past looked down the cast list and said 'Hey, why are these three characters all in a Group together that I'm not in?' and then started looking for connections where they otherwise wouldn't have done so.

But, as you said, it's an easy workaround if you have a game where you -want- those things to be seen, to make them visible. :)

Yeah, I have a small group of trusted people I rp with so they aren't trying to find cracks in the armor or anything. XD. IC knowledge is different from OOC knowledge and vice versa.  For mine they would know when suddenly some one that they didn't know well has been added to the game! Though that is totally fair. My group also have private threads so there are groups others aren't in since characters interact privately as well as publicly. For research, because thye are married, working on things etc.

Yep, I have a work around it just means I can't list them by class tag I will figure it out, its new and shiny and I am an old rp gal, got to learn new tricks.

In reply to Dream Sequence (msg # 142):

Agreed, but Jase was opposed to the idea of putting certain features of the old site which were removed for the new site under the purview of GMs.

I don't recall if he explicitly shot down each item/feature but I'd asked about that option for something or another and the response was a negative.

I would love an on-off options for some of the old things.

I can't think of anything that was removed except for Last Login (which jase already said would not become a GM toggle because it's an anonymity issue and GMs don't get to take it upon themselves to break players' anonymity), and Groups...

(I might be missing something. It's been a long time since I made the switch, so there's probably some things I have forgotten because they weren't ultimately important.)

...but in the case of Groups, since it's what we've been most-recently discussing, there's an aspect of the GM choosing to hide Groups from player view (if it were to become a toggle) that then still serves as a red flag to the players to be suspicious and look for things where they otherwise wouldn't. (The 'They wouldn't be hiding this if there wasn't something to hide!' mentality...) Assuming, of course, that the players know that it's a GM-toggle...but that's not hard to figure out as soon as someone asks.

Red-flagging your players to be suspicious for things/jealous of things is why folks were asking for Groups to be hidden from players in the first place. Seems like it would defeat the purpose to replace that red flag with a -different- red flag.

/shrug

There's plenty of things that some GMs do that others don't, which could be "red flags" to players looking to gain access to information that the GM doesn't want them to have for the sake of the story being told.

At some point there has to be the concession that either everyone in a game is willing to go along for the ride that's being provided with all the particulars chosen to be put in place, or they're not.

Giving the GM who wants to turn their game into a black box for the sake of the style of game they are running a perfect environment for doing so is all well and good, but not every game is that style, and I'd be curious as to what percentage actually are where the defaults on the old site hampered the experience.

The last login thing is also kind of silly as according to Jase it never actually worked, so anyone who was using it to glean potentially secret game information was apparently flying blind and just getting lucky.  A GM is already capable of choosing to break player anonymity in any number of ways if they choose to do so therefore an on/off toggle for a feature that was mainly helpful for guestimates about general absences doesn't seem like it would be the primary make or break tool for such things.

Though I believe the login tracking was also mentioned as being a tool for harassment.  I'm not sure how rampant that issue is on RPoL, but if the changes have significantly tamped down on that issue, then I suppose it is all for the better and those who found the features useful will just have to get by.

As a player, I really miss the Last Login thing, even if it was inaccurate.
I'm not one to try and dominate the game, and if the characters are in a social situation and I've already posted, I frequently hold off posting further until the other players have had a chance to. I'd look a the Last Login data and if others had logged in but not posted, I could read that as their characters not wanting to take an action and feel okay about posting again.

And in one particular game, I used it to confirm my growing suspicion that I was the only player and all the other characters were actually run by the GM; which rather annoyed me as the GM in question had led me to believe otherwise.

NB Before any of my former GMs shout at me; this game died a while back and is no longer active so it's probably not you :)

Thought the lack of privacy in posting private messages was a glitch, turns out it's a "new improved" feature...really hate that, hate not being able to easily see when a last IC post was (and not at all from my ancient iPad, which doesn't tap-or-hover show times at all), and when not running the show, hate not being able to see fellow players' rough login times without what they're doing.

It affects how long I wait for someone else to get a word in, slowing down games since I can't tell 'busy' from 'gone', whether I put a quick OOC explanation for an edit in case a post had been seen in its original state by someone passing through who didn't have immediate time to post, and often whether other players were looking in on an inactive game and there was hope for a revival should the GM reappear without actively bothering said players/raising false hopes by posting and making the game light up.

I'd be amazed if any theoretical harasser needed login days to memorise someone's posting schedule, or how the toady effect of seeing who's posting PMs could possibly help, but maybe it's harassment of a type I haven't met in game types I don't frequent. The present solution really does have a negative impact on the types I do, however. Probably too much work to confine the present arrangement to Adult, freeforms or 8+ player games or wherever the issue is, but it'd be nice if 'conceal passing, reveal private posts' was a feature that only turned on for where it's apparently needed and those of us not given to harassment weren't having "I'm secretly conferring with ____!' out there to behold.

With all due respect, there are a whole slew of reasons to be posting in PMs other than just 'I'm secretly plotting against everyone else'.

Many games run full IC scenes in PMs (with the limited number of groups, it's more efficient if the scene only contains a small number of players). GMs confer with players while building characters, and regularly answer questions. People just plain chat with each other (which is no different than in the OOC, just private).

All of those things confer 'activity' within the game. Activity is what's bring tracked by revealing 'Last Post'. Active players/GMs are posting - regardless of where they're posting. Those that aren't, aren't active.

  I don't understand this.  now? as a GM. i can see the 'time" of the last post. this helps me, because if  i'm ready to go to sleep, and i know  one of  my  'actives ' has    logged on . i may  wait for a post from them, or  make a post i might have made later.

 in games where i am not  GM.. i get the 'date' of last log  on.  with the 'light up" of threads you can figure  when/if the player is a round.

 PMs?  None of your business. as a GM  I have dice rolls sent to me, sometimes if there  are several reasons  i'll have  in the OOC thread  and/or  PMs.

 over the last score or so of years, I did have  players  PM me because of  a  weird player who thought its a good thing to   Harass them.. That  permits  me  to step on the weird player, or cut  that player outright, if it was bad  enough.

 If  the PMs  are game related... its  even less your business, as  the GM   feels you shouldn't  know

 Even at my age,I still play pick up  football ,every Sunday Morning, all year round.  the QB  doesn't tell the Defense where his guys  are  going to run their patterns..

 Paranoid  feelings can ruin a game, if you have such feelings? it may be better to  go to another game...Mystery , no matter what type of game you are in, is a big part of playing .

 Now? having said all that. if you are in a game, where you feel you are being Mistreated?  walk away. No one here is getting  paid to play or  run a game. So find a place where you are happy.

And as jase has said, the Last Login timestamp was being deliberately obfuscated - ie it wasn't actually accurate - so not something that could be relied upon anyway.

Would it be possible to get Last Login enabled and accurate(ish)?

It was removed on purpose, because it could be used to link characters to the same user (however obfuscated it was, it wasn't obfuscated enough). Odds of it being re-enabled, especially with 100% accuracy, are slim.

 I ha d a  lady player, who joined one of my games, that wanted to make sure a certain layer  was in the  game, because she 'followed' by him across  several games. i didn't have him in any of my games.

It's hard to believe that stalking exists, but it happens. I once had a player that'd constantly watch the dice roller logs to see when another player was active and would start PMing them. They'd mistook being friendly as now being their one romantic interest.

As both GM and player, I have seen how certain players will change their attitudes once a player is revealed to be playing x character based on their likes or dislikes of the player and not the actual character. Social bias kicks into to full gear and you get complete 180 degree changes - friendly becomes hostile or vice versa, or the player will suddenly quit the game because of an experience in another game. Mind you, that usually means all GM investment of time and effort have been thrown out the window. I don't appreciate having my time wasted for things outside my control.

Not having methods to pinpoint who is controlling what is ideal. RPoL grants you one user persona, but an unlimited number of 'character' personas within the game. That last login was a method to identify roughly who controlled what, especially in longer running games where it could be days between posts and various players would check in.

As a GM, I absolutely want to know who is logging in since I already know who controls what. If someone doesn't log in for a month, you can pretty much assume they've wandered away (whatever the reason remains unknown).

Each game will have it's own social behavior rules. I *try* (and sometimes fail, because we're all human) to adhere to a posting schedule of twice a week. For PC conversations, that can be more or less, depends. As a general rule, I allow for players to reply to a game post within 3 days before moving the scene forward. Again, each game will be run differently by each GM and their own preferences.

Heck, one aspect that boils my blood is the fact I (as a GM) can't lock character descriptions. It's a public facing aspect that we get no notifications for updates (no last changed anywhere) and yet, the expectation is to be checked often... Don't get me wrong, I love the description, it has a ton of uses, but if I'm responsible for it, let me have the control and update notifications!

I agree entirely! That GMs don't have a lock/unlock option for descriptions feels a little wonky.

That said, I'd settle for the game notifying me that <X Character> has had their description edited, so that I know to check it. That'd be kind of cool, actually...maybe have it highlight the character name in a color? /runs off to Development

  when i accept a new  player. They need to have a  SHORT... history in the CS,.. and a  description ...now... for the description that other people see. They are only permitted to   say 'what people see  and feel from you as  you meet them"..everythig esle  comes out  in IC posts.

 so?  if you are a  dark , gloomy  warrior  with a heart of gold?  They only see that Gloomy warriors... and through RP, they'll learn  if you are a  'hearet of gold'  guy

Locking descriptions (exactly the same way we can lock character sheets) I could definitely get on board with ... if someone would like to put up a proposal for that over in RPoL Development.  :>


Edit: you already went there. ;>
This message was last edited by the user at 04:49, Tue 27 Feb.